Tesla on 60 Min CBS tonight

[mcoupe]

For those interested

[AgentTripleX]

Thanks for starting a separate thread. Tesla just a Tease?

[mcoupe]

No sweat...here to help.

[snuggles1]

Originally Posted by mcoupe

No sweat...here to help.

good looking ride... looks, umm, familiar

as much as i take environmental issues seriously (and I do!) the car guy in me is like, "$100K for an electric car... umm, what color Viper will I be getting??"

[Aedo]

Originally Posted by AgentTripleX

Thanks for starting a separate thread. Tesla just a Tease?

To fair that thread is long and increasingly technical - this new thread was useful in and of itself

[AgentTripleX]

Originally Posted by snuggles1

good looking ride... looks, umm, familiar

as much as i take environmental issues seriously (and I do!) the car guy in me is like, "$100K for an electric car... umm, what color Viper will I be getting??"

I thought the same time till I actually started driving one. The first time I was like, uhm, ok this is cool. The more seat time I got the more addicted I got. It's such a smooth ride and having the torque instantly and linear is such an amazing feeling. Every time you accelerate it sounds like a jet taking off. I'm really in love. I think electric cars will spoil us all eventually. I don't understand why no one has been successful at this thus far. I mean I do, I've seen who's killed the electric car and talked to industry folks, but it doesn't make sense that such phenomenal cars and technology has been repressed by whoever's in charge. I truly hope electrics are the way of the future.

[ewalberg]

it never ceases to amaze me the extent to which people pick bones with a technology they haven't even tried. If i were tesla i'd figure out a scenario for test driving that would give people some understanding of just how different and how fun the power profile of an electic car can be. Tesla needs to figure out how to get people to let go of the sound of baseball cards taped into the spokes of your bicycle.

I just see it as all these people picking on something and they have no idea what they're missing.

I can't afford one... but the only other car i could imagine spending 100k on would be an old bmw z8 becausee they're just plane beautiful... the REAL fun factor that the tesla offers of any street legal car, i think, is totally unsurpassable. REAL fun factor, not imaginary! We're on public roads right? Why any lotus driver would be intersted in a viper i totally don't understand unless they ONLY reason that person has a lotus in the first place is because it's the most expensive car they can afford.

Another thing i think tesla should do is slap some slicks on the thing and do an alignment to the stig's preference and let him do some laps around some famous tracks and see what times he pulls. If it's not that great, don't publish it, but people might be surprised. Unless it runs out of top speed, the thing does 0-60 in 4 seconds... it ain't gonna be slow. will it run long enough for the average track day if trailered? Maybe not but how short will it fall?

[snuggles1]

Originally Posted by AgentTripleX

I thought the same time till I actually started driving one. The first time I was like, uhm, ok this is cool. The more seat time I got the more addicted I got. It's such a smooth ride and having the torque instantly and linear is such an amazing feeling. Every time you accelerate it sounds like a jet taking off. I'm really in love. I think electric cars will spoil us all eventually. I don't understand why no one has been successful at this thus far. I mean I do, I've seen who's killed the electric car and talked to industry folks, but it doesn't make sense that such phenomenal cars and technology has been repressed by whoever's in charge. I truly hope electrics are the way of the future.

I hear you, A-XXX! and, by the transitory property, I'm in love too .... let me know when u're driving, and I'll ride shotgun.

[Aedo]

Originally Posted by AgentTripleX

I thought the same time till I actually started driving one. The first time I was like, uhm, ok this is cool. The more seat time I got the more addicted I got. It's such a smooth ride and having the torque instantly and linear is such an amazing feeling. Every time you accelerate it sounds like a jet taking off. I'm really in love. I think electric cars will spoil us all eventually. I don't understand why no one has been successful at this thus far. I mean I do, I've seen who's killed the electric car and talked to industry folks, but it doesn't make sense that such phenomenal cars and technology has been repressed by whoever's in charge. I truly hope electrics are the way of the future.

The problem with electric cars is not the "whoever's in charge" but the people who make them. Successfully making and marketing a disruptive technology is very difficult as you have to change the way people (buyers) think - and that is probably the hardest thing in the world!

If building electric cars was as easy as making microwave ovens the Asian manufacturing countries would have already been producing them - they are outside the influence of anyone in the US!! But it simply isn't that easy to make a compelling electric car.

Tesla are different in that they are doing the right marketing, they have got a clever design, they are only planning to sell small numbers at a high price to establish a market (they will probably still lose money on this market entry exercise). They also don't have the weight and drag of a large auto manufacturer to shift! Finally I think their timing is right - electric cars haven't been so interesting before because they didn't have a compelling selling point and simply weren't as good as the (cheaper) petrol competition.


[/soapbox]

PS: I wish Tesla great success and look forward to trying one!!

[bolt]

100k for a Tesla? That seems a little ridiculous for a Tesla. Does it resemble any qualities of a luxury sedan? For that kind of money i'd buy a S class mercedes.

[Aedo]

Originally Posted by bolt

100k for a Tesla? That seems a little ridiculous for a Tesla. Does it resemble any qualities of a luxury sedan? For that kind of money i'd buy a S class mercedes.

Luxury sedan??? S class mercedes??? Are you sure you're in the right place??? try www.soft-fat-barges.com - more likely to find what you're looking for

[bolt]

haha, I know its a roadster and their sedan hasn't come out yet, but to pay $109,000 as its base price is a bit much for a lack of comfort. Though a +/- 4.0 0-60 is impressive especially for it being an electric car.

[xtn]

Originally Posted by bolt

haha, I know its a roadster and their sedan hasn't come out yet, but to pay $109,000 as its base price is a bit much for a lack of comfort. Though a +/- 4.0 0-60 is impressive especially for it being an electric car.

Quite the opposite in fact. Electric cars could easily be designed to turn a sub-three second 0-60 time (assuming adequate traction). Just do the math, figure out what torque value you need and then select the motors and batteries to provide it.

There are trade-offs with that hardware selection of course, just as there are with gasoline engines. But there is no inherent quality of electric cars that makes it more difficult for them to accelerate quickly.

xtn

[smicker]

Originally Posted by Aedo

try www.soft-fat-barges.com - more likely to find what you're looking for

Server not found. I thought I'd finally found my site.

[LARRY]

You'll have 100 different choices of electric cars in the next two years...pick one!


L.A.Times last week:

At the Paris Motor Show on Thursday, Pelata announced that the French carmaker would build a pure electric version of the Fluence, a mid-size sedan, and sell as many as 40,000 in 2011. "But we could double that" in the following year, Pelata said.

Such sales volumes could make Renault the world's largest producer of electric road vehicles -- far outpacing, for instance, the production numbers proposed for General Motors Corp.'s much-vaunted Volt, due out in 2010. GM is planning to make 10,000 a year to start.

Against a backdrop of generally gloomy sales forecasts and belt-tightening, a chorus of optimism rose from automakers at the Paris show as the technical hurdles of hybrids, plug-ins and electric vehicle development -- primarily involving the cost and capacity of advanced-chemistry batteries -- are gradually being overcome.

"Two years ago nobody said an electric vehicle was even possible," said Pitt Moos, marketing manager for Smart USA. "Today everybody is saying, 'We're going to make one.' "


At the show, Smart -- the maker of those tiny two-seat city cars -- announced plans to build all-electric vehicles for Europe by the end of the decade. But it hasn't said what its intentions are for the U.S. market.

"The challenge has always been the battery," Moos said. Compact, energy-dense lithium chemistry batteries for automotive applications are expensive and can be hazardous.

"We have just in the past couple of months become comfortable about a method of making lithium batteries for cars," Moos said. "Now some people are starting to quote Obama: Yes, we can."

Both Mercedes-Benz and BMW unveiled full-size luxury hybrid production models with lithium batteries: the S400 BlueHybrid and the 7-Series hybrid, respectively. Mercedes-Benz Chairman Dieter Zetsche said the S400 -- powered by a 275-horsepower, 3.5-liter V-6 and a 15-kilowatt electric motor and a lithium-battery pack -- will be the world's most economical luxury car with a gasoline engine. The car will be able to accelerate from zero to 62 mph in 7.2 seconds and get about 29 miles per gallon.

"This is just the beginning," Zetsche said. "With this technology, we can hybridize all of our models in rapid succession. This car proves Mercedes will be able to downsize its emissions without downsizing its products."

Among the French domestic carmakers: Renault unveiled its Ondelious concept, a large SUV crossover that combines a diesel combustion engine with electric motors (situated in the wheel hubs) powered by a single 4-kilowatt-hour lithium-ion battery.

Peugeot likewise dipped into diesel-electric waters with its Prologue crossover, which will go into production next year. Peugeot and Citroen, siblings under PSA Group, will share a hybrid system called Hymotion4, which involves an efficient diesel engine powering the front wheels and an electric motor/lithium battery driving the rear wheels.

Among smaller cars, Nissan revealed its quirky bubble-shaped NuVu concept, a proposal for an electric city car circa 2015.

Nissan says many of the concept car's electric powertrain components will power the company's new, still-mysterious dedicated electric vehicle, expected in 2010. Mitsubishi, meanwhile, talked up its i-MiEV electric cars.

[SweetDaddyD]

I hope they hang in there. Electric cars outnumbered gas cars in 1900. It would be nice if we could get back to that. The technology is there, and has been there. It's just been repressed. Heck who would of thought that in 1998 Ford had an Electric vehicle development center. I actually went there and drove a 1998 Electric Ranger in that year. They had a whole division devoted to it. It was very interesting to drive and performed amazingly well for what you expected. A lot of similarities to reviews you hear of the Tesla. Massive torque. Rapid acceleration is absolute silence. Under the bed there was plenty of room for batteries (I think they said 1,000 lbs worth). Funny that the main stream big companies have had and developed this technology and have done nothing with it. I saw and experienced it first had 10 years ago myself and 100 years ago there were plenty of manufactures of electric cars.

How many of you even knew Ford had an electric ranger 10 years ago?

Ford Ranger E.V. An Owners Site

[EliseSC]

well, then there's the range and recharging issues. gotta tackle those to make it practical. to lower the barrier to adoption there will have to be an A-to-B car and infrastructure, not just A-to-A driving with overnight recharging.

[Rich H]

Its a great misperception to think that electric vehicles were somehow forgotten, suppressed, "killed", or unavailable. Quite the opposite is true. They have been used extensively for over a century in industrial, mining, and railroad settings, where electric motors can provide maximum torque from rest to move very heavy loads, something that internal combustion engines are not very good at doing. And, for as long as I can remember, one could also buy an electric car, if one really wanted one.

There has been no shortage of engineering talent applied to electrics, and no lack of effort to market them, and success doing it where they offer economic advantage.

The rub has been that they cost more to build and fuel than equivalent internal combustion engined vehicles, notwithstanding today's hype and cheerleading, and so long as that is true they will never substantially penetrate the light-duty market (i.e., the fate of the GM EV1 - a huge fan base for a great car on a heavily subsidized lease, but not so much at full cost). Government subsidy could of course shift that balance if voters are in the mood for it.

All that's not to say, however, that there isn't some market for electric cars, just as there are markets for similarly uneconomical, but entertaining, sports cars and prestige cars. Nothing wrong with that.

But as a matter of public policy it seems that we might all be a lot better off by pushing hardest for reducing the size and weight of conventional cars, which would cause a sharp reduction in fossil fuel use.

Can't help but wonder, for example, what would result if Toyota sold an identical version of the Prius, same body/aerodynamics, engine, materials, tires, and internal subsides to the extent that there are any, etc., but without all of the hybrid hardware. My guess is a lot less weight and much lower cost, comparable highway gas mileage, and somewhat lower city mileage - the slam-dunk choice between the two for the value buyer.

[jasper]

I inquired about getting a tesla prior to production. I filled out a 3 page application and was eventually offered a car. Here was the deal - $75,000 down payment, the balance due at delivery. If you don't live in a primary service area (read - california bay area) - I live in texas - an extra 20k service contract that would include delivery of the car and installing the charging set up in your garage and some unspecified follow up for future mechanical issues. So about 130k after taxes. I like the tesla, but not that much. Currently I have my eye on the Aptera - different animal, but same idea for around 30k, but alas only to be sold initially in California. I like California, grew up there and still have a place in Santa Cruz, but I don't like it enough to go back just to get one of these cars.

[AgentTripleX]

Careful about the Aptera. It's not really a car. It has to only pass motorcycle requirements as far as safety is concerned.