Tesla just a Tease?

[njboy]

Originally Posted by ads_green

Most of the inefficiencies of an IC engine is the way it's used with fixed gear ratios. You can improve the efficiency alot by running the engine at it's optimum throttle and rpm.

My view is that a 100% electric car is going to struggle as there isn't a really effective portable way of reliably storing electricity with reasonable running costs (replacement cell for example). This may change as technology advances however right now I can't see anything thats going to take the place of liquid fuel.
Given that we already have a reliable distribution and refueling infrastrcuture in place for petrol and diesel the obvious transition to electric cars would be a sequential hybrid - a small conventional IC engine burning liquid fuel (doesn't have to be petrol so can be more environmentally friendly) operating at it's optimum efficiency point driving an all electric drivetrain. Add in a Kinetic Energy Recovery System (say flywheel or small battery/capacitor) then you can incorporate regenerative braking.
It's not perfect but you get the range and refuelling speed of a current car, no massive change to the infrastructure and can be used with existing technology.

From Wikipedia:

Most steel engines have a thermodynamic limit of 37%. Even when aided with turbochargers and stock efficiency aids, most engines retain an average efficiency of about 18%-20%.[6][7]

Internal combustion engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

An electic motor efficiency is far better than that. And an electric car already has the energy regeneration that you speak of built in without added complexity.

Lithium Ion batteries are recyclable and like other electronics will surely come down in price as demand increases. Bosch and Samsung joint venture for lithium-ion batteries starts operations

No massive changes to the infrastructure are needed for electric plug ins. The power grid is already at your home. As for demand in the future this will be a slow ramp up process as the cost of EVs will be high at first slowing the rate at which we will see them connect to the power grid.

The argument of more natural gas and coal consumption to supply energy to Evs is a valid one. However why does it have to be these fuels? We have one of the most abundant supply of wind energy (NJ plans to become a world leader in wind power - BusinessWeek) in the world. Let's harness that first then go nuclear and then natural gas.

[SweetDaddyD]

Originally Posted by njboy

(NJ plans to become a world leader in wind power - BusinessWeek) in the world. Let's harness that first then go nuclear and then natural gas.

How about lets harness that, solar, geothermal, and tidal energy- THEN nuke and natural gas. (even though utilizing any one of the of the first choices on a massive scale, let alone all of them wouldn't leave any need to continue to use non renewable resources) Of course with wind, solar, geothermal, tidal, hydro, etc a huge corporation doesn't have something to sell you to keep it going, and with their lobbying and political influence it's easy to see why these technologies have not been developed in the US.

[Rich H]

Originally Posted by SweetDaddyD

How about lets harness that, solar, geothermal, and tidal energy- THEN nuke and natural gas. (even though utilizing any one of the of the first choices on a massive scale, let alone all of them wouldn't leave any need to continue to use non renewable resources) Of course with wind, solar, geothermal, tidal, hydro, etc a huge corporation doesn't have something to sell you to keep it going, and with their lobbying and political influence it's easy to see why these technologies have not been developed in the US.

A modest suggestion, why don't the wind, solar, etc. enthusiasts form a group of electricity users committed to receiving power only from these sources, without any reliability support from fossil-fired power plants, at the actual cost of the alternative supplies? If any significant numbers are willing to do that, you might be surprised at how fast alternative supplies grow.

[njboy]

Originally Posted by SweetDaddyD

How about lets harness that, solar, geothermal, and tidal energy- THEN nuke and natural gas. (even though utilizing any one of the of the first choices on a massive scale, let alone all of them wouldn't leave any need to continue to use non renewable resources) Of course with wind, solar, geothermal, tidal, hydro, etc a huge corporation doesn't have something to sell you to keep it going, and with their lobbying and political influence it's easy to see why these technologies have not been developed in the US.

Wind is of course a form of solar energy and is abundant off shore and in the mid-West. But there are only a few areas of the country to get solar energy from solar panels. I have heard of using geothermal since the 70's but don't really know of many places that can safely harness this energy. As for tidal energy the devices are complex and more susceptable to corrosion and failure. I really think that wind, nuclear and natural gas are our only reliable, clean options at this point. If coal plants could trap the carbon that they produce and just put it back into the ground that is a good alternative but that development seems to be too expensive.

[Aedo]

Originally Posted by njboy

If coal plants could trap the carbon that they produce and just put it back into the ground that is a good alternative but that development seems to be too expensive.

and since coal is pretty much just carbon it seems that is a tough ask!

[AgentTripleX]

abc7news.com: Energy Innovation

[SweetDaddyD]

The French government announced today that it has earmarked a massive €400 million ($549 million) in state support for the development of electric and hybrid cars. The news comes hot on the heels of key pledges on the development of electric cars from Renault and Peugeot-Citroen that signal a major shift in green transport policy across the country.

Speaking at the Paris Motor Show, President Nicolas Sarkozy said the investment is destined “exclusively for the research and development of non-polluting vehicles.” His comments follow earlier announcements from French carmakers Renault SA and PSA Peugeot Citroen of separate agreements with energy company Electricite de France (EdF) to develop and market green vehicles.

In a joint statement with EdF, Peugeot Citroen said that their scheme will support the development of electric vehicles (EVs) and plug-in hybrids. Meanwhile, the Renault agreement will advance the development of an EV charging infrastructure, enabling a country-wide vehicle launch in 2011.

EdF, which is 85% owned by the French government, runs the worlds biggest fleet of EVs and is developing a ’smart’ charging terminal currently being trialled on Toyota Prius’s in the UK. Using innovative vehicle recognition technology, the system allows drivers to be invoiced directly, irrespective of where they charge their vehicles.