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#41 (permalink) |
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Exige? SEXIGE!
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wait... apk919, where's oil in the that chart? It showed lots of oil generators in the graph that I posted, but I don't see it in your table.
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Phantom Black 2007 Exige S221.56436. All options. Black 01' Mustang Cobra 'Vert ("some" modifications) daily driver Facebook group: Add lightness...and Darkness! |
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#42 (permalink) | |
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Exige? SEXIGE!
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CA is not doing too bad according to apk919's chart actually: Natual gas-good, Hydroelectric- not bad, Nuclear-no bad, GeoThermal-sweet, Wind-awesome, Biomass-great! ![]() the top 5 electric power sources all seemed pretty acceptable to me. ![]()
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Phantom Black 2007 Exige S221.56436. All options. Black 01' Mustang Cobra 'Vert ("some" modifications) daily driver Facebook group: Add lightness...and Darkness! |
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#43 (permalink) |
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Exige? SEXIGE!
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yes I know its a hydrocarbon. but it burns clean and its domestically produced.
Long term, if you buy the global warming theory, then obviously those plants will have to be replaced by other sources (solar, wind, geothermal, biomass, nuclear, fusion etc)
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Phantom Black 2007 Exige S221.56436. All options. Black 01' Mustang Cobra 'Vert ("some" modifications) daily driver Facebook group: Add lightness...and Darkness! |
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#44 (permalink) | ||
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anglophile in exile
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- the renewables are a subset of the 5th value.Quote:
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#45 (permalink) |
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Exige? SEXIGE!
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he switched the graph... the original table didn't didn't have the renewable subsets... just a list.
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Phantom Black 2007 Exige S221.56436. All options. Black 01' Mustang Cobra 'Vert ("some" modifications) daily driver Facebook group: Add lightness...and Darkness! |
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#47 (permalink) |
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Exige? SEXIGE!
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yeah sorry for the off topic.
I just want to leave the "anti-green technology guys" with one thought: we all know that the stuff that runs our internal combustion sports cars is gonna run out eventually, while demand is going up in China, India and Russia. If there is technology that will allow the soccer moms and taxi drivers in China to use less of the stuff and leave me more gasoline to run my 4.6L V8 (or at least make it cheaper for me to buy that gas), I'm gonna be all for it.
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Phantom Black 2007 Exige S221.56436. All options. Black 01' Mustang Cobra 'Vert ("some" modifications) daily driver Facebook group: Add lightness...and Darkness! |
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#48 (permalink) |
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"Are you in a band??"
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 456
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I would definitely not say I'm anti-green, I'm simply anti-green-for-the-wrong-reasons. I would love it if we could flip a switch and the world could suddenly run on renewable, clean energy (with no negative side effects).
Unfortunately, that's not the case and people tend to focus exclusively on the downstream (a car that produces zero emissions, or a solar panel that produces renewable power) and ignore the upstream (pollution/waste in the process of building the panel/car, the energy consumed to create it versus the lifetime energy saved/produced by the product itself, etc). Additionally, given that all of mankind's combined emissions total only a small fraction of one percent of the earth's total C02 output, AND the fact that C02 levels TRAIL temperature maps (as expected) rather than precede them - it's obvious that C02 emission is really the least of our worries. I'm personally more concerned with the over-expansion and the eventual destruction of the earth's surface thanks to overpopulation. We are the kudzu of this planet... |
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#49 (permalink) |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 1,205
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I think the general idea behind electric vehicles is that it is more efficient and cost effective to produce electricity centrally (the power plant) than in the current distributed model (internal combustion on-board each car). That said, I'll do a little research on distributed energy production tonight. I'm curious. The mainframe doesn't seem like a perfect analogy because it disregards the significantly greater energy consumption of PCs vs. terminals. PCs are rather inefficient beasts. I'm not saying they necessarily need to be.
I've heard the idea of having a grid that you can sell to as well as buy. That seems interesting as well. I still think that on the most basic level, the problem is that there are too many people. If there are enough energy users that we are even discussing the depletion of resources, perhaps the number of people walking around is greater than it should be by at least several orders of magnitude. |
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#50 (permalink) | |
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I drank what?!?
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 4,210
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This might give you a better idea of what I'm talking about: The Secret Lives of Energy - The Energy Problem - Conservation of Energy Last edited by Icedog_16 : 06-15-2009 at 11:24 AM. |
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#51 (permalink) |
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now where was I...?
Join Date: May 2009
Location: with Peter and Lois Griffin
Posts: 155
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I don't understand why there is even any debate about which energy to use.
Solar energy is completely FREE, Completely clean, inexhaustible, easily collected, easily stored, requires no raw materials. Approximately 15,000 times more solar energy hits the earth than mankind currently produces/uses using all other methods of generation. The amount of Solar energy being generated/collected is doubling every 2 years and is just 8 doublings away from fully meeting current needs (i.e. potentially 16 years) It's an absolute no brainer that when presented with a choice of inexpensive clean solar energy and expensive dirty energy - consumers and producers will choose solar. The most likely future for personal transport in 20 years time will be a mixture of (solar produced) hydrogen - fuelling fuel cells in vehicles that need a longer range and pure Tesla style battery vehicles for local commuting. It's happening already, and the technology is catching up very quickly.
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I must not bet on the Top Gear board. I must not bet on the Top Gear board. I must not bet on the Top Gear board. |
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#52 (permalink) | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 1,205
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#53 (permalink) |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 1,205
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I should mention that I knew someone who had an electric 1992 Toyota RAV4 - the only year they made that vehicle. According to her, her first service was at 140,000 miles. I think the battery pack was dying at that point.
When I was in high school, they taught us to budget roughly as much for vehicle maintenance as for fuel. An entire industry will be virtually shuttered here ![]() |
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#54 (permalink) | |
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I drank what?!?
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 4,210
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#55 (permalink) |
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 87
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I am so over the TESLA. It's a great project that has it's place in terms of trail blazing new technology but... Seems like an early adopter sport car thing. Reminds me of Lazer discs, Really large and very expensive microwaves of the early 80's. Wait a few years and get something that is lots cheaper, works as good or even better.
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#56 (permalink) | |
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I'm Lovin' It!
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By the time we get to 100% solar power, the Earth will be dark from the shadows of the solar panels we will be living under. j/k
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'05 AR Mods: Stebel Nautilus horn; tesprit's rearview mirror; Custom Interior Pictures; PPF full front clam wrap |
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#57 (permalink) |
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I drank what?!?
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 4,210
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According to this article I just found, EVs are about 21% efficient well-to-wheel vs 19% for an IC engine running CNG, which is practically a wash in my book - especially if you account for the environmental impact and additional cost of the EV battery pack. Oh, and, according to the article, the well-to-tank efficiency is about half that of the CNG IC vehicle, so I don't think the ten times more efficient stat is correct.
Mechanical Engineering Power -- June 2003, feature, "Gauging Efficiency, Well to Wheel" Actually, a pretty good article. Unfortunately, it doesn't touch on gasoline engines and I'm pretty sure that gas is more energy-dense than CNG. |
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#58 (permalink) | |||
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Exige? SEXIGE!
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Internal combustion engines in cars are very inefficent because they have to work though a big RPM range. Power Plants that burn hydrocarbons runs at the RPM of Peak efficiency: Electric motors are also more efficient though out a big range of RPMs. Also, the power plant & transmission line argument goes away when people convert to point of us Solar/wind power generation. Processing EVs & Power Plants: 39% (Electricity Generation) | ICE & Fuel Refining92% (Fuel Refining) Transmission Lines: EVs & Power Plants 95% | ICE & Fuel Refining-N/A Charging EVs & Power Plants 88%| ICE & Fuel Refining-N/A Vehicle Efficiency: EVs & Power Plants 88% | ICE & Fuel Refining 15% Overall Efficiency: EVs & Power Plants 28% | ICE & Fuel Refining 14% this is only comparing EVs to ICEs, because the calculation for a hybrid/plug-in hybrid is much more complicated.
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Phantom Black 2007 Exige S221.56436. All options. Black 01' Mustang Cobra 'Vert ("some" modifications) daily driver Facebook group: Add lightness...and Darkness! Last edited by IamBatman : 06-15-2009 at 01:02 PM. |
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#59 (permalink) | |
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Exige? SEXIGE!
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Phantom Black 2007 Exige S221.56436. All options. Black 01' Mustang Cobra 'Vert ("some" modifications) daily driver Facebook group: Add lightness...and Darkness! |
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#60 (permalink) | |
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Exige? SEXIGE!
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Phantom Black 2007 Exige S221.56436. All options. Black 01' Mustang Cobra 'Vert ("some" modifications) daily driver Facebook group: Add lightness...and Darkness! |
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