F1 Austin, TX. U.S.A. **Spoilers** - Page 2 - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
 
LotusTalk.com is the premier Lotus Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-19-2012, 12:14 PM   #21 (permalink)
Registered User
 
eurosport's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 265
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus757 View Post
From RACER

"Everything is good. Everyone is happy. Everyone in Austin seems happy. It is good when you do something and it works."

This article originally appeared in Autosport.com
I wonder if Tavo was still happy...
__________________
Eric H.
'77 Esprit S1 "project"/'94 RX-7 R2/'07 Volvo XC90 V8 AWD/'12 Evoque/'00 RC51/'14 WRX STI hatch
?? '10 (or maybe '11, or maybe hybrid, maybe '12, maybe '13, maybe '16) Esprit
eurosport is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 11-19-2012, 02:00 PM   #22 (permalink)
Registered User
 
DeanG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,792
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Sam View Post
Why only 24? To keep poor people like me out? How about 100 participants and no driving instructor, transportation and timing system for $500 each? Just b*****n, I want to drive this track. How about a LOG in Austin?
An Austin LOG based at COTA would be great.

Unfortunately it is kind of a long drive from the people who actually go to LOGs. The Alabama & Georgia people would probably attend. The crazy people from Colorado would go. The regulars, mostly from New England, NY/NJ, & the mid-Atlantic would go. You could count the Californians who would attend on one hand and there would be more of them than everyone from Washington to Wyoming combined.
DeanG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 02:55 PM   #23 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by apk919 View Post
So, opinions on whether Ferrari's "strategy" was poor sportsmanship?

i.e. "our 'best' driver could only manage 8th on the grid, so we decided to force our second driver to take a five grid spot penalty to give our 'best' driver a better chance of minimizing his increasing gap to the points leader"

Seriously, I would have been embarrassed if I was Alonso.
McLaren team principal Martin Whitmarsh suggested that Ferrari's tactic was exactly the kind of policy that his outfit's reluctance to get involved had displeased Alonso during their ill-fated 2007 partnership.

"it was not doing those things that meant that Fernando left us."
Red Mist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 02:56 PM   #24 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 84
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by apk919 View Post
So, opinions on whether Ferrari's "strategy" was poor sportsmanship?

i.e. "our 'best' driver could only manage 8th on the grid, so we decided to force our second driver to take a five grid spot penalty to give our 'best' driver a better chance of minimizing his increasing gap to the points leader"

Seriously, I would have been embarrassed if I was Alonso.
Counterpoint:

They played by the rules open and fairly.

To quote Alonso "[I'm] proud of this decision but more proud of this decision to say the truth, sometimes when teams take decisions not many people say the truth."

Red Bull team boss Christian Horner said he understood Ferrari's decision.

"It's within the regulations; it's a tactical move," he said.

"They obviously made that decision to get Fernando on to the right hand side of the grid and it worked well for him.

Alsono drove a good race. He completed a great pass at the beginning of the race and then drove consistently to hold 3rd place in a under performing car.

Alsono is a two time world champion and I doubt he is embarrassed at all. The lap charts show Alsono consistently faster than Massa during the race (except the slow pit stop where they had trouble with the right rear tire) He finished with a six second edge on Massa even with the slow pit.

Team work in motorsports is common. Teammates often draft and block for each other this is no different.
Ron323 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 03:07 PM   #25 (permalink)
Registered User
 
apk919's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: New Yawk City & Sandy Eggo
Posts: 9,714
Images: 20
I see it a bit differently than the usual "team orders"...

Ferrari intentionally and unnecessarily violated the rules of parc ferme in order to trigger a penalty... it is a slippery slope from this to asking Piquet Jr. to intentionally crash in order to bring out the safety car.

EDIT: What about this hypothetical situation? The team's #1 driver sets provisional pole during Q3... the team orders the #2 driver to come to a stop off track near a critical part of the track and cause a local yellow, preventing anyone from beating the #1 driver's lap. Fair? Legal?
__________________
Come along for a ride: my videos
2007 Aspen White Lotus Exige S (street ride)
2010 Isotope Green Lotus 2-Eleven (track ride)
2012 Radical SR3RS

Last edited by apk919; 11-19-2012 at 03:16 PM.
apk919 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 03:08 PM   #26 (permalink)
Registered User
 
fitfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: San Diego!
Posts: 6,699
..if thats the way the FIA wants to run the sport than it is what it is... i don't see this as Ferraris problem.....
__________________
"I really started paying attention to cars was when they came out with the Nissan Z, the first body. Then I seen the Cherokees, the old square ones, and I was like, “Wow, that’s cool.” Then I seen the Isuzu jeeps and I seen the Wranglers."
-Lotus Cars VP of Global Design
fitfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 05:00 PM   #27 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 84
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by apk919 View Post
I see it a bit differently than the usual "team orders"...

Ferrari intentionally and unnecessarily violated the rules of parc ferme in order to trigger a penalty... it is a slippery slope from this to asking Piquet Jr. to intentionally crash in order to bring out the safety car.

EDIT: What about this hypothetical situation? The team's #1 driver sets provisional pole during Q3... the team orders the #2 driver to come to a stop off track near a critical part of the track and cause a local yellow, preventing anyone from beating the #1 driver's lap. Fair? Legal?
For me this is comparing apples to oranges? What is the penalty for your example? Is there a penalty? Perhaps it is just poor sportsmanship?

In the Alsono situation there was a price and they paid it and for me that like Red Bull called it "a tactical decision".

But then again your view is probably much more of a combatant and mine and fan/observer.
Ron323 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 05:42 PM   #28 (permalink)
Registered User
 
forkmeupscotty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Mountain View
Posts: 1,146
Quote:
Originally Posted by apk919 View Post
I see it a bit differently than the usual "team orders"...

Ferrari intentionally and unnecessarily violated the rules of parc ferme in order to trigger a penalty... it is a slippery slope from this to asking Piquet Jr. to intentionally crash in order to bring out the safety car.

EDIT: What about this hypothetical situation? The team's #1 driver sets provisional pole during Q3... the team orders the #2 driver to come to a stop off track near a critical part of the track and cause a local yellow, preventing anyone from beating the #1 driver's lap. Fair? Legal?
They would be frowned upon even more because then you're potentially bringing up safety issues.
Getting 5 spot grid penalty definitely does not put anyone in danger.

Or how about Redbull rebuilding the entire car after parc ferme after having violated the the 1 liter fuel rule at qualifying? They were at the back of the grid already, so you can't punish them any farther back.
It's a tactical decision.
Or how about the whole bendy wing thing or having the entire nose be flexible?
That'd be intelligently skirting the rule book.

__________________
2008 Lotus Exige S240 Phantom Black - Starshield, Touring Pack, Track Pack, LSD, Premier Gold Pack
2008 BMW 535i - Sport Pkg, SportAT, etc

http://www.youtube.com/forkmeupscotty
forkmeupscotty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 05:43 PM   #29 (permalink)
Registered User
 
apk919's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: New Yawk City & Sandy Eggo
Posts: 9,714
Images: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron323 View Post
For me this is comparing apples to oranges? What is the penalty for your example? Is there a penalty? Perhaps it is just poor sportsmanship?

In the Alsono situation there was a price and they paid it and for me that like Red Bull called it "a tactical decision".

But then again your view is probably much more of a combatant and mine and fan/observer.
There "might" be a 5 or 10 grid spot (or worse) penalty given to a car that intentionally stops on track... but how could that be definitively proven? There are many reasons a team might order a driver to stop on track that can't necessarily be proven to be intentional. In any case, the other driver would not be punished, and would benefit from the results of the yellow.

In the actual case of Schumacher stopping on track during Q3 while he was provisional polesitter at Monte Carlo, he was sent to the back of the pack for the race. They didn't "prove" Schumacher intentionally stopped; they didn't have to... it was up to them to decide his motives.

In the actual case of Piquet Jr. crashing his car on the orders of Flavio Briatore, it was a contributing factor in Alonso's win, which was allowed to stand. Flavio was banned from F1, and Piquet's reputation destroyed.

As fitfan said, if this is how the FIA decides to handle intentional infractions, then we can be sure to see more of this... unless they determine it's bad for the sport.
__________________
Come along for a ride: my videos
2007 Aspen White Lotus Exige S (street ride)
2010 Isotope Green Lotus 2-Eleven (track ride)
2012 Radical SR3RS
apk919 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 05:45 PM   #30 (permalink)
Registered User
 
apk919's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: New Yawk City & Sandy Eggo
Posts: 9,714
Images: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by forkmeupscotty View Post
They would be frowned upon even more because then you're potentially bringing up safety issues.
Getting 5 spot grid penalty definitely does not put anyone in danger.

Or how about Redbull rebuilding the entire car after parc ferme after having violated the the 1 liter fuel rule at qualifying? They were at the back of the grid already, so you can't punish them any farther back.
It's a tactical decision.
Or how about the whole bendy wing thing or having the entire nose be flexible?
That'd be intelligently skirting the rule book.

You always have the option of starting from pit lane... and that option allows you to make changes to the car you wouldn't be able to if you took a place on the grid. But it is an *option*, not a penalty for a rules infraction. Starting from pit lane is a definite disadvantage, because you're not allowed to leave until all the cars on the grid pass the pit-out. RBR's penalty for the fuel violation was to go to the back of the grid... but that still allowed them the option to start from pit lane.

There's also a big difference between trying to take *full* advantage of the rules (and clearly hoping to be found in compliance), and intentionally violating the rules for team advantage.
__________________
Come along for a ride: my videos
2007 Aspen White Lotus Exige S (street ride)
2010 Isotope Green Lotus 2-Eleven (track ride)
2012 Radical SR3RS

Last edited by apk919; 11-19-2012 at 05:52 PM.
apk919 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2012, 09:53 AM   #31 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Lotus757's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Back of Bill's Mother's
Posts: 206
Just a few quirks that did not really detract from the race; T2 cell coverage was nonexistent, Jumbotron across from T2 not Jumbo enough to see, dust in parking lot was choking and it was total chaos getting out of the parking lot. No controls or direction until the exit. One final note; the City of Austin shut down the Metro Northbound at 6:30 pm, so for those of us not downtown were screwed out of a planned final night in town.

That said, overall it was freaking fantastic!
__________________
The reason I talk to myself is because I’m the only one whose answers I accept.
Lotus757 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2012, 10:14 AM   #32 (permalink)
Premium Member
 
GuppyCaptain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lake Wallenpaupack, Pocono Mountains, PA
Posts: 1,631
Images: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus757 View Post
Just a few quirks that did not really detract from the race; T2 cell coverage was nonexistent, Jumbotron across from T2 not Jumbo enough to see, dust in parking lot was choking and it was total chaos getting out of the parking lot. No controls or direction until the exit. One final note; the City of Austin shut down the Metro Northbound at 6:30 pm, so for those of us not downtown were screwed out of a planned final night in town.

That said, overall it was freaking fantastic!
Yup, the screen at T6 was to small to see w/o binos. That's got to get fixed for next year.
__________________
2009 CO Elise SC (R.I.P)
2012 Solar Yellow Evora S
6 spd., 2+2, PB Racing Monza Wheels, Plack Exhaust & one bad ass air freshener
GuppyCaptain is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2012, 11:28 AM   #33 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: austin texas
Posts: 1,149
The party is just getting started! Moto GP, Grand Am and Australian v8s are coming. FYI: For those that attended the F1 race, notice that most of the bleachers were temporary so General Admission will work a lot better.
texige is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2012, 11:34 AM   #34 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Julian73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Longview, Texas
Posts: 2,606
Garage
The racing was great, better than great!
Lotus had a failed start and a later 9 sec pit stop with a wheel problem that put a lot of traffic between them and podium.
First year racing facilities were great, other than the dust but hopefully COTA will take our money and finish the 3 through 12 regions with paths, grass and paved parking.
The Jumbo-trons were so far away one needed binoculars to find the screen let alone read it; glad for the FanVision device, but don’t understand why not on an app with a license fee for the weekend. We get higher def and more units, FanVisions gets near same revenue (and higher income) than rentals plus gets out of the hardware logistics business.
Also track needs more and taller position poles; this is something NASCAR does well.
__________________
'12 Evora S GP Special Edition #1/14 with BOE-KomoTec Stage 1.8 (BOE CAI, Custom BOE Tune and Larini Sport on top of KomoTec Stage 1)
Lotus Driving Academy Level 3 School 1:1 w/ Ed Morris @ Hethel
New to piston power, my track toys have Rotaries
Julian73 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 07:32 AM   #35 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Periscope Depth
Posts: 77
I think major increases in bandwidth are needed before even THINKING about an app based FanVision.

Very glad for FanVision at T1, esp since there was NO cell coverage (AT&T).

Great race, but we definitely chose the wrong place at T1: T12 was where it was at!
__________________
CDR, USN Submariner
2003 Mazda Rev-it-up 10th Overall
2005 Magnetic Blue Elise LSS/Touring/HT/SS/VF Stage II
1988 Honda CRX Si Bubba!! Serious Autox Car 184 STS
2005 Subaru WRX STi Beater. Fast Beater. Heh.
2007 Mazdaspeed 3
scapamouche is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 08:01 AM   #36 (permalink)
Registered User
 
keatre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North Dallas, TX
Posts: 218
Garage
Turn 12 - crappy cell phone shot. Where I saw Hammy pass Vettle!


Larger Image
keatre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 05:19 PM   #37 (permalink)
Registered User
 
tractionxfer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Maryland
Posts: 6
Nice photo. That's probably me standing on the marshals' stand beneath the "turn left here" arrow.

We had quite a few Lotusheads in that section; Sam and JoAnne Youngman were in grandstand 12, and track rat extraordinaire Rich Soule stopped by to say hi at the fenceline.

Last edited by tractionxfer; 12-03-2012 at 05:26 PM.
tractionxfer is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community > Motorsports > The Racing Den



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 08:20 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2
Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.