Properly installed and fastened 4 points belts can be used for the track day

[RichS]

Properly installed and fastened 4 points belts can be used for the track day as long as you have them for both seats.

Original manufacturer’s restraint system providing it is 3 point or more.

If aftermarket restraints are fitted, 5 or 6 point harness are strongly
recommended. You must provide the same restraints for the passenger as the
driver.

[fishguy]

my guess is that it depends on the group you run with.

I race with three different clubs, and none will let you out with a 4 point set-up.
i dont think NASA HPDE or SCCA PDX will allow you to go out with a 4 point unless it the ASM harness from schroth.

there is one group here locally that will probobly let you out, but thats only because they dont tech the cars(self tech), or really even have much of a track crew to flag for you.

I would be concerned about what other things are being ingnored as far as safety goes that you are not aware of with clubs like this. sooner or later, someone will find out.
I did a few events with the self tech club, and when you looked around at what was going on, it was pretty scary. my experience from it has been that if the club is not being proactive with checking out the cars going out on track, then they are probobly not a very safe group to run with.
its like they say about restaraunts, if the bathroom is filthy, the kitchen is most likely also disgusting.............you only eat there because its cheap, or you have yet to see the kitchen.

[Scott Bowman]

Only slightly off topic, but what are the helmet requirements for the track day at LOG 29? I found information on the autocross helmet requirements (Snell SA95 or better), but can't seem to find the information for the DE event. I notice there is a helmet inspection on Sunday night.

[swede]

Originally Posted by fishguy

my guess is that it depends on the group you run with.

I race with three different clubs, and none will let you out with a 4 point set-up.
i dont think NASA HPDE or SCCA PDX will allow you to go out with a 4 point unless it the ASM harness from schroth.

there is one group here locally that will probobly let you out, but thats only because they dont tech the cars(self tech), or really even have much of a track crew to flag for you.

I would be concerned about what other things are being ingnored as far as safety goes that you are not aware of with clubs like this. sooner or later, someone will find out.
I did a few events with the self tech club, and when you looked around at what was going on, it was pretty scary. my experience from it has been that if the club is not being proactive with checking out the cars going out on track, then they are probobly not a very safe group to run with.
its like they say about restaraunts, if the bathroom is filthy, the kitchen is most likely also disgusting.............you only eat there because its cheap, or you have yet to see the kitchen.

So then if a girl has filthy feet

[DeanG]

From http://www.log29.com/Track_Day.htm It is burried but it is there.

You will notice that you are responsible for your own tech inspection. We recognize that every participant is a responsible adult and that only someone extremely foolish would not be thorough with this. We will check your helmet (auto or motorcycle ok but must be a 95 or later) and that mats and loose articles are removed. Things that your regular street mechanic might not be aware of would be the importance of bushings’ not being distorted due to wear or being soaked with petroleum based fluids.

[Ken Wright]

Is this official? I can't find any announcement on the LOG 29 site with this in it.

Mick can you confirm this?

Thanks,

Ken

[RichS]

Originally Posted by fishguy

my guess is that it depends on the group you run with.

Why are you guessing? Who cares what you guess?

Originally Posted by fishguy

I race with three different clubs, and none will let you out with a 4 point set-up.
i dont think NASA HPDE or SCCA PDX will allow you to go out with a 4 point unless it the ASM harness from schroth.
there is one group here locally that will probably let you out, but that's only because they don't tech the cars(self tech), or really even have much of a track crew to flag for you.

Good for you. Good for them. To me, groups that don't let you use 4 point belts are taking the easy way out. "Because it could be unsafe in some random car, we will not allow anyone to use them." And are you really sure that the only reason this 'one group here locally will probably let you out' (you don't even know what they would allow, but you have to post something about it?) is because they don't tech the cars? Complete absolute conjecture on your part, but you feel the need to share it. Why?

Originally Posted by fishguy

I would be concerned about what other things are being ignored as far as safety goes that you are not aware of with clubs like this. sooner or later, someone will find out.

And that concern would be completely baseless. There is absolutely nothing to find out.

Originally Posted by fishguy

I did a few events with the self tech club, and when you looked around at what was going on, it was pretty scary. my experience from it has been that if the club is not being proactive with checking out the cars going out on track, then they are probably not a very safe group to run with.
its like they say about restaraunts, if the bathroom is filthy, the kitchen is most likely also disgusting.............you only eat there because its cheap, or you have yet to see the kitchen.

At this point, I'm going to have to agree with others and say your "I'm going to piss all over anyone who does anything that I consider unsafe to be ignorant fools and I would have nothing to do with them." posts to just be annoying.

fishguy, you do TONS of unsafe crap on the track. You race an open wheel car. Open wheel cars are not as safe as closed wheel cars because when wheels touch, crappy stuff happens. You also race a car without much of a windshield. You helmet is directly exposed to any kind of debris that gets launched at you. You race an old car that is not as safe as newer cars. Hey, come to think of it, you race a car. That is inherently unsafe.

You take risks out on the track which you consider acceptable. And you also post over and over again about how anyone who takes a risk that you deem unacceptable to you is 'concerning'.

If a Nascar guy came here and started posting about how your open wheel racing is 'concerning' to him, you would dismiss his opinion because, to you, the risks you are taking are acceptable. He can crash his car at 200 MPH and walk away. You can't crash your car at 200 MPH and walk away. That means his car is safer than yours (and yes, I know your car won't go 200 MPH).

Please stop pissing all over my thread with your conjecture and opinions. If you want to disagree with me, take it to PMs. I'm going to ask the mods to have your post removed (as it really adds NO value whatsoever to this thread) and if they do I will remove this post.

To some folks a 4 point belt is just fine. For me, it is just fine.

Folks here's the deal:

Originally the organizers of this event wanted to go with EITHER stock 3 point belts or 5 point belts. I asked them to allow properly installed and fastened 4 points belts to be used during this event.

Personally I believe that a properly fasted 4 point belt in an Exige is WORLDS safer than the stock 3 point belt. There is no risk of submarining under the lap belt in a 4 point in an Exige unless it is not fastened properly. Once we enter the world of 'not fastened properly' ANY seat belt system is unsafe. Lotus even has had 4 point belts as stock equipment in some of their cars.

I feel VERY safe in my Exige with a 4 point belt. Much, much safer than I would if I only had my stock 3 point belts in the car.

I would actually feel less safe in a 5 point belt than my 4 point belt because of the potential risk to my balls with a 5 point belt. A six point belt would be fine and might be MARGINALLY better than my 4 point belt. To me.

When I found out that I might have to either use my 3 point belts or add a 5th point to run during the track day at LOG, I contacted the gentlemen running the event and asked them to allow 4 point belts too. They agreed to do so, they are working on the official wording. Once they have that, they will update the site.

[fishguy]

Originally Posted by RichS

And are you really sure that the only reason this 'one group here locally will probably let you out' (you don't even know what they would allow, but you have to post something about it?) is because they don't tech the cars? Complete absolute conjecture on your part, but you feel the need to share it. Why?
YES, I AM SURE, BECUASE I RAN WITH THEM BREIFLY, WHICH IS WHY I KNOW WHAT ITS LIKE TO RUN WITH AN UNSAFE TRACK ORGANIZATION, AND WHY I AM TRYING TO SHARE MY EXPERIENCE IT WAS FOOLISH, AND I WOULDNT DO IT AGAIN

And that concern would be completely baseless. There is absolutely nothing to find out.
WRONG, THE SAME GROUP, ALSO HAD A SKELETON TRACK CREW JUST LIKE THE DEAL THAT HAPPENED OUT IN CALIFIRONIA LAST WEEK, WHICH IS WHAT I WAS IMPLYING ABOUT FINDING OUT THINGS ABOUT THE GROUP
At this point, I'm going to have to agree with others and say your "I'm going to piss all over anyone who does anything that I consider unsafe to be ignorant fools and I would have nothing to do with them." posts to just be annoying.

NO,
I POST TO MAKE PEOPLE THINK ABOUT, AND RESPECT WHAT WE ARE DOING ON THE TRACK, NOT TO BE ANNOYING, BUT IT MUST BE ANNOYING TO HAVE YOUR SAFETY IDEAS AND GEAR IN QUESTION..........NOT MY FAULT, I AM JUST SHARING WHAT I HAVE LEARNED FROM GOING THROUGH TECH, AND EDUCATING MYSELF IN OTHERWAYS

fishguy, you do TONS of unsafe crap on the track. RACING IS INHERRENTLY DANGEROUS, BUT I PREPARE MY SELF, AND MY CARS WITH THE PROPER SAFETY GEAR SHOULD I NEED IT You race an open wheel car. Open wheel cars are not as safe as closed wheel cars because when wheels touch, crappy stuff happens. You also race a car without much of a windshield. You helmet is directly exposed to any kind of debris that gets launched at you. MY VISOR IS CLOSEDYou race an old car that is not as safe as newer cars. Hey, come to think of it, you race a car. That is inherently unsafe.AGREED, BUT IT CAN BE MADE SAFER WITH THE PROPER GEAR, AND WITH A CLUB THAT PLACES AN EMPHASIS ON SAFETY;

I TAKE CALCUALTED RISKS, YES, BUT NOT STUPID ONES

You take risks out on the track which you consider acceptable. And you also post over and over again about how anyone who takes a risk that you deem unacceptable to you is 'concerning'.
NOT PEOPLE WHO TAKE RISKS(LIFE IS A RISK), I COMMENT ON PEOPLE WHO PUT IN SAFETY GEAR IN THIER CARS THAT IS UNSAFE, OR DONE INCORRECTLY; THAT IS WHAT I COMMENT ON, YOU JUST TAKE IT THE WRONG WAY, I AM ALL FOR TAKING RISKS, JUST NOT BEING STUPID/IGNORANT ABOUT IT

If a Nascar guy came here and started posting about how your open wheel racing is 'concerning' to him, you would dismiss his opinion because, to you, the risks you are taking are acceptable. He can crash his car at 200 MPH and walk away. You can't crash your car at 200 MPH and walk away. That means his car is safer than yours (and yes, I know your car won't go 200 MPH).

FOR SURE A NASCAR IS SAFER THAN ANY OF MY CARS, AND MOST OTHER CARS OUT THERE, AND YES MY CAR WILL ONLY DO ~130 MAX MPH.
IF A NASCAR GUY TOOK A LOOK AT MY CARS, I WOULD CERTAINLY WELCOME AND TAKE UNDER ADVISEMENT ANY OPINIONS THEY HAD.

Please stop pissing all over my thread with your conjecture and opinions. If you want to disagree with me, take it to PMs. I'm going to ask the mods to have your post removed (as it really adds NO value whatsoever to this thread) and if they do I will remove this post.

BOO HOO, THERE IS A SAYING IN THE AIR FORCE, IF YOUR TAKING FLAK, YOU ARE RIGHT OVER THE TARGET

To some folks a 4 point belt is just fine. For me, it is just fine.

Folks here's the deal:

Originally the organizers of this event wanted to go with EITHER stock 3 point belts or 5 point belts. I asked them to allow properly installed and fastened 4 points belts to be used during this event.

Personally I believe that a properly fasted 4 point belt in an Exige is WORLDS safer than the stock 3 point belt. There is no risk of submarining under the lap belt in a 4 point in an Exige unless it is not fastened properly. Once we enter the world of 'not fastened properly' ANY seat belt system is unsafe. Lotus even has had 4 point belts as stock equipment in some of their cars.

YOU ARE WRONG, UNLESS YOU ARE REFERING TO AN ASM 4 POINT HARNESS

I feel VERY safe in my Exige with a 4 point belt. Much, much safer than I would if I only had my stock 3 point belts in the car.


I would actually feel less safe in a 5 point belt than my 4 point belt because of the potential risk to my balls with a 5 point belt.
THIS IS BECAUSE YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT

A six point belt would be fine and might be MARGINALLY better than my 4 point belt. To me.

When I found out that I might have to either use my 3 point belts or add a 5th point to run during the track day at LOG, I contacted the gentlemen running the event and asked them to allow 4 point belts too. They agreed to do so, they are working on the official wording. Once they have that, they will update the site.

MY REPLY IS IN BOLD IN YOUR QUOTE, yeah have the mods remove my post, then you will feel much better about tracking with the 4 point. if its an ASM, its fine, if its not, then your about a decade or more behind the times.

[MickOpalak]

Gentlemen,

Let's bring this discussion to a close right here.

If you'd like to take part in the LOG 29 HPDE event you need to do two things: have your car tech inspected by a Lotus dealer, your local mechanic, any garage you trust, or even yourself if you feel that you are technically proficient enough to do it. The form is available at LOG 29. Secondly, you'll need a helmet, preferrably a Snell SA 2000 or better, but we mistakenly put SA95 on the website, so we're gonna let it slide. If you'd like to drive with just the factory 3 point belts, that's fine with us.

Any safety items you'd like to add beyond that (harnesses, roll cages, fire extinguishers, HANS device, etc.) are at your discretion.

The bottom line is this: your safety is your responsibility. To take part in our event you'll be signing a waiver that states this very clearly. If you choose to get your car inspected by your uncle Billy who knows nothing about cars, or you installed 4, 5, 6 or 13 point harnesses but forget to tighten the bolts securing them, its your responsibility. You'll be signing a waiver stating this very clearly.

The track will be staffed by a professional organization (Zoom Motorsports) that has overseen hundreds of professional races and HPDEs. If they detect any behavior or equipment that is unsafe in any way they will not allow that driver/car to proceed any further.

Believe me, the LOG 29 committee has gone through hours of safety discussions on the HPDE (instructors, pace cars, convertible roll over standards, passengers, etc.). We've thought this through very carefully and taken every step we can to maintain the highest degree of participant safety, but we can't inspect every nut and bolt of every car taking part. That's up to the participant. If you want to run your car safely, make sure that its safe.

I've taken part in the HPDEs at the last 5 LOGs and have always found the safety standards to be excellent. I believe that we've taken those a step further with LOG 29.

Please PM me if you have any questions or comments.