BOE Surge Tank- Cure for Fuel Starve - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
 
LotusTalk.com is the premier Lotus Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-19-2009, 08:30 PM   #1 (permalink)
Plug Whisperer
 
turbophil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kansas City/ Overland Park
Posts: 4,922
Images: 6
BOE Surge Tank- Cure for Fuel Starve

We've made several of these little guys on a custom basis now and have been adding them to our TVS supercharger kit for a while as well.

They've been so popular that I thought I'd formally announce that they're for sale.

The kit is extremely labor intensive to make and there's a lot of parts that goes with this little kit and it could be the very thing to save your engine-- ESPECIALLY if you have forced induction. We do all the machining, fabrication, welding, etc right here in the shop

Here's a link to where it can be purchased, BOEFabrication.com | Beyond Original Equipment . Due to the nature of the beast, we will only carry a small inventory of this kit, so most will be made to order. Please allow 2 weeks for shipping... There's some more information about the kit in my "shop log" thread and quite a bit on my webpage...

Let me know if you have any questions.

Best,

Phil
Attached Images
 
__________________
2011 Pearl White Evora, BOE Skunk Works | 2005 GG Elige, Rev400, NASA 2012 Central TTU Champion 400+whp | 2005 GG Elise, Rev310, Street Car | 2006 CO Elise, Rev300, Steet Car

www.boefab.com: Lotus Performance Engineering and Service Specialists

BOE ClamHinge | BOE TVS SuperCharging, The Most Powerful Track-Worthy Forced Induction | EFI Engine Management | BOE The Essential Fuel Starve Solution| BOE Lotus Tow Package| BOE New-Tech Lotus Race Engines | The Right Oil Filter for Your Lotus | Custom Lotus ECU Tuning


Engineering & Innovation by Lotus People For Lotus People
Somethin ain't worth do'n, if it ain't worth do'n right
turbophil is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 04-19-2009, 08:53 PM   #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Dragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Okinawa Japan
Posts: 1,832
Images: 2
Saw these in production today on my way down to Texas...

You need to post a pic of the o-ring seal between the can and the cover.
Dragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2009, 09:00 PM   #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
robains's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: CA, Bay Area
Posts: 3,725
All the parts in this kit are top quality, the mount system is genius. Wish this kit had been available back in mid 2008 - would have saved Engine #1 (or at the very least made it last longer).

Rob.
__________________
"For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan
robains is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2009, 09:46 PM   #4 (permalink)
Registered User
 
carlover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bristol, TN
Posts: 1,380
Quote:
Originally Posted by robains View Post
All the parts in this kit are top quality, the mount system is genius. Wish this kit had been available back in mid 2008 - would have saved Engine #1 (or at the very least made it last longer).

Rob.
How would a fuel starvation cure have saved your engine?
__________________
Check the VIN of the Lotus you're considering buying

http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f3/h...hl30039-66280/
carlover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2009, 10:04 PM   #5 (permalink)
kaz
Registered User
 
kaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Downtown LA
Posts: 2,863
Fuel starvation has leaned out and killed many, many engines under load at the track.
__________________
2006 Elise : JFG | Nitrons | 2bular 8" Single | IMRP aero | TWRD carbon | K20/24 NA | DRS EFI/Cosworth dash and tuning
kaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2009, 12:08 AM   #6 (permalink)
Registered User
 
ZJChaser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Laguna Hills, CA
Posts: 3,519
Phil,
"As many Lotus track enthusiasts know, the Elise/Exige suffers from fuel starve on high G right handers." - from you website

just a tip. I dont know anyone that had starvation in right handers until the tanks were empty.
__________________
rightseatdriver.
ZJChaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2009, 03:52 AM   #7 (permalink)
Plug Whisperer
 
turbophil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kansas City/ Overland Park
Posts: 4,922
Images: 6
Doh, my bad. Left handers. That's what I get for writing after my bedtime . Thanks for catching the typo, Z

Best,

Phil
__________________
2011 Pearl White Evora, BOE Skunk Works | 2005 GG Elige, Rev400, NASA 2012 Central TTU Champion 400+whp | 2005 GG Elise, Rev310, Street Car | 2006 CO Elise, Rev300, Steet Car

www.boefab.com: Lotus Performance Engineering and Service Specialists

BOE ClamHinge | BOE TVS SuperCharging, The Most Powerful Track-Worthy Forced Induction | EFI Engine Management | BOE The Essential Fuel Starve Solution| BOE Lotus Tow Package| BOE New-Tech Lotus Race Engines | The Right Oil Filter for Your Lotus | Custom Lotus ECU Tuning


Engineering & Innovation by Lotus People For Lotus People
Somethin ain't worth do'n, if it ain't worth do'n right

Last edited by turbophil; 04-20-2009 at 06:44 AM.
turbophil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2009, 06:59 AM   #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
robains's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: CA, Bay Area
Posts: 3,725
Per Kaz, I know a few folks that have lost motors because of the fuel starve problem. Motor goes lean, more heat, detonation, followed by death. This happened to me with a FULL tank of fuel at Turn 2 left hander at Thunderhill -- I thought I'd be safe if I just kept fuel topped up -- I was wrong.

I've also added a fuel pressure sensor (Phil's kit has a port for it) that is now integrated into my EFi ECU and IQ3 dash. So any possibility (threshold I set) of fuel pressure degredation and the motor will go into limp home mode or shutdown. So if any one of my two fuel pumps fail or becomes flakey, I'll at least save the motor.

People have reported fuel starve with just "aggressive" street driving on twisty canyon roads. It's a BIG problem, and Phil's solution works and is considerably less expensive than alternative solutions.

Rob
__________________
"For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan

Last edited by robains; 04-20-2009 at 07:08 AM.
robains is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2009, 07:02 AM   #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
MaineLotus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Maine
Posts: 1,913
How can it fuel starve with a full tank? I thought it would be safe @ full, maybe not.
__________________
My car is modified.
MaineLotus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2009, 07:26 AM   #10 (permalink)
Plug Whisperer
 
turbophil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kansas City/ Overland Park
Posts: 4,922
Images: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon View Post
Saw these in production today on my way down to Texas...

You need to post a pic of the o-ring seal between the can and the cover.
Great meeting you Dragon! Talk about some good karma with you stopping by when you did! This was bizarre. Dragon just happened to be driving from Iowa to Texas this weekend. He dropped by my shop, just south of KC, on his way south around 7:15AM Sunday morning and I just happened to be out there working. I see this guy pull up at such an odd hour and I'm thinking Turns out it was Dragon, who I've only met through LT (He lives in Japan afterall) The stars had to be perfectly aligned early yesterday morning, and I'm gald they were

Carlover, I Think Rob determined that he went lean after a lefter--fuel starve...

I lost my engine in a similar situation, which is why I built this. Last October, I was pushing hard at the end of a nice cool day (low on fuel) playing cat and mouse with a Cup255 car. We have a big left hand carousel that sustains several seconds excess of a G side load. My car would always fuel starve and putter 2/3s of the way through that sweeper with anything much less than a full tank it seemed. I would instantly lift on the throttle to thwart off detonation when I felt the "putter". Data logs show 15+ AFR. The time my engine let loose, in the spirit of keeping pace with the car in front of me, I foolishly decided to push the engine through the "putter" just one time.LOL- one time... That was the end of that engine. In retrospec, it was a dumb thing to do, but I'm glad it happeneed when it did. The fragmented piston parts ended up killing my M62 blower (the piston went up the intake path and into the blower) and it was the last run of the year, so I had winter to rebuild. The trashed M62 blower was my impetus to start the TVS project. I tend to see problems like above as opportunities to make things better rather than get PO'ed Everyone at the track was surprised that I didn't utter a singal 4 letter word when it happened. I just grinned as thoughts of the rebuild came to mind

So that said, despite having a stack of TVS blowers in the shop, I just assume not fuel starve this engine and trash my expensive TVS that's on it now... If my little contraption can help save someone elses engine, then great. Short of buying a new race oriented fuel cell from Lotus (BIG $$$$) or building your own correctly baffled "race tank" (I think Brent is making one for his car), a surge tank or swirl pot is about the only way to really cure the problem. It's comparably cheaper, upgrades the remaining portion of the fuel system (adj FPR and 255 pump), and it's something most folks can install on a Sunday afternoon. I ran my car near empty on the last two track days with no puttering from lean fuel starve spikes at all.

Best,

Phil
__________________
2011 Pearl White Evora, BOE Skunk Works | 2005 GG Elige, Rev400, NASA 2012 Central TTU Champion 400+whp | 2005 GG Elise, Rev310, Street Car | 2006 CO Elise, Rev300, Steet Car

www.boefab.com: Lotus Performance Engineering and Service Specialists

BOE ClamHinge | BOE TVS SuperCharging, The Most Powerful Track-Worthy Forced Induction | EFI Engine Management | BOE The Essential Fuel Starve Solution| BOE Lotus Tow Package| BOE New-Tech Lotus Race Engines | The Right Oil Filter for Your Lotus | Custom Lotus ECU Tuning


Engineering & Innovation by Lotus People For Lotus People
Somethin ain't worth do'n, if it ain't worth do'n right
turbophil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2009, 08:04 AM   #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Brent Bauman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tustin Ranch, Ca
Posts: 1,116
Quote:
Short of buying a new race oriented fuel cell from Lotus (BIG $$$$) or building your own correctly baffled "race tank" (I think Brent is making one for his car
Phil, I've had fuelcells built for myself and several friends, not tanks, FIA 3. No added complexity, added safety, saves 20lbs, increased capacity, and they can be run to less than a gallon before fuel starve. Just wanted to clarify.
Brent Bauman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2009, 08:11 AM   #12 (permalink)
Plug Whisperer
 
turbophil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kansas City/ Overland Park
Posts: 4,922
Images: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Bauman View Post
Phil, I've had fuelcells built for myself and several friends, not tanks, FIA 3. No added complexity, added safety, saves 20lbs, increased capacity, and they can be run to less than a gallon before fuel starve. Just wanted to clarify.
Hey Brent, my mistake
__________________
2011 Pearl White Evora, BOE Skunk Works | 2005 GG Elige, Rev400, NASA 2012 Central TTU Champion 400+whp | 2005 GG Elise, Rev310, Street Car | 2006 CO Elise, Rev300, Steet Car

www.boefab.com: Lotus Performance Engineering and Service Specialists

BOE ClamHinge | BOE TVS SuperCharging, The Most Powerful Track-Worthy Forced Induction | EFI Engine Management | BOE The Essential Fuel Starve Solution| BOE Lotus Tow Package| BOE New-Tech Lotus Race Engines | The Right Oil Filter for Your Lotus | Custom Lotus ECU Tuning


Engineering & Innovation by Lotus People For Lotus People
Somethin ain't worth do'n, if it ain't worth do'n right
turbophil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2009, 08:55 AM   #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
robains's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: CA, Bay Area
Posts: 3,725
Brent,

What was the cost? I looked into fuel cell solution and all said and done it was gonna be close to $2000 with 255 walbro (parts and welding labor and I'd do install) and wasn't "simple" from a installation point of view. But I agree a fuel cell is safer, even more so if one plans to race door to door.

John,

Wasn't safe for me at a full tank (on Hoosiers).

Rob
__________________
"For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan

Last edited by robains; 04-20-2009 at 12:19 PM.
robains is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2009, 10:53 AM   #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
ZJChaser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Laguna Hills, CA
Posts: 3,519
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Bauman View Post
Phil, I've had fuelcells built for myself and several friends, not tanks, FIA 3. No added complexity, added safety, saves 20lbs, increased capacity, and they can be run to less than a gallon before fuel starve. Just wanted to clarify.
__________________
rightseatdriver.
ZJChaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2009, 12:11 PM   #15 (permalink)
kaz
Registered User
 
kaz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Downtown LA
Posts: 2,863
OT

Brent, the fuel cells...16? 17? gallons?
__________________
2006 Elise : JFG | Nitrons | 2bular 8" Single | IMRP aero | TWRD carbon | K20/24 NA | DRS EFI/Cosworth dash and tuning
kaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2009, 09:43 PM   #16 (permalink)
Plug Whisperer
 
turbophil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kansas City/ Overland Park
Posts: 4,922
Images: 6
We have shipped a bunch of surge tanks out now and the results have been great. It's been so popular that we spent some more time refining the setup.

Gone are the bolt on connections that travel through the lid. Replaced with a special o-ring wire connection that is designed for fuel tanks. Also have replaced the connections with easy to connect/disconnect deutsch connectors. It took quite a bit of work to get to this point, but I think these improvements are nice progress steps for an already tried and trued system...

The kit still comes with high quality adjustable fuel pressure regulator to work with your stock or aftermarket tune. Also has the high output Walbro 255lph fuel pump, a fuel pressure gauge, and finally a gross of AN fittings to get the fuel from A to B

Here's updated pics of the tank...

Best,

Phil
Attached Images
   
__________________
2011 Pearl White Evora, BOE Skunk Works | 2005 GG Elige, Rev400, NASA 2012 Central TTU Champion 400+whp | 2005 GG Elise, Rev310, Street Car | 2006 CO Elise, Rev300, Steet Car

www.boefab.com: Lotus Performance Engineering and Service Specialists

BOE ClamHinge | BOE TVS SuperCharging, The Most Powerful Track-Worthy Forced Induction | EFI Engine Management | BOE The Essential Fuel Starve Solution| BOE Lotus Tow Package| BOE New-Tech Lotus Race Engines | The Right Oil Filter for Your Lotus | Custom Lotus ECU Tuning


Engineering & Innovation by Lotus People For Lotus People
Somethin ain't worth do'n, if it ain't worth do'n right
turbophil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2009, 10:05 PM   #17 (permalink)
Registered User
 
robains's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: CA, Bay Area
Posts: 3,725
That's a great update Phil -- I ended up putting some heat shrink on the old style plus/minus terminals for safety. But this new solution is even better.

BTW, only got two session at Infineon, but I ran the tank down to 0.2 gallons without any issues (settled it was probably 2 gallons) .. Turn 6 at infineon (long left hander with a ton on compression) is a great test of fuel delivery solutions. Car didn't miss a beat and AFR was rock solid.

Rob.
__________________
"For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan
robains is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2009, 10:49 PM   #18 (permalink)
Plug Whisperer
 
turbophil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kansas City/ Overland Park
Posts: 4,922
Images: 6
Glad to hear it Rob!

A couple pics of the new tank mounted up...
Attached Images
  
__________________
2011 Pearl White Evora, BOE Skunk Works | 2005 GG Elige, Rev400, NASA 2012 Central TTU Champion 400+whp | 2005 GG Elise, Rev310, Street Car | 2006 CO Elise, Rev300, Steet Car

www.boefab.com: Lotus Performance Engineering and Service Specialists

BOE ClamHinge | BOE TVS SuperCharging, The Most Powerful Track-Worthy Forced Induction | EFI Engine Management | BOE The Essential Fuel Starve Solution| BOE Lotus Tow Package| BOE New-Tech Lotus Race Engines | The Right Oil Filter for Your Lotus | Custom Lotus ECU Tuning


Engineering & Innovation by Lotus People For Lotus People
Somethin ain't worth do'n, if it ain't worth do'n right
turbophil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2009, 11:08 PM   #19 (permalink)
Registered User
 
sleepe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,252
I have a Walbro 255 in the oem tank already. Can I use the oem pump in your surge tank instead?

I have the VF2 kit.

What is the approximate weight of everything, minus the regulator.
-Robert
__________________
2006 Elise ST
2008 Exige S240 ST

Last edited by sleepe; 07-08-2009 at 11:13 PM.
sleepe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2009, 11:21 PM   #20 (permalink)
Plug Whisperer
 
turbophil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kansas City/ Overland Park
Posts: 4,922
Images: 6
You could, but you'd be limited to the capacity of the OEM pump in the surge tank. The pump in the surge tank is the one that pressurizes the system. The pump in the fuel tank is just a lift pump. So in your case, you'd want us to install the standard 255lph pump in the surge tank... I believe the system weighs about 5-7lbs all in...

Best,

Phil
__________________
2011 Pearl White Evora, BOE Skunk Works | 2005 GG Elige, Rev400, NASA 2012 Central TTU Champion 400+whp | 2005 GG Elise, Rev310, Street Car | 2006 CO Elise, Rev300, Steet Car

www.boefab.com: Lotus Performance Engineering and Service Specialists

BOE ClamHinge | BOE TVS SuperCharging, The Most Powerful Track-Worthy Forced Induction | EFI Engine Management | BOE The Essential Fuel Starve Solution| BOE Lotus Tow Package| BOE New-Tech Lotus Race Engines | The Right Oil Filter for Your Lotus | Custom Lotus ECU Tuning


Engineering & Innovation by Lotus People For Lotus People
Somethin ain't worth do'n, if it ain't worth do'n right
turbophil is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community > Marketplace > Aftermarket Suppliers



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 08:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2
Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.