New guy from Kansas - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
 
LotusTalk.com is the premier Lotus Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-06-2013, 07:42 PM   #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Overland Park, Kansas
Posts: 13
New guy from Kansas

Hey everybody, my names Austin and I just recently turned 18 in December . I joined the forum a few days ago and I have been private messaging some people here to learn a little bit about these cars. That's why I still haven't made my first post yet! Anyway, I am selling my current car right now and also working at a grocery store to save up around 10k to be able to buy whatever my next car may be. The main 3 that I have narrowed it down to are a 2005 lotus elise, 2006 c6 corvette, or a 2011 mustang gt. all 3 of them have their own pluses and minuses, so its going to be a difficult choice!

I'd have around the 25k that I am wanting to save up to ( with the sale of my current car included in that of course) by this summer. So the goal is to have my new car before college starts basically. And that's what I'm most worried about with the lotus. I'm just a little worried that some jealous person might do something stupid to it at school. Where as I think a corvette or mustang wouldn't be messed with anywhere near as much.

This car would also be my daily driver for most likely at least the next 4 years. The winters here in Kansas are typically pretty dry. Very little snow typically, just a lot of cold. However if I needed another car to drive for a few days that wouldn't be an issue.

Surpringly all 3 cars are priced right around the same on insurance. With me as the driver for 6k mi a year, it would only be 600 every 6 months for the insurance. And surpringly the corvette is actually the cheapest on insurance there.

I would really like to go and see all of these cars before I buy any of them though, because like I've read so many times on this forum, once you drive them all, you'll know! I've owned 2 mustangs previously, both 2005s, one a v6 and the other a v8, both manuals also. So I have a good idea what the new mustang would be like, still would like to drive one though of course! Not worried about test driving a c6, seeing as how my dad owns a c6 z06. I'm not looking at the z, but the c6 and c6z would be more or less the same on a normal drive. The elise is the one I'm really wanting to check out though. Completely different than anything else out there, and definitely anything else I've ever driven!!

Basically with this thread I just wanted to introduce myself and I also wanted to ask the question of: Do you guys think a student in college owning a lotus elise would just be asking for trouble, especially as a daily driver? Or do you guys think it could be fairly easily done?

Thanks for taking the time to read this and I look forward to getting to know everyone on here, and maybe even join the lotus club!!
Invert is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 01-06-2013, 07:52 PM   #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Heavyweight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Torrance CA
Posts: 697
Welcome Austin
__________________
2008 Burnt Orange Exige
Heavyweight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2013, 08:04 PM   #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Los Alamitos, CA
Posts: 1,865
The Mustang is so heavy I would steer away from it. Plus, everyone has a Mustang. The Corvette is a better choice, but obviously not as exclusive as a Lotus.

I have a 2007 C6 (401rwhp) and a 2007 Exige S (281 rwhp). Completely different cars. Believe it or not the Corvette will get better highway mileage.

The Lotus will change the way you judge all other cars. Don't drive one unless you plan on buying one. I would think the insurance will be much higher on the Lotus.

San
oldmansan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2013, 08:04 PM   #4 (permalink)
Premium Member
 
GuppyCaptain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lake Wallenpaupack, Pocono Mountains, PA
Posts: 1,627
Images: 2
Out of those three cars you listed, the Elise is the least suitable for DDing, but honestly the biggest concern for me would still be the winter weather. I know you guys don't get a ton of snow, but you get your share of ice and "stuff". It's NOT a good car for that.

I don't know man. I'd stick with the Mustang out of those three. It's the most practical as a daily driver. Why not get a 5K DDer and an Elise on the side? It really is more suited as a secondary car and not a primary.

As far as it being a target? Um, yeah. All you have to do is piss one person off on campus and they already know your car. I'd be a little paranoid that's for sure. Again, get the Mustang or get a cheap beater as a daily and the Elise as a secondary.

Just my two cents. At least you're not on here asking for advice on how to convince your parents to buy you a Lotus. Btw, if you go the Elise route make sure you look into the MoMo edition. TRUST ME
__________________
2009 CO Elise SC (R.I.P)
2012 Solar Yellow Evora S
6 spd., 2+2, PB Racing Monza Wheels, Plack Exhaust & one bad ass air freshener
GuppyCaptain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2013, 08:31 PM   #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Heavyweight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Torrance CA
Posts: 697
hahaha guppy awesome
__________________
2008 Burnt Orange Exige
Heavyweight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2013, 08:32 PM   #6 (permalink)
Premium Member
 
GuppyCaptain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lake Wallenpaupack, Pocono Mountains, PA
Posts: 1,627
Images: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavyweight View Post
hahaha guppy awesome

Shhhhhh
__________________
2009 CO Elise SC (R.I.P)
2012 Solar Yellow Evora S
6 spd., 2+2, PB Racing Monza Wheels, Plack Exhaust & one bad ass air freshener
GuppyCaptain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2013, 08:33 PM   #7 (permalink)
Premium Member
 
GuppyCaptain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lake Wallenpaupack, Pocono Mountains, PA
Posts: 1,627
Images: 2
Actually Heavyweight, you should be the one chiming in on this topic since you've got the Exige and had Mustangs before.
__________________
2009 CO Elise SC (R.I.P)
2012 Solar Yellow Evora S
6 spd., 2+2, PB Racing Monza Wheels, Plack Exhaust & one bad ass air freshener
GuppyCaptain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2013, 08:38 PM   #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Overland Park, Kansas
Posts: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavyweight View Post
Welcome Austin
This is the guy that's getting me hooked right here. you've helped me a ton man!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmansan View Post
The Mustang is so heavy I would steer away from it. Plus, everyone has a Mustang. The Corvette is a better choice, but obviously not as exclusive as a Lotus.

I have a 2007 C6 (401rwhp) and a 2007 Exige S (281 rwhp). Completely different cars. Believe it or not the Corvette will get better highway mileage.

The Lotus will change the way you judge all other cars. Don't drive one unless you plan on buying one. I would think the insurance will be much higher on the Lotus.

San
No kidding about everyone has a mustang. You could drive down a 1 mile road and see 3 different mustangs, 1 of which is probably the same color as yours... how would you compare your lotus to your corvette as far as just ease of driving and fun factor? Do you dd either of those?

Yea your right the lotus is actually the highest of them all. The 06 c6 is $505 every 6 months. The 11 gt is $589, which is surprising. And the elise is $606.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuppyCaptain View Post
Out of those three cars you listed, the Elise is the least suitable for DDing, but honestly the biggest concern for me would still be the winter weather. I know you guys don't get a ton of snow, but you get your share of ice and "stuff". It's NOT a good car for that.

I don't know man. I'd stick with the Mustang out of those three. It's the most practical as a daily driver. Why not get a 5K DDer and an Elise on the side? It really is more suited as a secondary car and not a primary.

As far as it being a target? Um, yeah. All you have to do is piss one person off on campus and they already know your car. I'd be a little paranoid that's for sure. Again, get the Mustang or get a cheap beater as a daily and the Elise as a secondary.

Just my two cents. At least you're not on here asking for advice on how to convince your parents to buy you a Lotus. Btw, if you go the Elise route make sure you look into the MoMo edition. TRUST ME
Yea we do get some ice sometimes. How do winter tires do on this car? Do they even have tcs?

I'd agree with the mustang being the most practical, but most practical isn't always the most fun!! I've thought about the 2 car idea before, actually asked my dad what he would think about me trying to do that, and he didnt like the idea because then its just 2 of everything and he thinks a second car would be unnecessary at this point.

I tend to not be one to make any enemies at all, but of course anything can happen, and it doesn't even have to be someone that knows me that does something to it...

Thanks! My parents have let me earn their trust over time starting with slower, cheaper things of course. When I was 15 I had a ninja 250 which I put 3k mi on. When I was 16 I sold the ninja and got a 2007 GSXR 600. Put 5k mi on that. No tickets or anything on those! You have no idea how much convincing the little ninja 250 took! My dad was always on board because he loves cars/bikes. Mom hated it of course. I ended up saving up my own money, and after they saw how dedicated I was, they let me buy my very own 2008 ninja 250!

Last edited by Invert; 01-06-2013 at 08:43 PM.
Invert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2013, 08:41 PM   #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Overland Park, Kansas
Posts: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuppyCaptain View Post
Actually Heavyweight, you should be the one chiming in on this topic since you've got the Exige and had Mustangs before.
He's actually the one that I was referring to about talking in the private messages. Definitely helped me out a ton with figuring out what I want

Btw guppy, now I need to go look up pics of this momo edition!!
Invert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2013, 08:51 PM   #10 (permalink)
Premium Member
 
GuppyCaptain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lake Wallenpaupack, Pocono Mountains, PA
Posts: 1,627
Images: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Invert View Post
He's actually the one that I was referring to about talking in the private messages. Definitely helped me out a ton with figuring out what I want

Btw guppy, now I need to go look up pics of this momo edition!!




No, no, no man! That's an inside joke on this forum. Some guy listed an Elise a while ago and claimed it was the "MoMo Edition". There's no such thing so now it's a running joke. Sorry. I couldn't resist, but let me know if you find any pix of that version
__________________
2009 CO Elise SC (R.I.P)
2012 Solar Yellow Evora S
6 spd., 2+2, PB Racing Monza Wheels, Plack Exhaust & one bad ass air freshener
GuppyCaptain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2013, 08:56 PM   #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Los Alamitos, CA
Posts: 1,865
Quote:
Originally Posted by Invert View Post



No kidding about everyone has a mustang. You could drive down a 1 mile road and see 3 different mustangs, 1 of which is probably the same color as yours... how would you compare your lotus to your corvette as far as just ease of driving fun factor? Do you dd either of those?

Yea your right the lotus is actually the highest of them all. The 06 c6 is $505 every 6 months. The 11 gt is $589, which is surprising. And the elise is $606.


My C6 is my daily driver. Compared to the Lotus it is very practical. Lots of rear hatch space and feels like a Cadillac, even with aftermarket suspension. They're both nice cars but the Lotus is over the top with regards to attention it gets.

BTW, you couldn't pick a better time to buy a C6. With the C7 coming out next week, there are a lot of good deals to be had.

You mentioned a Ninja, here's mine. ZX-10R (178rwhp).



Exige and C6



San
oldmansan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2013, 09:05 PM   #12 (permalink)
Premium Member
 
GuppyCaptain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lake Wallenpaupack, Pocono Mountains, PA
Posts: 1,627
Images: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Invert View Post
This is the guy that's getting me hooked right here. you've helped me a ton man!!



No kidding about everyone has a mustang. You could drive down a 1 mile road and see 3 different mustangs, 1 of which is probably the same color as yours... how would you compare your lotus to your corvette as far as just ease of driving and fun factor? Do you dd either of those?

Yea your right the lotus is actually the highest of them all. The 06 c6 is $505 every 6 months. The 11 gt is $589, which is surprising. And the elise is $606.



Yea we do get some ice sometimes. How do winter tires do on this car? Do they even have tcs?

I'd agree with the mustang being the most practical, but most practical isn't always the most fun!! I've thought about the 2 car idea before, actually asked my dad what he would think about me trying to do that, and he didnt like the idea because then its just 2 of everything and he thinks a second car would be unnecessary at this point.

I tend to not be one to make any enemies at all, but of course anything can happen, and it doesn't even have to be someone that knows me that does something to it...

Thanks! My parents have let me earn their trust over time starting with slower, cheaper things of course. When I was 15 I had a ninja 250 which I put 3k mi on. When I was 16 I sold the ninja and got a 2007 GSXR 600. Put 5k mi on that. No tickets or anything on those! You have no idea how much convincing the little ninja 250 took! My dad was always on board because he loves cars/bikes. Mom hated it of course. I ended up saving up my own money, and after they saw how dedicated I was, they let me buy my very own 2008 ninja 250!
I'm sure winter tires would be an improvement but honestly what would be the point of having an Elise if it handled like crap because of winter tires. Also, the thing weighs so little that even with the winters on it, it probably still doesn't do well in the slippery weather. That's just me guessing though. Maybe someone who actually has experience with it could chime in.

Your Dad's got a point about the two car thing. Two inspections, registrations, sets of tires, blah, blah, blah. He's right in that respect.

As for the bikes? Dude, I have no idea how you roped your parents into that. I would never let my kid own a crotch rocket and I can't tell you how much I lusted after one post college. I wanted one SOOOO bad, but one doesn't do all that well in my chosen profession with a missing appendage or worse....paralyzed, so I exercised some restraint and got a MR2 instead

More power to you if you were able to have crotch rockets and not get a ticket. You're like superhuman or something.

As for people keying it and messing with it, all I can say is that one doesn't need to have enemies for some jealous A-hole to get a twinge up his ass to do something to your car. People are idiots. I'm talking about adults. You're talking about college boys, so multiply the potential for douchebaggery by a few points.

Look, only you know your surroundings and circumstances. Maybe you go to a college that's pretty low-key and people are respectful (like much of Kansas and Kansans). What part of KS are you from and in that part how many days during the winter season could you really not drive an Elise. You know the answers to stuff like that better than we do. Go with your gut. Get good insurance on it with a low deductible so that way if some assrod decides to key it......

Oh, and make sure you check out that limited edition we keep telling you about
__________________
2009 CO Elise SC (R.I.P)
2012 Solar Yellow Evora S
6 spd., 2+2, PB Racing Monza Wheels, Plack Exhaust & one bad ass air freshener
GuppyCaptain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2013, 09:06 PM   #13 (permalink)
Premium Member
 
GuppyCaptain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lake Wallenpaupack, Pocono Mountains, PA
Posts: 1,627
Images: 2
Oh, and one more thing. If getting tail is of any concern to you GET THE ELISE FOR GOD'S SAKE!
__________________
2009 CO Elise SC (R.I.P)
2012 Solar Yellow Evora S
6 spd., 2+2, PB Racing Monza Wheels, Plack Exhaust & one bad ass air freshener
GuppyCaptain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2013, 10:08 PM   #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Hextavo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Ohio
Posts: 550
Welcome, I'd say 25k will get you a decent Elise, but keep in mind it will be an 05. No TC, tires will probably be at 50% or less. Then on top of that you will have title, tax, registration. Transport fees (since I'm sure you aren't going to find too many Elises in Kansas). So now if your smart you will want to check out the Elise before you buy it.. So hopefully you pick out a good one before you go and don't waste your money. So I guess if you have 25k to purchase, and another 5-10k for everything else including insurance then your financially able to purchase the car.

As for practicality, I don't think I could ever DD this car and I would never park this outside, so unless you get a private garage at your college, have fun worrying someones going to mess with it. Lastly if you curb this car or get in any sort of a fender bender, you will be paying probably 3x as much as the other to options if not more.

Not saying don't do it, but I'd really consider something else in your shoes.. Maybe when your ready to buy prices will be cheaper. However I feel prices will only go up, since there aren't any new ones coming in..

Goodluck!
Hextavo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 05:34 AM   #15 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Overland Park, Kansas
Posts: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuppyCaptain View Post




No, no, no man! That's an inside joke on this forum. Some guy listed an Elise a while ago and claimed it was the "MoMo Edition". There's no such thing so now it's a running joke. Sorry. I couldn't resist, but let me know if you find any pix of that version
Hahahahahahahahahaha this whole time I seriously thought swinglo had 1 of 10 momo edition Elise's...
Invert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 05:51 AM   #16 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Overland Park, Kansas
Posts: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldmansan View Post
My C6 is my daily driver. Compared to the Lotus it is very practical. Lots of rear hatch space and feels like a Cadillac, even with aftermarket suspension. They're both nice cars but the Lotus is over the top with regards to attention it gets.

BTW, you couldn't pick a better time to buy a C6. With the C7 coming out next week, there are a lot of good deals to be had.

You mentioned a Ninja, here's mine. ZX-10R (178rwhp).



Exige and C6



San
Do you ever daily drive the exige for like a week or so? Or is it more of just a track car?

All 3 of your vehicles right there are gorgeous!! I can see why the lotus draws so much attention!!

Would you almost say the lotus draws too much attention? Or do you not mind driving it with the attention it get?

Yea my dad keeps telling me the me thing too. With the c7 coming out soon, odds are clean c6s will be on the lower 20s side.

I bet your 10r flies!! It looks like an 09-10?
Invert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 06:00 AM   #17 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Overland Park, Kansas
Posts: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuppyCaptain View Post
I'm sure winter tires would be an improvement but honestly what would be the point of having an Elise if it handled like crap because of winter tires. Also, the thing weighs so little that even with the winters on it, it probably still doesn't do well in the slippery weather. That's just me guessing though. Maybe someone who actually has experience with it could chime in.

Your Dad's got a point about the two car thing. Two inspections, registrations, sets of tires, blah, blah, blah. He's right in that respect.

As for the bikes? Dude, I have no idea how you roped your parents into that. I would never let my kid own a crotch rocket and I can't tell you how much I lusted after one post college. I wanted one SOOOO bad, but one doesn't do all that well in my chosen profession with a missing appendage or worse....paralyzed, so I exercised some restraint and got a MR2 instead

More power to you if you were able to have crotch rockets and not get a ticket. You're like superhuman or something.

As for people keying it and messing with it, all I can say is that one doesn't need to have enemies for some jealous A-hole to get a twinge up his ass to do something to your car. People are idiots. I'm talking about adults. You're talking about college boys, so multiply the potential for douchebaggery by a few points.

Look, only you know your surroundings and circumstances. Maybe you go to a college that's pretty low-key and people are respectful (like much of Kansas and Kansans). What part of KS are you from and in that part how many days during the winter season could you really not drive an Elise. You know the answers to stuff like that better than we do. Go with your gut. Get good insurance on it with a low deductible so that way if some assrod decides to key it......

Oh, and make sure you check out that limited edition we keep telling you about
Well if I did get winter tires it would most likely be on a second set of rims. Would you guys say its a waste of time to even put something like all seasons on it cause it doesn't take full advantage of the car?

Thank you about the bike. No tickets, no wrecks, no laydowns, nothing! Not sure if I would ever get another one though, there is a lot of dumb things that can easily happen to you, even if its not your fault.

Yea school parking I'm still a little concerned about, but this area is generally a nicer area. Stuff could still happen though

I would guess per year, there is at a max 1-2weeks that I could not drive it. Some years more, some less. Last year for instance, I could've driven it the whole year, we had nothing last year.
Invert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 06:09 AM   #18 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Overland Park, Kansas
Posts: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hextavo View Post
Welcome, I'd say 25k will get you a decent Elise, but keep in mind it will be an 05. No TC, tires will probably be at 50% or less. Then on top of that you will have title, tax, registration. Transport fees (since I'm sure you aren't going to find too many Elises in Kansas). So now if your smart you will want to check out the Elise before you buy it.. So hopefully you pick out a good one before you go and don't waste your money. So I guess if you have 25k to purchase, and another 5-10k for everything else including insurance then your financially able to purchase the car.

As for practicality, I don't think I could ever DD this car and I would never park this outside, so unless you get a private garage at your college, have fun worrying someones going to mess with it. Lastly if you curb this car or get in any sort of a fender bender, you will be paying probably 3x as much as the other to options if not more.

Not saying don't do it, but I'd really consider something else in your shoes.. Maybe when your ready to buy prices will be cheaper. However I feel prices will only go up, since there aren't any new ones coming in..

Goodluck!
Yea that's a good point on what the total costs to bring it home would be. Registering the car is typically around 10% of purchase, so around $2500 just for that. Insurance, $600. We would probably drive out to wherever it is, unless its on either side of the country ( California or Florida ) then we would fly out and then drive it back. That's what we did this summer when we got my dads z06.

So on the second part your talking about clam damage right? If something like that we're to happen do you HAVE to replace or could you let it slide for a little while? Like if you were to hit a curb would it affect the drivability with the dmaged clam, or would it still be ok to drive. Me and my dad have done fiberglass repairs on cars before... How hard do you think it would be to repair the lotus?

I agree with the prices. From what I've seen, it looks like they are at the lowest they a ever going to be, if not might even start going up. If you had to recommend me some other ideas, in around that 20-25k price range, what would look at first for a student? Btw, I absolutely have to have a manual

Thanks man
Invert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 05:09 PM   #19 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Los Alamitos, CA
Posts: 1,865
Quote:
Originally Posted by Invert View Post
Do you ever daily drive the exige for like a week or so? Or is it more of just a track car?

All 3 of your vehicles right there are gorgeous!! I can see why the lotus draws so much attention!!

Would you almost say the lotus draws too much attention? Or do you not mind driving it with the attention it get?

Yea my dad keeps telling me the me thing too. With the c7 coming out soon, odds are clean c6s will be on the lower 20s side.

I bet your 10r flies!! It looks like an 09-10?
Mostly a weekend toy. It does attract a lot of attention, but it doesn't bother me. ZX-10R is a 2008. It is very fast and is trying to kill me every time out.

San
oldmansan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 05:41 PM   #20 (permalink)
Me!
7 lbs/hp
 
Me!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,550
Welcome!

My 2 cents:
1.) It is nice to finally see a young person try and buy a Lotus with their OWN money and not their parents!
2.) Sorry, but an Elise would be a TERRIBLE college car. I graduated almost two years ago and I am happy I never had a Lotus. They are too small and too fragile. I mean you can't take all your laundry home, your friends can't jump in your car to go places, etc... My biggest worry would be the parking situation. I mean lots of students can't park, and if they bump you, that could be a $5,000.00+ repair bill. Lets not forget jealousy and vandalism that could happen (especially drunk college students).

My advice is to wait... But then again maybe college has changed a bit in the past two years...

Either way good luck, and thanks for making said purchase with your own money that you earned yourself!!
__________________
2007 Storm Titanium Exige S w/ sunvisor delete
Me! is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community > Lotus Discussions > Hi, I'm new here



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:18 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2
Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.