Lotus Forum Lotus Forum
Go Back   LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community > Motorsports > The Racing Den
User Name
Password
Register Home Forums Active Topics Gallery Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


       
Registered Members do not see the above ads. Please Register Today - It's quick and free!
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 05-12-2009, 09:15 AM   #1 (permalink)
Every Car is a Project
 
sleeprfocus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 817
Ferrari to boycott 2010 (CNN)

Ferrari to boycott 2010 F1 world champs - CNN.com

Quote:
(CNN) -- Ferrari rocked the world of motor racing on Tuesday when the Italian Formula 1 giants announced they will not be entering a team for the 2010 world championships.

Ferrari will be absent from the Formula 1 grid next season after opposing new technical regulations.

The decision is the result of a dispute with the sport's governing body, the FIA, over proposed regulations aimed at enforcing cost caps upon teams on the Grand Prix circuit.

"Ferrari confirms its opposition to the new technical regulations adopted by the FIA and does not intend entering its cars in the 2010 F1 Championship," the team said in a Web site statement.

According to reports the FIA president Max Mosley is attempting to push through changes that would force all teams to operate within an annual budget cap of $40 million -- about a third of Ferari's current spend.

The decision not to enter F1 next season came at a meeting of Ferrari directors in Maranello, Italy.

Ferrari's statement added: "The Board of Directors also examined developments related to recent decisions taken by the Federation Internationale de l'Automobile during an extraordinary meeting of the World Motor Sport Council on 29 April 2009.

"Although this meeting was originally called only to examine a disciplinary matter, the decisions taken mean that, for the first time ever in Formula 1, the 2010 season will see the introduction of two different sets of regulations based on arbitrary technical rules and economic parameters.

"The Board considers that if this is the regulatory framework for Formula 1 in the future, then the reasons underlying Ferrari's uninterrupted participation in the World Championship over the last 60 years -- the only constructor to have taken part ever since its inception in 1950 -- would come to a close.

"The Board also expressed its disappointment about the methods adopted by the FIA in taking decisions of such a serious nature and its refusal to effectively reach an understanding with constructors and teams.

"The rules of governance that have contributed to the development of Formula 1 over the last 25 years have been disregarded, as have the binding contractual obligations between Ferrari and the FIA itself regarding the stability of the regulations.

"The same rules for all teams, stability of regulations, the continuity of the FOTA's endeavours to methodically and progressively reduce costs, and governance of Formula 1 are the priorities for the future. If these indispensable principles are not respected and if the regulations adopted for 2010 will not change, then Ferrari does not intend to enter its cars in the next Formula 1 World Championship.

"Ferrari trusts that its many fans worldwide will understand that this difficult decision is coherent with the Scuderia's approach to motor sport and to Formula 1 in particular, always seeking to promote its sporting and technical values. The Chairman of the Board of Directors was mandated to evaluate the most suitable ways and methods to protect the company's interests."
This is getting wild! From an academic standpoint though, I'd be very interested in seeing the impact on revenue that Ferrari has on the sport.
__________________
2005 Lotus Elise (Jet Blue Metallic) - ForcedFed 340
2002 Ford Focus SVT (Pitch Black) - Powered by 4.6L of V8 goodness
sleeprfocus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2009, 09:31 AM   #2 (permalink)
Live to Drive
 
Bavarian Motorist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NYC/Westchester, NY
Posts: 10,852
This doesn't mean anything yet... It's probably just a negotiation technique, though I'm sure Ferrari will stand by it if needed. F1 has more to lose.
__________________
Be an alpha male. Drive a Lotus.
Bavarian Motorist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2009, 09:32 AM   #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Vexige's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 269
Not unexpected. It was long time coming. The rules have been changed and reversed every week lately.
Interesting, how Bernie will react to the news?
Vexige is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2009, 09:35 AM   #4 (permalink)
thread killer
 
jasper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 357
Sour grapes.

they wouldn't throw this out if they didn't just outright suck this year

now if it does happen how about Massa in a Brawn car, I'd say Kimi but he seems too interested in having some cocktails to bother with any more racing
jasper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2009, 09:58 AM   #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
paulhastings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: San Diego native
Posts: 604
It's not just Ferrari but, both Red Bull teams, Toyota and likely McLaren that is best not speak up these day's.
paulhastings is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2009, 10:03 AM   #6 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 455
Not sure if it is a case of bunch babies who cannot compete, hence I quit or what F1 has been all about the past 10 years: The haves and the have nots.

Anyway, it has become a boring circus off the track and barely amusing on the track. F1 is a perfect example of extreme wealth and ego mixed with absolut disregard for the sport or the fans. Both sides in their ivory tower.

I say: Good riddance to all of them and let me watch the local races and SCCA or other smaller venues.
mcoupe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2009, 10:05 AM   #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
bueno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 281
I don't see it as sour grapes as Toyota and Red Bull have already hinted the same. This is VERY bad for F1 racing and I hope they can resolve their differences because I'm sure this will have a profound impact in the sport.
bueno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2009, 10:13 AM   #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
paulhastings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: San Diego native
Posts: 604
Sorry, couldn't disagree more. If anything they have made sure it's not boring off the track. Unfortunately all the penalties make these decisions very irritating. Another topic entirely.

I cannot see how anyone could say the last couple years have not been great competition on the track. The last two championships have been extremely close. Aided by some penalties but, great racing in my opinion.

I wouldn't mind seeing some stability come in with race stewardship and overall running of Formula 1. Perhaps it's time for the break away as was close to happening not so many years back. However, I do think the FIA will listen and compromise as they cannot lose all of these major teams and expect to have the audience with all new teams.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mcoupe View Post
Not sure if it is a case of bunch babies who cannot compete, hence I quit or what F1 has been all about the past 10 years: The haves and the have nots.

Anyway, it has become a boring circus off the track and barely amusing on the track. F1 is a perfect example of extreme wealth and ego mixed with absolut disregard for the sport or the fans. Both sides in their ivory tower.

I say: Good riddance to all of them and let me watch the local races and SCCA or other smaller venues.
paulhastings is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2009, 10:21 AM   #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
dwkoski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 444
If they all pull out...Maybe some guy named Colin could build a competitive car that meets the budget caps in a barn attached to his father's bar??? I dislike Ferrari but what would the sport be without a good villain? And if they chase out Maclaren: and Toyota, Renault, and Red Bull give up, we could have an entire season like the infamous USGP, with fans treated to a contest between Force India and Brawn GP. SpeedTV can then devote entire programs to Bernie the Troll and Max expounding on their latest plans to improve Formula One (and their income streams.)
dwkoski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2009, 10:25 AM   #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
milehitom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 3,145
I'd guess this end one of two ways: Bernie acquiesces to Ferrari's (and other manufacturer's) demands or he doesn't and Ferrari pulls out. One thing's for sure, Ferrari won't back down.

These days, they are plenty of other extremely popular European (and even North American) racing series where factory Ferrari teams can participate and win and promote their products. Hey, if it sends a factory team back to LeMans series, many fans would be very happy.

I'm sure Ferrari's lousy performance so far this season has increased their bitterness at Bernie's whims masquerading as rule changes, but they'd be making these threats even if they were on top. A 40 million pound budget isn't a cap they're interested in operating under.

I wonder how this might affect Ferrari's participation in GP2...

Tom
milehitom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2009, 10:40 AM   #11 (permalink)
Registered Shmoozer
 
mikester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: So Cal
Posts: 4,597
Quote:
Originally Posted by bueno View Post
I don't see it as sour grapes as Toyota and Red Bull have already hinted the same. This is VERY bad for F1 racing and I hope they can resolve their differences because I'm sure this will have a profound impact in the sport.
I agree. I'm sure there will be massive repercussions from this, not at all sure how it will end up but I really hope that the end result is not a split a la CART and IRL.
__________________
Covered in Brandy and Lard
mikester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2009, 10:43 AM   #12 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 455
Competitive?

I call competitive when all teams have a shot at a title. Not just 3. Would you call any sport competitive when only 2-3 teams are always contending for the tiltle?

Extemely close between whom? Ferrari and McLaren mostly. That is not competitive.

This year the big boys are crying because they cannot compete suddenly. Guess what happens, they want to pull out.

I might also just be tired of F1, hence my rant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulhastings View Post
Sorry, couldn't disagree more. If anything they have made sure it's not boring off the track. Unfortunately all the penalties make these decisions very irritating. Another topic entirely.

I cannot see how anyone could say the last couple years have not been great competition on the track. The last two championships have been extremely close. Aided by some penalties but, great racing in my opinion.

I wouldn't mind seeing some stability come in with race stewardship and overall running of Formula 1. Perhaps it's time for the break away as was close to happening not so many years back. However, I do think the FIA will listen and compromise as they cannot lose all of these major teams and expect to have the audience with all new teams.
mcoupe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2009, 11:06 AM   #13 (permalink)
Every Car is a Project
 
sleeprfocus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 817
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcoupe View Post
I call competitive when all teams have a shot at a title. Not just 3. Would you call any sport competitive when only 2-3 teams are always contending for the tiltle?

Extemely close between whom? Ferrari and McLaren mostly. That is not competitive.

This year the big boys are crying because they cannot compete suddenly. Guess what happens, they want to pull out.

I might also just be tired of F1, hence my rant.
It really depends on what the fans want out of the sport. A truly competitive series would essentially be a spec series, where teams manage within strict limits and all drivers are on equal footing in terms of hardware. However there are a lot of fans out there (myself included) that want to see the best technology with the best drivers doing what they do, even if it means only 3-4 teams will have a shot at the title each year. The balance has shifted towards the former because of the economy and teams' ability to raise sponsorship funding, although I do think that a 40M GBP budget cap is pretty paltry. An NFL team gets to spend more money than that on their roster payroll alone.
__________________
2005 Lotus Elise (Jet Blue Metallic) - ForcedFed 340
2002 Ford Focus SVT (Pitch Black) - Powered by 4.6L of V8 goodness
sleeprfocus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2009, 11:19 AM   #14 (permalink)
2007 Exige S
 
robains's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: CA, Bay Area
Posts: 1,820
Sorry to see them go and for no real good reason. What exactly was their contention? Rules change all the time in racing and have done so since day 1 of Formula One -- this isn't new.

The Official Formula 1 Website

But like I've said before -- if the budget caps bring in 4 new teams (2 of which will be American) then I'm all for it.

Sure sounds to me more like Ferrari can't win so they're pulling out. Really bad move, but I guess they seem to be driven by emotion and ego rather than the reality of the economy and good of racing. Wonder how this will affect their street car sales?

It cost Toyota 8 BILLION dollars just to get two cars on the front row (and they still didn't win) -- given that Toyota have reported loses higher than GM, does this really make sense? There is a point where the spending of money becomes careless, not fruitful, and just a plain stupid wasteful. F1 has reached that point (long ago).

Technical innovation doesn't stop because budgets are capped to only $70m (which doesn't include driver salaries) -- look at BrawnGP -- their budget is a fraction of what Ferrari and McLaren and Toyota spend and they're leading the championship by a good margin. F1 isn't and shouldn't be about how much money you can spend to win.

Very suspect that Ferrari announced this post Spain GP realizing they still don't have a reliable set of cars and they still can't get on the podium and the team management still leaves MUCH to be desired. Yes it does smell much more like Italian ego/pride rather than common sense.

Rob.
__________________
'07 Exige S (Track Pack & LSD) + EFi 550ci injectors + Mahle 9:1 + DRS Port + SuperTech Valves + Weapon R Header + 2.9" pully + TODA Clutch + FF Engine Damper + RLS IC + Greddy catch cans + opened roof slot + RTD brace + Milled steering arms + Larini 8" + FF air intake + Moroso oil pan + Ultradisc 2 piece front/rear + Reverie 1650mm wing + ReVerie front splitter + IQ3 Dash + 4pt ASM + Pioneer AVIC-N2 nav + rear camera + RAC monolites 888s 195/225 + Lotus LSS Hoosier R6 205/225 @ 1921 lbs
robains is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2009, 11:22 AM   #15 (permalink)
No more cone damage!
 
Surferjer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Exton, PA
Posts: 8,885
If it were just Ferrari, I'd say F them. If the rest feel that way too, then F1 should change the rule.
__________________
Jer-2005 Elise (retired from autox)
1993 MR2 autox car
2002 Ford Excursion DIESEL 4 X 4
1993 Miata (throwout bearing or clutch failure)
1987 Toyota Corolla FX16 Lemons car (needs new head)
1984 Chevy Citation Lemons car (needs a motor)
Surferjer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2009, 11:25 AM   #16 (permalink)
Nothing witty to say
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 1,443


Finally someone is telling the FIA to shove it where the sun don't shine!

Enough of the BS.

I hope they start their own series without budget caps, arbitrary rule changes, idiotic steward decisions after the race, and most importantly, without Moseley and Ecclestone YEAH!!!

The spectators and audiences will follow Ferrari, whatever series they decide to enter.
cstetter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2009, 01:05 PM   #17 (permalink)
Registered User
 
paulhastings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: San Diego native
Posts: 604
Agreed. Formula 1 is first a constructors championship. A great part of the sport is all the innovation. This year for example, the lap times are comparable or quicker then last year and the development is just getting started. I really don't think there is crying because the major players are struggling. This has happened before and there will be some changes THIS season as development takes place. At the moment Brawn is on top of the world and that is great for them and interesting for the sport as the others play catch up. Now it's up to them to keep the advantage and to see if they can develop their chassis on the same pace as the others. I believe the FIA has caused some damage. Some of the stuff they pull is so ridiculous I wonder if it's on purpose to keep the drama and the fans intrigued. Like it or not there is alway's news and that keeps people plugged in. I must admit I have pulled against Ferrari the last few years but, as an enthusiast and F1 fan I really like Ferrari. So many are pulling for them and they won so often in the Schumacher years it was fun to see someone take the race to them. I am excited to see them work through this struggle. Same with McLaren, Renault and Williams. They have all had their years of dominance. If F1 ever became a spec series it would lose my interest and I suspect others dramatically. Watch most any other series and you will find this. How cool is it to see how some teams interpret rules and come up with different solutions within the same rules and others that don't seem to use what has been determined as the "unfair" advantage (Red Bull) and still be competative. They probably have the overall best chassis at the moment.

Ramling now...


Quote:
Originally Posted by sleeprfocus View Post
It really depends on what the fans want out of the sport. A truly competitive series would essentially be a spec series, where teams manage within strict limits and all drivers are on equal footing in terms of hardware. However there are a lot of fans out there (myself included) that want to see the best technology with the best drivers doing what they do, even if it means only 3-4 teams will have a shot at the title each year. The balance has shifted towards the former because of the economy and teams' ability to raise sponsorship funding, although I do think that a 40M GBP budget cap is pretty paltry. An NFL team gets to spend more money than that on their roster payroll alone.
paulhastings is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2009, 01:39 PM   #18 (permalink)
2007 Exige S
 
robains's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: CA, Bay Area
Posts: 1,820
Ferrari is the only manufacturer that has officially announed they will leave F1 come 2010 with the current rules. Rules are rules, everyone has to play by them. It's unfortunate Ferrari can't get over this and they've still not provided any real meaningful reason why they can't work within these rules.

Ferrari have pretty much had the FIA in their back pocket for a long time -- most obvious last year while helping Massa catch up with Hamilton. It's going to be a new ERA of Formula One, and I for one welcome the change because it was starting to get very old musty. I hope the FIA stand their ground for the sake of the sport.

Ferrari do NOT have the largest fan base and I'm sure Bernie and Max reviewed the fan following carefully. When Schumacher, Brawn, and JT left, the fan base declined. Still a lot of Ferrari fans, but it ain't the sea of red like is used to be.

As stated, the $70M does NOT include driver salaries (so I'm not sure how you can relate to NFL player caps to this, apples to oranges comparison).

Rob
__________________
'07 Exige S (Track Pack & LSD) + EFi 550ci injectors + Mahle 9:1 + DRS Port + SuperTech Valves + Weapon R Header + 2.9" pully + TODA Clutch + FF Engine Damper + RLS IC + Greddy catch cans + opened roof slot + RTD brace + Milled steering arms + Larini 8" + FF air intake + Moroso oil pan + Ultradisc 2 piece front/rear + Reverie 1650mm wing + ReVerie front splitter + IQ3 Dash + 4pt ASM + Pioneer AVIC-N2 nav + rear camera + RAC monolites 888s 195/225 + Lotus LSS Hoosier R6 205/225 @ 1921 lbs
robains is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2009, 01:46 PM   #19 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: san mateo, ca
Posts: 233
Quote:
Originally Posted by milehitom View Post
I'm sure Ferrari's lousy performance so far this season has increased their bitterness at Bernie's whims masquerading as rule changes, but they'd be making these threats even if they were on top. A 40 million pound budget isn't a cap they're interested in operating under.
And under the new rule, they wouldn't have to. That's not their objection.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paulhastings View Post
Agreed. Formula 1 is first a constructors championship. A great part of the sport is all the innovation. This year for example, the lap times are comparable or quicker then last year and the development is just getting started.
Yes, the constructor aspect is critical, and the innovation is fantastic. But the lap times this year are not due to innovation per se, it's due to going back to slick tires.
road racer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2009, 02:06 PM   #20 (permalink)
Registered User
 
paulhastings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: San Diego native
Posts: 604
Red Bull ownership has said both of their teams would be pulled as has Toyota. Maybe just not an official press release like Ferrari but, they have made these statements. I would say it's just the same.

For sure the slick tires help but, it's still pretty amazing what they have done otherwise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robains View Post
Ferrari is the only manufacturer that has officially announed they will leave F1 come 2010 with the current rules. Rules are rules, everyone has to play by them. It's unfortunate Ferrari can't get over this and they've still not provided any real meaningful reason why they can't work within these rules.

Ferrari have pretty much had the FIA in their back pocket for a long time -- most obvious last year while helping Massa catch up with Hamilton. It's going to be a new ERA of Formula One, and I for one welcome the change because it was starting to get very old musty. I hope the FIA stand their ground for the sake of the sport.

Ferrari do NOT have the largest fan base and I'm sure Bernie and Max reviewed the fan following carefully. When Schumacher, Brawn, and JT left, the fan base declined. Still a lot of Ferrari fans, but it ain't the sea of red like is used to be.

As stated, the $70M does NOT include driver salaries (so I'm not sure how you can relate to NFL player caps to this, apples to oranges comparison).

Rob
paulhastings is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

  LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community > Motorsports > The Racing Den



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:38 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.1.0