Just drove an Elise had some questions...

[Dino944]

Hi guys,

I went to a car show this weekend with my wife and before I knew it we were driving a Lotus Elise. It was really a lot of fun to drive. Even my wife thought it was a blast. She thought it made the Boxster she drove feel more like a sedan. I read the FAQ section and I'm already familiar with certain aspects of owning a small less practical sports car.

I know from previous sports cars that its probably best to take inclines at an angle but what is the ground clearance on a base model Elise?

What are the most common concerns or problems that one might expect with a new Elise, or have they been on the market long enough to have worked all the bugs out?

What is the average cost of maintenance for a car that is not tracked and would probably see 5,000 miles a year or less?

If we chose to get an Elise we would probably get the touring package, sport package, limited slip, and hard top since we are in the north east, and maybe the starshield. Are there options that people have regretted getting or not getting? Again it would be a street car and see no track time.

What is the biggest surprise (pleasant or unpleasant) with your ownership experience?

Is the air conditioning reasonably good for temps upto low 90s in the summer? Maybe not as good as a modern MB or Lexus but reasonable?

Are the old stories about Lotus cars basically lacking in quality and reliability, all in the past or is reliability/quality still something to be concerned about?

Anyone previously owned or spent a lot of time with a Boxster S, and if so are you happy with your Elise.

Thank you in advance. I have new found respect for these cars after a little time behind the wheel.

Best regards,
Dino

[Dino944]

With the help of Gary, I located a section called uberposts that should be very helpful. Thanks again.

Best regards,
Dino

[David Craig]

Quite a few questions. I'll answer a few and hopefully others can contribute.

I've had my Elise for 1 month now. The "biggest" unusual thing about this car is how tiny the cockpit is. On one hand that is very cool. On the other hand, for daily driver use, it is a tight squeeze. There is no glovebox and there are no little storage bins on the doors. You have to decide for yourself if that works for you.

My car is a 2009 and so far everything is OK. I am hoping that many of the bugs have been worked out.

I am also enjoying the attention the car receives. I used to drive a Corolla which of course got no attention at all.

Softtop has been through the rain a few times and did not leak. I was kind of expecting it to leak a little but it did not, so I'm happy on that count.

Parking. Both home and work the car is parked inside. If you need to park it outside at work, you may be anxious about people hanging around the car.

[Seb]

Originally Posted by Dino944

Hi guys,

I went to a car show this weekend with my wife and before I knew it we were driving a Lotus Elise. It was really a lot of fun to drive. Even my wife thought it was a blast. She thought it made the Boxster she drove feel more like a sedan. I read the FAQ section and I'm already familiar with certain aspects of owning a small less practical sports car.

I know from previous sports cars that its probably best to take inclines at an angle but what is the ground clearance on a base model Elise?

What are the most common concerns or problems that one might expect with a new Elise, or have they been on the market long enough to have worked all the bugs out?

What is the average cost of maintenance for a car that is not tracked and would probably see 5,000 miles a year or less?

If we chose to get an Elise we would probably get the touring package, sport package, limited slip, and hard top since we are in the north east, and maybe the starshield. Are there options that people have regretted getting or not getting? Again it would be a street car and see no track time.

What is the biggest surprise (pleasant or unpleasant) with your ownership experience?

Is the air conditioning reasonably good for temps upto low 90s in the summer? Maybe not as good as a modern MB or Lexus but reasonable?

Are the old stories about Lotus cars basically lacking in quality and reliability, all in the past or is reliability/quality still something to be concerned about?

Anyone previously owned or spent a lot of time with a Boxster S, and if so are you happy with your Elise.

Thank you in advance. I have new found respect for these cars after a little time behind the wheel.

Best regards,
Dino

First off, welcome to Lotus Talk.

Ground clearance isn't a major issue as long as you aren't driving like an idiot. The odd very high speed bump will catch a little, but for the most part you can drive it like any other vehicle.

There are quite a few issues that are floating around at the moment. It seems like my brothers Elise had just about every one of them, so I'll give a little background (keep in mind that the majority of them don't suffer from them).

1) Constant cylinder 3 and random missfire CEL codes being thrown. Due to grinding down of the 3rd lobe on the intake cam, and a broken rocker on that. Nobody has solved this entirely yet, but it is thought to be attributed to an oil circulation issue. (see thread about it). This only happens when the engine is under significant load. Say the top of 3rd gear or the top of 4th.

2) Hiccup or stumble with the A/C on. Think of it like opening and closing the throttle really fast. You get a massive jerk, and the higher in the RPM's you are, the more it jerks. If you're merging onto the highway and it does it... well.. let's hope you can drive. This doesn't effect the 2005's with the cable throttle. Lotus has supplied a fix that was performed on my brothers car, but it did not fix the issue. Others seem to have better luck.

3) Transmission synchronizers. For some reason there is an abnormal number of premature syncro failures. My brother had the syncro to 2nd gear go at about 32k (I think) and when that was replaced, the new transmission started grinding going into 4th, and 3rd was very touchy. The car was never abused, but it was tracked once, and autocrossed once. The car regularly got driven enthusiastically, but nothing major that a Lotus couldn't handle. For the most part, Lotus doesn't seem to be giving people a problem with claiming these on their warranty.

All that said, you may end up with a car that is perfectly fine.

Maintenance is very easy. Since the engine block is a Toyota design, it more or less follows the normal service intervals like synthetic oil every 3500 miles etc, and an oil change on these cars isn't difficult. The brake change intervals I think are a little extreme. Something like only 2mm and then they are out of spec, but you can easily go past that comfortably. My brother was going to change his at 36k, but the car got wrecked. You probably won't ever have to worry about changing them anyway. The pads and rotors are also very easy to change yourself.

The hard top has to be bolted on, and is kind of a pain to do repeatedly. The soft top on the other hand is perfect. You simply attach the bars, and clip the top into place on both sides. Takes about 30 seconds after you do it once or twice. Some people that like to enjoy the weather just use the soft top, because they can remove and replace it easily.

The A/C is a little puny. Jeremy Clarkson says it best "It's like an asthmatic blowing at you through a straw..." I live in Texas, and I'll admit the A/C could use a little more power, but that's why you have a soft top It isn't so bad that it's uncomfortable. There are little modifications that you can do to increase the output and efficiency of it. People have done them with great success.

The biggest issue I had with the car was the dealership itself, but I won't get into that. I don't think you'll be unfortunate enough to experience that either. But that was the biggest surprise for me.

A big surprise on the plus end was the amount of head room I had. I'm 6ft 2ish and have a couple inches to spare. Side to side leg room is a little tight though.

For what you want, I think an Elise would put a smile on your face. Right now you think you won't be tracking this car, but the Elise is infectious, and you could very well get sucked into it. It would be a shame that the car wouldn't ever get driven to it's potential.

The best way to find out if an Elise is for you, is to ask what you want from your vehicle.

Elise Pro's:

Agile
Track monster
Easy maintenance
Not too expensive
Fun
Gorgeous... etc

Elise Con's:

Noisy
Not very comfortable
Not very luxurious
Lots of rattles
Can be temperamental

If any of these throws up a red flag, I wouldn't do it. Lets face it, the car was designed for a track. If you're looking for a weekend fun luxury cruiser, then I don't think the Elise is for you. Perhaps the new BMW M-Roadster/Coupe?

[LARRY]

Originally Posted by Dino944

Hi guys,

I went to a car show this weekend with my wife and before I knew it we were driving a Lotus Elise. It was really a lot of fun to drive. Even my wife thought it was a blast. She thought it made the Boxster she drove feel more like a sedan. I read the FAQ section and I'm already familiar with certain aspects of owning a small less practical sports car.

I know from previous sports cars that its probably best to take inclines at an angle but what is the ground clearance on a base model Elise?

It's low, especially in front. You have to very careful goinng in and out of driveways.

What are the most common concerns or problems that one might expect with a new Elise, or have they been on the market long enough to have worked all the bugs out?

It's a race car for the street, so there are alot of little noises. But with a Toyota engine, very little problems.

What is the average cost of maintenance for a car that is not tracked and would probably see 5,000 miles a year or less?

NOt much, especially on warranty. Tires wear out quickly. Probably less than $500 a year if you're not tracking it.

If we chose to get an Elise we would probably get the touring package, sport package, limited slip, and hard top since we are in the north east, and maybe the starshield. Are there options that people have regretted getting or not getting? Again it would be a street car and see no track time.

Sounds like good choices.

What is the biggest surprise (pleasant or unpleasant) with your ownership experience?

The number of people who look at the car. The number of sports car owners who want to talk to you when you own one. And driving a car this small is both fun and takes a little getting used to.

Is the air conditioning reasonably good for temps upto low 90s in the summer? Maybe not as good as a modern MB or Lexus but reasonable?

It works, but I tend not to use it very often. We only have a 10-gallon gas tank and I don't want to suck gas.

Are the old stories about Lotus cars basically lacking in quality and reliability, all in the past or is reliability/quality still something to be concerned about?

Very reliable. A BMW has 87 computer control panels, a Lotus has 4. Toyota engine very reliable. Occasionally needs brake pads, clutch, tires, oil.

Anyone previously owned or spent a lot of time with a Boxster S, and if so are you happy with your Elise.

I love my Lotus. It is a true sports car that gets better with age. If you love the Lotus, you'll buy it. Nothing else will do.

Thank you in advance. I have new found respect for these cars after a little time behind the wheel.

Best regards,
Dino

There you go.

[Lifespan]

Originally Posted by Dino944

I know from previous sports cars that its probably best to take inclines at an angle but what is the ground clearance on a base model Elise?

Base model is about 5.5" at the nose. It's actually not too bad in practice because the nose is very short. There are exact measurements in the manual which is posted on this forum.

Originally Posted by Dino944

What are the most common concerns or problems that one might expect with a new Elise, or have they been on the market long enough to have worked all the bugs out?

Plenty of bugs have been worked out, but understand that these are just quirky cars. They are hand assembled in a small factory and will have weird rattles, creaks, and small quality issues. It's just part of the car's character. There are threads about a handful of major issues that could happen, but they should be covered under warranty.

Originally Posted by Dino944

What is the average cost of maintenance for a car that is not tracked and would probably see 5,000 miles a year or less?

Depends on how much you want to do yourself. It takes the same type of maintence you would do on any car you cared about (IE not just running it blindly like on a Honda/Toyota you can get away with). Replacement goods are all a bit more expensive than your average commuter because they are more performance focused (oil, tires, brakes, etc). It's not rediculous, but it's above average.

Originally Posted by Dino944

If we chose to get an Elise we would probably get the touring package, sport package, limited slip, and hard top since we are in the north east, and maybe the starshield. Are there options that people have regretted getting or not getting? Again it would be a street car and see no track time.

I bought used so I had less flexability, but I do wish I had the sport package with TCU. I have not heard many good things about the limited slip, so I would keep that low on the list and definitely pick up the starshield (or have one installed aftermarket). It will keep that paint looking good, especially behind the rear tires.

Originally Posted by Dino944

What is the biggest surprise (pleasant or unpleasant) with your ownership experience?

Thanks to the fantastic megaposts on this forum, I have not been suprised at all. They are very informative. I guess the surprise is that a lot of the downsides commonly mentioned (noise, leaking, attention) have not been a problem at all for me.

Originally Posted by Dino944

Is the air conditioning reasonably good for temps upto low 90s in the summer? Maybe not as good as a modern MB or Lexus but reasonable?

Reasonable is about the best way to put it. It can manage mild heat without a problem.

[JnC]

Originally Posted by Dino944

If we chose to get an Elise we would probably get the touring package, sport package, limited slip, and hard top since we are in the north east, and maybe the starshield. Are there options that people have regretted getting or not getting? Again it would be a street car and see no track time.

In my opinion...

sport package: The tires and suspension for this package are overkill and too harsh for a street only car. The base suspension and tires are very well sorted out. Sport tires are more dicey in the wet and wear faster as well. Stock ride height is 130mm, i think it's about 10mm lower with sport.

limited slip diff: not required unless you autocross competitively. The traction control is not stability control of any sort, but merely reduces throttle if slippage occurs.

starshield: is essential in some form, aftermarket can save money but the Lotus option is more convenient.

I too thought it made my Boxster feel like a Buick. Welcome to the board.

[Seb]

I personally like the hard suspension on the sport package. The only thing I found a little too much was the road reflectors. Try hitting some of those and you'll see what I mean lol. Clarkson once made a comment about how if you run over an insect, you could tell how many legs it had. Of course exaggerated, but you get the point.

The LSD has good qualities on the street as well as the track. When launching hard on the street you want the power to be distributed evenly, and the LSD does this. Without it, you can have a one wheel peel. The LSD also helps a lot with wheel hop. The only down side to it is the turning radius.

The Starshield is a must.

[the1sen]

If you value the finish of your paint, you need to get the Star Shield - no questions asked.

What color are you getting? Starlight Black is the fastest color, by far.

[Moto44]

I've had an 05 Elise with sport suspension and an 08 Elise without. If you don't plan to track the car, you will be much more comfortable without the sport suspension. I don't know what the roads are like in Rhode Island, but here in Illinois, many of us with sport suspension are very selective about the roads we choose to drive because the sport suspension can be bone jarring over what appear to be small bumps in the pavement.

Welcome!

[Dino944]

Thanks guys,

I really appreciate your input regarding your experiences. I had never driven a Lotus until this weekend and it was very different from any sports cars I have driven in the past. On a dry sunny day with temps of about 65 degrees it was a real blast ! I asked about the AC because it was cool enough that I never needed to try it.

I was a bit concerned about these cars being problematic when I read about Seb's brothers experiences. But I was hoping that in general, with a Toyota power plan it would be fairly trouble free. Plus without it having a million computers I was hoping there would be less to go wrong with one. Quirks I can live with, something that will often leave me stranded by the side of the road, I can't live with. I'm not really mechanically inclined so I don't want something that requires me to become a part time Lotus Tech.

I'll have to do some searches to see what other forum posters say about Limited Slip. I like the idea of it, its currently on the only car we have that is not AWD. But if there are lots of problems with Lotus's LSD, then maybe I'd skip it.

I would definitely, go with some form of paint protection. We have it on our nicer cars. $995 seems higher than what I've seen on MBs and Porsches, but I'm sure there is something to be said for the ease of already having it done before the car get to the dealer.

The one surprise for me was how much fun it was to drive!

As for the1sen 's question, thanks for the advice I definitely want the FASTEST COLOR! I was actually thinking metalic black. I have been trying to view photos of cars on the net since Lotus's web site really doesn't help in terms of color choices.

I don't plan to track the car, so I guess I will give some thought as to the suspension. I believe the car I drove had the sport package since it had the "split spoke" wheels. It was definitely stiff, but I'm not sure if I would find it too stiff.

Thanks again for your help guys. All of your experiences and input are greatly appreciated.

Best regards,
Dino

[def]

Definitely take it to an autocross at least - whats the point of spending a lot of money for a toy if you never see what the toy can do at its limits? It's also a good idea to understand how the car handles in a safe environment... this car can spin easily.

[Seb]

It's like being married to a stripper and never railing her

[aschen]

If I could option one as I liked I would definately go for the LSD. Perhaps it is only good for coming out of tight corners. However very tight corners and transitions are the cars Raison D'etre. I also wouldent even consider a car without the sport package. Again the car has one purpose in life, and that is to handle well. I can't see why a slightly more comfortable elise is a worthwhile tradoff for handeling prowess.

[Lifespan]

I also agree you need to take it on a track at least once. I spent half a day lapping as part of an advanced driving course and not only was it a blast, but I learned a ton about driving the car. It makes you very confident in the car's handling abilities as well as your own ability to control it. That said, I don't see myself doing it again any time soon as it beats the hell out of the car and it's my daily. Really made me wish I had the cash to support the habit.

And on second thought to my original post, the sport suspension really is too stiff for regular road use. The traction control can be bought seperately (both through Lotus or aftermarket). A lot of people around here don't like it as proper throttle control can eliminate a need for it, but for casual driving it's nice to keep around when you loose a little traction pulling out of an intersection.

[sleepe]

Check out the search function...lots of answers

[JnC]

To reiterate my comment about the sport pack, it's really the tires that I don't see as that appropriate for a street only car. The Yoko Advan A048 are truly better sorted for the track or autocross. As such their treadwear and wet driving response isn't as forgiving as the base tire. And with their 15% stiffer sidewall, if you're not tracking it, you're living with it 100% of the time.

I missed the sticky toffee pudding tour this year, but a couple of years ago when I had the wonderful opportunity to drive at Lotus' test track at Hethel, all of the Elises that the instructors were flogging that day were on base tires and base suspension. I didn't drive anywhere near the limits of what the instructors could do, but the car in the right hands has ridiculously high limits. That said, keep in mind that the Elise is less forgiving than a Boxster, and more like a vintage 911 (before Porsche discovered electronic stability management) in terms of potential for a spin if you upset the balance of the car.

[Dino944]

Thanks for the great feedback guys. I hope to get a chance to take an advanced driving course one of these days. I'm not a terribly agressive driver so I hope not to see the tail end of the car swinging past the front end. I currently have a mid engine sports car so I'm pretty conscious of the weight transfer issues.

Def, any pix of your gray on red Elise. I was kind of thinking about metallic gray or metallic black with a red interior, although I believe unless it changes for 2010 if I choose the sport package I can only get a black interior.

I'd definitely get the touring package and paint protection, and I'm leaning toward LSD, and I may have to drive a car with the sport package just to be sure of the ride. I do with the Lotus website was a little better in terms of configuring possible cars but its fun considering possible variations of the car.

Again thank you all for your suggestions and experience.
Best regards,
Dino

[Dino944]

Originally Posted by JnC

That said, keep in mind that the Elise is less forgiving than a Boxster, and more like a vintage 911 (before Porsche discovered electronic stability management) in terms of potential for a spin if you upset the balance of the car.

I got that same impression that the Lotus was more like an early 911, while later 911s and Boxsters became almost idiot proof...not to mention a unnecessarily overweight with all the electronic gadgets.

I'll definitely do some tire research also, so thank you for the info on tire wall stiffness of the tires on the sport edition.

Best regards,
Dino

[MikeG911]

Welcome - I actually was going to buy an Elise when it came out in 2005, but got a G35. Was more refined, blah, blah, blah. I got rid of it in 2 years and got the Elise. I have had less problem with my Elise than I did with my G35. AC works fine for me in 99 degree FL weather. My only complaints thus far are the headlights - wish they were brighter, but I also have a TSX and those lights are fantastic. All in all, I really love my Elise.