Ferrari had the "Power of Veto" to the F1 regulations?? - LotusTalk

robains · 05-22-2009, 02:19 PM

So after watching SpeedTV's coverage of F1 Monaco practice, I'd like someone to clarify what these "agreements" Ferrari have/had with the FIA these past 5 years?

1. Power to Veto regulations proposed for a new season
2. Ferrari get a 50m Euro yearly pay out from FIA
3. The only team allowed to be represented on the board

As I understand it, in order to keep Ferrari from doing a break away series about 5 years ago, the FIA made a special agreement with Ferrari? Apparently many of the existing teams didn't know about this agreement?

Perhaps it is time to see F1 come to a close. I don't see how any sponsor and/or team would want to remain in a series that has engaged in secret special agreements with another team in the series. How could any team have "faith" in the sport and it's regulatory system? Would anyone want to sign up for a series knowing there are special agreements with one the teams you're going to compete against?

This IS going to be a BIG can of worms, and I think what Max has done is said to Ferrari, "ok, you want to open the lid, lets open the lid and see what's really inside".

Wow, I'm in shock.

Rob.

Demonized · 05-22-2009, 02:31 PM

Shocking, but I'm not surprised.

mini63 · 05-22-2009, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robains

So after watching SpeedTV's coverage of F1 Monaco practice, I'd like someone to clarify what these "agreements" Ferrari have/had with the FIA these past 5 years?

1. Power to Veto regulations proposed for a new season
2. Ferrari get a 50m Euro yearly pay out from FIA
3. The only team allowed to be represented on the board

As I understand it, in order to keep Ferrari from doing a break away series about 5 years ago, the FIA made a special agreement with Ferrari? Apparently many of the existing teams didn't know about this agreement?

Perhaps it is time to see F1 come to a close. I don't see how any sponsor and/or team would want to remain in a series that has engaged in secret special agreements with another team in the series. How could any team have "faith" in the sport and it's regulatory system? Would anyone want to sign up for a series knowing there are special agreements with one the teams you're going to compete against?

This IS going to be a BIG can of worms, and I think what Max has done is said to Ferrari, "ok, you want to open the lid, lets open the lid and see what's really inside".

Wow, I'm in shock.

Rob.

I couldn't agree more. I was shocked when I heard that as well. I'm glad that I didn't fast forward through that part...and to know that I wasn't the only one to hear it (I almost didn't believe it/thought that I heard wrong). I am totally disillusioned. I've never been a fan of Ferrari but this is just ridiculous. How much credibility can F1 have now if they were in bed with one of the competing teams???

robains · 05-22-2009, 02:40 PM

I'm wondering if there is any legal action that can be filed against the FIA by other teams that competed over the past 5 years? Are McLaren lawyers are gonna be ALL over this considering their 100m Euro payout.

And with Ross Brawn admitting Ferrari competed with an Illegal car while he was with Ferrari is adding more fuel to this fire.

I'm surprised, and I'm doubting the viability of F1 next year.

Rob

plastique999 · 05-22-2009, 02:42 PM

I heard this as well....Ferrari is sleeping with FIA and FOTA

robains · 05-22-2009, 02:54 PM

It makes McLaren's "stolen but not used" Ferrari information seem positively minor compared to this little gem of information. This is nuts, I mean were talking serious sponsorship Euros over the past 5 years combining all the teams -- oh man, this IS gonna get real ugly.

Can you see Toyota's lawyers handing a lawsuit to the FIA saying, BTW, you owe us 5 Billion US dollars for competing in a series where we were not afforded an equal status/opportunity in the series per Concorde Agreement.

TorsinADoc · 05-22-2009, 04:31 PM

All those times that people said Ferrari were getting special treatment from the FIA were at least partially correct. Also it really makes me wonder about the McLaren fine or the Renault mass damper decision from 06.

doug_porsche · 05-22-2009, 04:36 PM

I dont get it. The Red team gets $50Mil from FIA.
The FIA says in 2010 you can only spend $40M
That means the Red team makes $10M a year profit!
And my dad said you cant make money in racing.

BRTHTAKR · 05-22-2009, 06:37 PM

I thought Ferrari's special status was common knowledge. Made it more fun to pull against them. The diffuser ruling this month was the first ruling against Ferrari in something like 25 years.
This whole mess leaves us, the loyal fans, to feel like

TTP · 05-22-2009, 06:48 PM

Common knowledge. More than anything I think it's Mosley's strategy to divide and conquer FOTA to get what he wants.

fitfan · 05-22-2009, 07:26 PM

al lthe teams negotiate their agrements - some don't modify, some (i guess do) but all the teams gets paid by the fia anyways (i thought?), that part of the newer agreements of late - how much i don't know. that 50m amount may be there agreeded portion of the tv rights? or is it something sepperate?

road racer · 05-22-2009, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robains

As I understand it, in order to keep Ferrari from doing a break away series about 5 years ago, the FIA made a special agreement with Ferrari? Apparently many of the existing teams didn't know about this agreement?

Every team has their own unique contract, secret from the other teams.

Spudboy · 05-23-2009, 01:03 AM

It's been widely known for years that Ferrari had a special financial arrangement, it might even have been in the Concord Agreement. The real news here is the veto powers. That hasn't been out in the open until now.

Face it, what's needed is a real house cleaning at the top of the FIA and FOM. Even better, do away with FOM altogether. That alone would free up much needed cash to help offset the teams' costs.

jasper · 05-23-2009, 06:43 AM

You only know about the last 5 years, what about before that?

I think this taints Schumachers legacy, sort of like steroids in baseball.

dbisbee · 05-23-2009, 07:55 AM

and poor rubens he can't catch a break. "As the corner turns"...new on speed this fall!

Hey it's my first time using the popcorn icon!

Aedo · 05-23-2009, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by road racer

Every team has their own unique contract, secret from the other teams.

that's what I always thought too - and I though it was common knowledge

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasper

...
I think this taints Schumachers legacy, sort of like steroids in baseball.

I disagree - Ferrari had an agreement that enabled them to veto rules they didn't like (but they didn't get to set the rules). Once the rules were in play everyone is on a level playing field (budget is another issue!) and as such Shumachers results are that he and Ferrari were better than the rest (an no - I'm not a Ferrari fan).

fitfan · 05-23-2009, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasper

You only know about the last 5 years, what about before that?

I think this taints Schumachers legacy, sort of like steroids in baseball.

opposite! it re-enforces schumachers legacy that he was instrumental in building a team to the capability to negotiate such contracts!! ...just shows you how "great" schumacher was - different animal than other "drivers"

check into the modern history a bit, ferrari ruined the careers of the worlds greatest drivers... until schumacher! he said "we will create a new era of ferrari dominance" and everyone laughed at him "yeah right - ferrari sucks everyone has said and tried this before..." thats why i am a ferrari fan, nobody seems to remember when they were the underdog - zero technical capability, all passion, and disasterous results to prove it! hahaha brits ate them alive for breakfast, lunch and diner!

fitfan · 05-23-2009, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by road racer

Every team has their own unique contract, secret from the other teams.

correct - they all negotiate their contracts.

if there is any shame, its that the FIA allows them to, not that some teams are better at it than others.

Spudboy · 05-23-2009, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fitfan

check into the modern history a bit, ferrari ruined the careers of the worlds greatest drivers... until schumacher! he said "we will create a new era of ferrari dominance" and everyone laughed at him "yeah right - ferrari sucks everyone has said and tried this before..." thats why i am a ferrari fan, nobody seems to remember when they were the underdog - zero technical capability, all passion, and disasterous results to prove it! hahaha brits ate them alive for breakfast, lunch and diner!

Without Ross Brawn, MS's impact would never have been so great. It was the fact that a BIG group of ex Benneton guys went with him to Ferrari that enabled the "magic" transformation. IMHO Michael gets too much of the credit. Yes, he was an amazing driver, but even he couldn't win 7 championships driving a turd.

fitfan · 05-23-2009, 03:33 PM

^^ well thats what i ment. more than just a driver ...

05-22-2009, 02:19 PM	#1 (permalink)
robains 2007 Exige S Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: CA, Bay Area Posts: 1,820	Ferrari had the "Power of Veto" to the F1 regulations?? So after watching SpeedTV's coverage of F1 Monaco practice, I'd like someone to clarify what these "agreements" Ferrari have/had with the FIA these past 5 years? 1. Power to Veto regulations proposed for a new season 2. Ferrari get a 50m Euro yearly pay out from FIA 3. The only team allowed to be represented on the board As I understand it, in order to keep Ferrari from doing a break away series about 5 years ago, the FIA made a special agreement with Ferrari? Apparently many of the existing teams didn't know about this agreement? Perhaps it is time to see F1 come to a close. I don't see how any sponsor and/or team would want to remain in a series that has engaged in secret special agreements with another team in the series. How could any team have "faith" in the sport and it's regulatory system? Would anyone want to sign up for a series knowing there are special agreements with one the teams you're going to compete against? This IS going to be a BIG can of worms, and I think what Max has done is said to Ferrari, "ok, you want to open the lid, lets open the lid and see what's really inside". Wow, I'm in shock. Rob. __________________ '07 Exige S (Track Pack & LSD) + EFi 550ci injectors + Mahle 9:1 + DRS Port + SuperTech Valves + Weapon R Header + 2.9" pully + TODA Clutch + FF Engine Damper + RLS IC + Greddy catch cans + opened roof slot + RTD brace + Milled steering arms + Larini 8" + FF air intake + Moroso oil pan + Ultradisc 2 piece front/rear + Reverie 1650mm wing + ReVerie front splitter + IQ3 Dash + 4pt ASM + Pioneer AVIC-N2 nav + rear camera + RAC monolites 888s 195/225 + Lotus LSS Hoosier R6 205/225 @ 1921 lbs

05-22-2009, 02:31 PM	#2 (permalink)
Demonized NOT ßANNED! Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,546	Shocking, but I'm not surprised. __________________ 2005 Saffron Yellow Elise, Katana Supercharger, LSS Wheels, 2Bular exhaust & cat, rear panel delete, Cup Airbox, Volt / Oil temp gauge, Ohlins double adjustable coilovers, Dual Oil Coolers, S111 RTD Brace, Moroso Oil Pan, MicroMirror, S111 "V-Force" Harness bar, Manly Engine Mounts, Odyssey PC680 & RLS Bracket, Saikou Michi OCC, CF Scoops, CF Bootlid, CF Front Lip.

05-22-2009, 02:40 PM	#4 (permalink)
robains 2007 Exige S Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: CA, Bay Area Posts: 1,820	I'm wondering if there is any legal action that can be filed against the FIA by other teams that competed over the past 5 years? Are McLaren lawyers are gonna be ALL over this considering their 100m Euro payout. And with Ross Brawn admitting Ferrari competed with an Illegal car while he was with Ferrari is adding more fuel to this fire. I'm surprised, and I'm doubting the viability of F1 next year. Rob __________________ '07 Exige S (Track Pack & LSD) + EFi 550ci injectors + Mahle 9:1 + DRS Port + SuperTech Valves + Weapon R Header + 2.9" pully + TODA Clutch + FF Engine Damper + RLS IC + Greddy catch cans + opened roof slot + RTD brace + Milled steering arms + Larini 8" + FF air intake + Moroso oil pan + Ultradisc 2 piece front/rear + Reverie 1650mm wing + ReVerie front splitter + IQ3 Dash + 4pt ASM + Pioneer AVIC-N2 nav + rear camera + RAC monolites 888s 195/225 + Lotus LSS Hoosier R6 205/225 @ 1921 lbs

05-22-2009, 02:42 PM	#5 (permalink)
plastique999 Form and Function Join Date: May 2008 Location: Alta Loma, CA Posts: 3,046	I heard this as well....Ferrari is sleeping with FIA and FOTA __________________ www.FaceNBody.com 2005 Lotus Elise: 2bular decat\GT3 exhaust,HID's,turn signal&rear fins delete, CFside scoops, CFbinnacle,CFcenter console,Zoom CF mirror,APR Aero kit,CF 5-elem. diffuser,Exige mesh,Ohlins DA,RTD brace,RAC 'lites,Toyo R888's,HawkHT10's,CO painted calipers,SS lines,Reverie XC CF seat,Reverie CF steering wheel,Schroth Profi II 6 pt harness,shifter re-Enforcer,Manly mounts, Accusump,Moroso pan,BWR key to BWR S/C! Spec Racer Ford #237

05-22-2009, 02:54 PM	#6 (permalink)
robains 2007 Exige S Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: CA, Bay Area Posts: 1,820	It makes McLaren's "stolen but not used" Ferrari information seem positively minor compared to this little gem of information. This is nuts, I mean were talking serious sponsorship Euros over the past 5 years combining all the teams -- oh man, this IS gonna get real ugly. Can you see Toyota's lawyers handing a lawsuit to the FIA saying, BTW, you owe us 5 Billion US dollars for competing in a series where we were not afforded an equal status/opportunity in the series per Concorde Agreement. __________________ '07 Exige S (Track Pack & LSD) + EFi 550ci injectors + Mahle 9:1 + DRS Port + SuperTech Valves + Weapon R Header + 2.9" pully + TODA Clutch + FF Engine Damper + RLS IC + Greddy catch cans + opened roof slot + RTD brace + Milled steering arms + Larini 8" + FF air intake + Moroso oil pan + Ultradisc 2 piece front/rear + Reverie 1650mm wing + ReVerie front splitter + IQ3 Dash + 4pt ASM + Pioneer AVIC-N2 nav + rear camera + RAC monolites 888s 195/225 + Lotus LSS Hoosier R6 205/225 @ 1921 lbs

05-22-2009, 04:31 PM	#7 (permalink)
TorsinADoc Registered User Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Fayetteville, AR Posts: 508	All those times that people said Ferrari were getting special treatment from the FIA were at least partially correct. Also it really makes me wonder about the McLaren fine or the Renault mass damper decision from 06. __________________ http://foas.us/images/sigs/mclaren.jpg

05-22-2009, 04:36 PM	#8 (permalink)
doug_porsche Registered User Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 381	I dont get it. The Red team gets $50Mil from FIA. The FIA says in 2010 you can only spend $40M That means the Red team makes $10M a year profit! And my dad said you cant make money in racing. __________________ "They swap ends at remarkable speed" - David Hobbs Japanese Grand Prix Practice 2009

05-22-2009, 06:37 PM	#9 (permalink)
BRTHTAKR AKA XHILR8N! Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Asheville, North Carolina Posts: 1,151 Images: 6	I thought Ferrari's special status was common knowledge. Made it more fun to pull against them. The diffuser ruling this month was the first ruling against Ferrari in something like 25 years. This whole mess leaves us, the loyal fans, to feel like __________________ Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. Leonardo Da Vinci 2005 Elise LRG, Trim Shop interior, full cage, Cup wheels, other stuff. 2007 Toyota Tundra (about 10 cup holders) 2004 BMW X3 (4 small cup holders) 1980 Rover SD1

05-22-2009, 06:48 PM	#10 (permalink)
TTP Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Austin Posts: 1,428 Images: 28	Common knowledge. More than anything I think it's Mosley's strategy to divide and conquer FOTA to get what he wants.

05-22-2009, 07:26 PM	#11 (permalink)
fitfan Regurgitated User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: San Diego! Posts: 4,092	al lthe teams negotiate their agrements - some don't modify, some (i guess do) but all the teams gets paid by the fia anyways (i thought?), that part of the newer agreements of late - how much i don't know. that 50m amount may be there agreeded portion of the tv rights? or is it something sepperate? __________________ Driving it around!

05-23-2009, 01:03 AM	#13 (permalink)
Spudboy Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 1,496	It's been widely known for years that Ferrari had a special financial arrangement, it might even have been in the Concord Agreement. The real news here is the veto powers. That hasn't been out in the open until now. Face it, what's needed is a real house cleaning at the top of the FIA and FOM. Even better, do away with FOM altogether. That alone would free up much needed cash to help offset the teams' costs. __________________ '05 Elise, Nightfall/Touring (1TON 1G) '94 BMW 325iS '67 Austin Healey 3000

05-23-2009, 06:43 AM	#14 (permalink)
jasper thread killer Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 357	You only know about the last 5 years, what about before that? I think this taints Schumachers legacy, sort of like steroids in baseball.

05-23-2009, 07:55 AM	#15 (permalink)
dbisbee Service animal Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 476	and poor rubens he can't catch a break. "As the corner turns"...new on speed this fall! Hey it's my first time using the popcorn icon! __________________ The word "PASSION" should aways be uppercase. #349 '05 AS Elise Touring, Hardtop, Starshield, Plinth delete, GPS Garmin 680, V1, V1 mirror, Leather console, Multivex, Alpine CDA9887, JL stealthbox, Focals, Alpine PDX 5, HID, RAC Monolites, R888's, Stage II, Front Slotted rotors, R4-S pads, Stebel nautilus, TitanQR and Odyssey 925 now with bracket.

05-23-2009, 03:33 PM	#20 (permalink)
fitfan Regurgitated User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: San Diego! Posts: 4,092	^^ well thats what i ment. more than just a driver ... __________________ Driving it around!

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