EVise/EVige poll

[e jet]

Survey: If an electric Elise or Exige were available with the following specifications, how interested would you be as a purchaser?

- A version of the same electric drivetrain that the Tesla roadster's is licensed from (AC Propulsion AC-150), but air-cooled rather than water-cooled

- Same power characteristics as the Tesla, 0-60 in 4.1 seconds with launch control, but single speed drive, hence a top speed of 95 mph

- Range between charges 120 miles (smaller pack than Tesla, different batteries)

- Half the time-to-full-charge of a Tesla

- Empty weight 2150 lbs (several hundred pounds lighter than Tesla, due to absence of pack weight, transmission, and fripperies)

- Driver-controllable variable regen (not included in Tesla)

- No cosmetic modifications to Elise/Exige body

- Price $45k + donor car ($75k out the door if based on an '05 Elise), or if based on a new Elise, $90k

TRADE-OFF: Lower weight, lower price, lower charging time, faster 0-60, no ugly Tesla body style, trackable... versus lower range, lower top speed, less attempt at luxury.

Thanks for participating!

[MattG]

Interested, though at that price would be tough for me to justify. I like the specs, my one concern/question would be air cooling rather than water cooling and what impact that would have on safety and reliability? Or is that an option just because different batteries are being used?

I think the 95mph top speed, with the tradeoff being no transmission, makes a lot of sense and suits the EV philosophy well.

[Randy Chase]

Interested!

[mopho]

I am all for a fun to drive electric commuter car, but for a sports car that is for the most part a toy with very little practicality, no thank you.
The noise of an engine and rowing through the gears is half the fun.

[e jet]

Originally Posted by MattG

Interested, though at that price would be tough for me to justify. I like the specs, my one concern/question would be air cooling rather than water cooling and what impact that would have on safety and reliability? Or is that an option just because different batteries are being used?

I think the 95mph top speed, with the tradeoff being no transmission, makes a lot of sense and suits the EV philosophy well.

Air cooling is possible because the large side vents of the basic Elise/Exige design would be used, and the smaller pack allows much more volume for air flow for thermal management. Air cooling is much simpler. No effect on safety or reliability, although there would likely be a maximum ambient temperature limitation. I don't know about you, but for me the Elise already has a maximum ambient temp limitation: me! (thanks to the pitiful a/c)

[Bavarian Motorist]

I would want 2 gears 95 MPH is great for a commuter car, but not for a real sports car

[e jet]

To clarify variable regen:
Variable regen is a performance driving feature. Most if not all road EV's and hybrids (including the Tesla, Insight, Prius, etc.) have regeneration fixed at some level, usually low, for liability among other reasons. Regeneration can be thought of as "engine braking" - as the driver lifts off the accelerator, the drive motor functions as a generator and a braking force results. For a performance car, high regen means you can get by with much lighter and smaller brake rotors, reducing unsprung mass - or reduce the wear and heat load into the existing rotors. High regen also increases your range. On the other hand, the braking force is applied only through the drive wheels, so in a rear wheel drive car like the Elise, in a turn too high a regen can be spectacular. Not that you want to lift "throttle" anyway. With a competent driver, a variable regen control lets the driver tailor the "engine braking" to the road or track ahead.

You could have a computer-controlled regen that would blend regen braking with brake braking, sensing lateral g's - but then you'd have the equivalent of a Nissan GT-R. Where's the fun in that?

[e jet]

Originally Posted by mopho

I am all for a fun to drive electric commuter car, but for a sports car that is for the most part a toy with very little practicality, no thank you.
The noise of an engine and rowing through the gears is half the fun.

Think of it as a performance sailplane compared to a jet. Both are fun. Just in different ways.

To me, the absence of engine noise lets your senses concentrate more fully on the dynamics of the car. You don't just feel the road, you hear the road. YMMV.

[codymac]

I'd rather take a knitting class.

[mopho]

Originally Posted by e jet

Think of it as a performance sailplane compared to a jet. Both are fun. Just in different ways.

To me, the absence of engine noise lets your senses concentrate more fully on the dynamics of the car. You don't just feel the road, you hear the road. YMMV.

I've been out in the Tesla, and I would not quite compare it to a sailplane.

And you don't really hear the road, what you hear is every creak and grown and the resonance of the chassis and fiberglass body drumming in your ears.

[Vampyre]

Interesting idea, but I like the sound of a gas driven engine and I like the sound of the exhaust note, to me those are both driver aids.

But I am not opposed to EP cars.

[e jet]

Originally Posted by mopho

I've been out in the Tesla, and I would not quite compare it to a sailplane.

And you don't really hear the road, what you hear is every creak and grown and the resonance of the chassis and fiberglass body drumming in your ears.

Ah, well that's the Tesla. The EV1 had some weird thunks and clacks too. I haven't driven a Tesla, but I've driven a Tzero (its 1900 lb. ancestor) and it was pretty quiet. Fiberglass and tubular frame.

If you want noise, you can have noise. How about the Lotus hybrid/EV noise generation system? A bit of tinkering, and you too can have the supercar soundtrack of your choice. Want to be a Ferrari today? Subwoofer and amp required, 150 kW available! From the Lotus newsletter:

http://www.just-auto.com/proactive/p...r-issue-24.pdf

OK, they call it a "Safe and Sound Hybrid" but the possibilities are endless.

Like I said, YMMV.

[mopho]

Originally Posted by e jet

Ah, well that's the Tesla. The EV1 had some weird thunks and clacks too. I haven't driven a Tesla, but I've driven a Tzero (its 1900 lb. ancestor) and it was pretty quiet. Fiberglass and tubular frame.

Tzero is not built on the Elise platform like you are talking about, the Tesla is, so what you are proposing will provide similar noise issues to what I experienced in the Tesla. It was not terrible, nor loud, but it certainly was not exciting. The sound of an engine ads to the experience, makes the car feel faster.

I have been in other electric cars too, even one that does 11 sec 1/4 miles


I imagine the novelty of an electric sports car with no gears would wear off pretty quick for the kind of hardcore enthusiasts that would buy an spartan sports car like the Elise, I think most would agree that the noise is part of the package (hence why many Elise owners put aftermarket exhaust systems on the car).
And that is precisely why Tesla decided to make their car a bit more plush, to appeal to a broader audience (that and they listened to their customers who suggested they did not want a car as spartan as the elise).

Like I said, I welcome the idea of an electric runabout, but it would have to be a little bit more practical/comfortable. When it comes to my fun car, I love hearing the engine winding out, cracking off shifts and the sounds echoing off the mountain walls

Like I said, YMMV.

Well you asked for opinions, and I gave mine

[smicker]

Originally Posted by e jet

Survey: If an electric Elise or Exige were available with the following specifications, how interested would you be as a purchaser?

- A version of the same electric drivetrain that the Tesla roadster's is licensed from (AC Propulsion AC-150), but air-cooled rather than water-cooled

I need to correct you on this--Tesla has designed and makes its own drive train with its own patents. The only thing licensed from AC Propulsion is their Reductive Charging patent. Also, the Roadster's motor is air-cooled, not water-cooled.

--Paul

[e jet]

Originally Posted by smicker

I need to correct you on this--Tesla has designed and makes its own drive train with its own patents. The only thing licensed from AC Propulsion is their Reductive Charging patent. Also, the Roadster's motor is air-cooled, not water-cooled.

--Paul

Yes, I know that that's Tesla's assertion. I can't say more than that in a public forum. The lawyers are already on the march! (Tesla vs. Fisker, Magna vs. Tesla: Tesla Roadster Law Suits vs. Fisker, Magna - Legal Analysis - Engadget - Popular Mechanics)

Oh, and I know that the Tesla's motor is air-cooled. I was referring to their liquid-cooled battery pack.

[FLuXeXigeS]

i would if it had a longer range in between charges

also interested on how long an almost dead to full charge will take

was really considering keeping the Exige then ordering a Tesla but the 220mile range isnt gonna cut it for how much my gf or i drive daily

thanx

[Bavarian Motorist]

And 220 miles is in ideal conditions if you drive like a kitty cat (or like a Prius owner, Flux ).

[MattG]

Originally Posted by mopho

I imagine the novelty of an electric sports car with no gears would wear off pretty quick for the kind of hardcore enthusiasts that would buy an spartan sports car like the Elise, I think most would agree that the noise is part of the package (hence why many Elise owners put aftermarket exhaust systems on the car).

The more I think about it, the more I'm inclined to agree with that statement. I think an EV conversion kit like described here would be much more suitable in a car designed for practicality and commuting. For example, make such a kit fit into a Civic or Corolla or Smart ForTwo, perhaps), and I'd have a much easier time justifying spending $45k on it (not to mention, the target market is MUCH larger and hence better from a business perspective). I love the idea of a small, efficient electric car, but am having a hard time seeing how you can can have an electric SPORTS car. Have you ever stood mere feet behind a Diablo, McLaren F1, or Cizeta Morodor as the owner revved its engine to near redline (ah, one of the joys of wandering the grounds at the Concorso Italiano show!)? It's a life-changing experience and one that no EV can duplicate.

[Rugbyduck]

Originally Posted by mopho

I am all for a fun to drive electric commuter car, but for a sports car that is for the most part a toy with very little practicality, no thank you.
The noise of an engine and rowing through the gears is half the fun.

If you remember the EV1 from GM...it had a "Batmobile" type whine to it. That would be cool!

[FLuXeXigeS]

Originally Posted by Bavarian Motorist

And 220 miles is in ideal conditions if you drive like a kitty cat (or like a Prius owner, Flux ).

i agree, i dont even drive my prius th fuel efficient way, LOL, that 200 mile range would look more like 185-200 at best with me behind the wheel haha