On midengined cars and driving

[babak]

Originally posted by Randy Chase
But yes, with some experience you can control the spin to some extent. You know the old rule, both feet in hard.

Ok, so there is something that I don't understand after going through this thread. If you're starting to spin and go both feet in the rear end would get unloaded and have reduced traction and go arse end first.....Or is it that I'm thinking of this in terms of going through the corner and going in both feet which would make go butt first, instead of 'while' you're spinning?

[Barney Jr]

You can catch an oversteer situation perfectly with left foot braking.

edit: proof:

http://www.graham-walsh.com/carlimits/carlimits.wmv

[Randy Chase]

Originally posted by babak
Ok, so there is something that I don't understand after going through this thread. If you're starting to spin and go both feet in the rear end would get unloaded and have reduced traction and go arse end first.....Or is it that I'm thinking of this in terms of going through the corner and going in both feet which would make go butt first, instead of 'while' you're spinning?

Right. Both feet in is AFTER you fabulously fail at catching the spin.

[Edgar]

I would recommend that the " both feet in" option is to spin the car quickly to a stop before it hits anything.

If you really want to catch a sliding tail. "catch" being less appropriate than anticipate to correct, you might find it easier if you come off the brakes or gently lift the throttle depending on when you find oversteer, coupled with or without opposite lock.

[Randy Chase]

Originally posted by Edgar
I would recommend that the " both feet in" option is to spin the car quickly to a stop before it hits anything.

And to avoid engine damage from spinning the engine backwards.

Again, this is after you have lost it.

[thegit]

Originally posted by Barney Jr
You can catch an oversteer situation perfectly with left foot braking.

edit: proof:

http://www.graham-walsh.com/carlimits/carlimits.wmv

I would beg to differ that that would be proof only on a high grip concrete surface like an old airport runway.
The surface also has little or no camber personality, so I believe that even for an average driver like myself (with the ABS fuse in my FED Elise pulled) that stunt would be possible in that scenario.
I believe Walsh is also a pro driver in a controlled theatre, meaning that he had foreknowledge of the situation(he created it), which is different than me getting caught out at speed on a track or contaminated public road surface.
On a US road course of asphalt/tarmac and camber built in at higher speeds a different approach would be necessary.
With a mid engine rear drive car there are two ways to lose the rear.
first is too much load on the rear tires at the peak of the slip angle, and second is not enough load on the rear tires(or superior front grip) at some point of the rear tires' slip angles.
Best drivers know which problem it is and exactly what and how much correction is required without losing too much time.
In a front driver you add a little corrective lock and use the throttle to pull out of the unbalance, which may or may not be a no-no in the Elise.
m

[Barney Jr]

nah, it's easy as hell. I could even do it blindfolded *



















*possible lie of great magnitude

[thegit]

Originally posted by MyElise
Is that supposed to teach us to drive? Look at that guys hand placement on the wheel. Lame!

Funny, I thought that was the standard line for the Elise with the stock suspension and tires.

We have all read about what proper hand placement on the steering should do, but If you never become comfortable with a certain technique after persevering then you won't be as skilled or as quick.
Driver comfort is needed for confidence.
Quite a few of the top tier WRC pilots will drive one handed in certain situations for almost a stage.
m

[Barney Jr]

I'm confused, what's wrong with his hand placement?

[thegit]

Nowt wrong with his hand placement for that manoeuver.
Oh I see! He had his hands at 3 and 9 instead of 9 and 3
In certain areas of the US 10 and 2 hand placement is taught over the 9/3 method.

personally, I prefer a "necker Knob at 5'o'clock
m

[Barney Jr]

[TimMullen]

Originally posted by Barney Jr

I assume this is about "necker Knob at 5'o'clock"...

Necker knobs used to be common back in "the old days" - especially before power steering. It's a knob that's clamped to the steering wheel. To turn the wheel, you grab the necker knob with one hand, and crank the wheel as you would using a crank handle (the knob rotates on it's shaft).

It was handy so that you could drive down the road, steering with your arm around your girl friend (necking)...

[thegit]

If it's about the thumbs Barney, It is usually recommended NOT to have the thumbs located in such a way that the spokes of the steering wheel catch them, break them, and help your orthopedic surgeon buy another lexus.
I have sprained mine in the past during my autox days.
m

[Barney Jr]

lol, cheers Tim for the explanation

about the thumbs, I always have my thumbs in the same way as Walshy has. Can't see the risk of breaking being that high unless you're really doing some destruction derby? It sure as hell steers nicer IMO

[Randy Chase]

I recall an autocross incident in my MR2. Grippy tires on concrete. Got into a small bit of trouble... and the car violently reacted.

It jerked the wheel out of my hands causing a strain in my wrist that hurt for a long time.

Raised welts and black/blue marks from my harness straps also. Had to explain those when I got home.

[Barney Jr]

phew, good thing I never crash or make mistakes then (famous last words...)

Will try to remember to keep the 'thumbs up' . Will take some training though as gripping it with your thumb is the most natural and easy way to hold a steering wheel

[Randy Chase]

I have some really bad habits when racing..much worse than thumbs.

Like letting go of the wheel.

[Barney Jr]

to correct a slide I presume? I know that's suppost to work, but I'll never ever let go of the wheel.

[offroadr35]

i find the elise steering wheel really promotes good hand placement. 9 and 3 with thumbs on the thumb pads...is there something wrong with that?

-Steve

[Barney Jr]

YES!! IF YOU MAKE A MISTAKE YOU DIE A HORRIBLE DEATH*

















*actually, you run the risk of injuring your thumbs