State of Formula 1

[cy9]

Would you like to see the FOTA teams will start a new series? I would welcome it as long as Speed got the contract to broadcast.

[MattG]

Look what happened when CART broke up into Champ Car and IRL...neither did well, they both languished until they finally re-merged. I expect the same would happen to F1. Chances are, any new series is not going to get many of the existing tracks, so you'll have one series with the big names and lackluster tracks, and another series with the classic tracks but lame cars. Neither will work well, until they can kill off the other series somehow.

[macdady2424]

I don't know, but for the past couple of years they have been F'ing it up. Granted, there are now new teams winning, more passing attempts/action, and who know, budget caps could cause engineers to think more and become more innovative, but I think Bernie and others are messing up what was the point of the series. Freedom for the teams to design anything they want. The ultimate car.

[Green Ghost]

kill the FIA

CART was doing great till a few bad management decisions over engine formats. I forget who it was that did that but what a f*&#er that guy was. CART was going to bury the IRL up to that point.

I think the FOTA could do much better on it’s own. The FIA needs them more then the TOFA needs the FIA.

[Spudboy]

Just shoot Bernie and Max and 90% of the problems will go away.

[Green Ghost]

The more I think about it the more I hope the FOTA go on their own. The FIA will be so weakened by this move. Maybe if this works the ACO (Le Mans) will be able to get rid of the FIA too and sports car racing will have a stable come back. Then the FIA will be history.

Please new Lotus team, don’t help the corrupt Bernie Max show. Don’t give legitimacy to the FIA.

[cy9]

Originally Posted by MattG

Chances are, any new series is not going to get many of the existing tracks, so you'll have one series with the big names and lackluster tracks, and another series with the classic tracks but lame cars. Neither will work well, until they can kill off the other series somehow.

That's an interesting point however perhaps some of the older tracks would get better deals under a new regime. What happened to Argentina, Jerez, Estoril, Kyalami and Imola? Since I've been watching F1, at least a quarter of the tracks have lost races. Plus, as one who never approved of the ridiculous Indy track, I hope to see a top race in America with elevation changes like Watkins Glen.

[knucklehead]

Originally Posted by cy9

That's an interesting point however perhaps some of the older tracks would get better deals under a new regime. What happened to Argentina, Jerez, Estoril, Kyalami and Imola? Since I've been watching F1, at least a quarter of the tracks have lost races. Plus, as one who never approved of the ridiculous Indy track, I hope to see a top race in America with elevation changes like Watkins Glen.

I was just thinking this same thing. Could the Rebel teams be the catalyst to bring Rebel F1 to North America?

[mikester]

Originally Posted by Green Ghost

kill the FIA

CART was doing great till a few bad management decisions over engine formats. I forget who it was that did that but what a f*&#er that guy was. CART was going to bury the IRL up to that point.

I think the FOTA could do much better on it’s own. The FIA needs them more then the TOFA needs the FIA.

In fact, CART was in dire financial condition for quite awhile. The principals of CART were losing money hand over fist and no end in sight. There were constant predictions in mag's like Autoweek of it's imminent demise. The franchise had been handed around like an unwanted baby a few times, and each time the financing seemed to be getting sketchier. Personally, I'd seen attendance dropping noticeably at Long Beach, one of the more successful venue.

IRL was doing better, but I'm sure that was 90 % because they (Tony George and family) owned the Indy Motor Speedway and hence the Indy 500.

No, I don't think a split would be good at all for F1.

[mikester]

Originally Posted by cy9

That's an interesting point however perhaps some of the older tracks would get better deals under a new regime. What happened to Argentina, Jerez, Estoril, Kyalami and Imola? Since I've been watching F1, at least a quarter of the tracks have lost races. Plus, as one who never approved of the ridiculous Indy track, I hope to see a top race in America with elevation changes like Watkins Glen.

Yes, it would be very cool to have some of the heritage tracks back in F1, if they can be brought up to safety standards.

[fitfan]

Originally Posted by Spudboy

Just shoot Bernie and Max and 90% of the problems will go away.

+1, i even got a box of .45 black talons i will pitch in!

[BRTHTAKR]

Bernie is focused on $$. How much do you need anyway? Want your own space program?
These new tracks through city streets are about as boring as racing could get. Homologation, constant radical rule revisions have sapped the sport and increased costs. I'm definitely hoping for a split.

[erics75218]

Originally Posted by macdady2424

I don't know, but for the past couple of years they have been F'ing it up. Granted, there are now new teams winning, more passing attempts/action, and who know, budget caps could cause engineers to think more and become more innovative, but I think Bernie and others are messing up what was the point of the series. Freedom for the teams to design anything they want. The ultimate car.

I think you just nailed it.....TECHNOLOGY. A budget cap is good, it's been good in every sport....it's just straight up a GREAT idea. Teams may not HATE it so much, if in return for budget restrictions...some engineering restrictions were lifted.

They then would bitch that to utilize those new freedoms would require more money...

F1 is a bunch of TiT-Babies.

We've all seen and followed enough race series to know that over time....a great set of rules and regulations....held fast over a long period of time makes everything better and cheaper. Over the past few decades...we've seen MASSIVE rule changes.....re-desinging cars for stupid things like KERS....or re-designing cars for NON Turbo engines.....costs a SH*T load of money.

C.A.R.T was an awesome series...I LOVED it most when it has the best American drivers racing with F1 has beens. I even considered C.A.R.T a poor mans F1. What with the Lolas..the Penskes...one more chassis I can't remember...and multiple engines. That was their hey-day.

I think F1 needs to SCRAP KERS (already done as I understand it)....and LEAVE THE RULES ALONE...and put on a budget cap.

And if they want more passing.......I have an idea....get SERIOUS about working with airflow after the car...it's not an unknown to put the air "back together" after your car has gone through it. I love F1...RIGHT NOW....add in a few upstarts....take out the BS...LEAVE IT ALONE..and lets sit back and enjoy!

[fitfan]

i would prefer to see no budget restriction - but a formula based on efficency to trickle down to consumers.

no refueling. lower the min wieght, very open engine formula (no refueling), unlimted kers.... less aero - more mechanical.

kers is stupid now because it too regulated. if they took of the restrictions - everyone would be running kers...

[mikeyd]

Is it possible for F1 to continue without the FIA? Absolutely.

Is it possible for F1 to continue without Bernie? Absolutely.

Is it possible for F1 to continue without the teams (FOTA)? - Absolutely not!
I mean what are you going to race if you don't have any cars?

As that is the case then surely the teams hold all the aces, and have all the power?

FIA have been taking more power and more money from the sport and have a declared goal of eventually controlling the F1 purse.
The FIA have divided the teams and destroyed anybody who threatened to rally the FOTA teams (Ron Dennis).

F1 Budget controls are the next huge power grab by the FIA. It is naked agression and greed by the FIA to finally dominate the sport - that it did nothing to create and adds absolutely nothing to, and their prize will be most of Bernie's billion dollars a year pay check.

Why do the greediest and the most ruthless always rise to the top and why don't the FOTA teams just crush the FIA's involvement right now?

That is what I just don't get...

[Green Hornet]

It’s not the implementation of a budget cap that is a problem. It’s the fact the cap is so far below what the top teams are now spending – they would have to totally gut their programs and start over. If they are going to do that they may as well do it in a new “stable” environment.

Consider this; Major bicycle racing teams in Europe are working with budgets about 50% of what is proposed for Formula 1.

Sadly, I think this whole thing is a cruel joke. I believe the FIA wants to be rid of the FOTA teams as they are a threat to the ultimate power wielded by Max and Bernie.

This is so very sad.

[erics75218]

INteresting..that's data i don't have. What is the average F1 budget now..and what do they want to limit it to?

I think you can place a "soft" cap...by stabilizing the rules personally...it will cap itself over time

[Spudboy]

Originally Posted by erics75218

INteresting..that's data i don't have. What is the average F1 budget now..and what do they want to limit it to?

I think you can place a "soft" cap...by stabilizing the rules personally...it will cap itself over time

Budgets today are over $300 million/yr. Toyota was rumored to be close to $500 million in years past. FIA wants to cap it to 45 million Euros.

[cornbeef]

This whole F1 thing has been coming ever since the manufacturers came into f1 in a big way and I feel that any breakaway series will go the same way in time. Just look at DTM, BTCC or other similar series and even to a point rallying in the 90s. The car companies came in in a big way, spent a fortune but not everyone can win, so the car companies got tired (or the bosses got pissed off) spending a fortune and dropped out, leaving nothing in their wake. Right now, not a day goes by that theres a rumor that Toyota and Renault are struggling to justify their f1 spending as their day-to-day business is tanking; sure they're standing by their boys, but how long before the bosses pull the plug, then what, the FOTA championship with 5 teams..... And I have a pretty good hunch that McLaren wants out anyway to concentrate building road cars. I think these guys are looking for a way out without being embarrassed, like Honda.

Now don't get me wrong, F1 is and should remain the pinnacle of motorsport but it would certainly be better if that innovation came from clever thinking than spending the GNP of a small country to gain a tenth... The biggest issue that the new F1 will have is the engine issue as it will be a spec series as the car companies won't be involved (then again since all the current engines are 'frozen' doesn't that make them spec anyway). It will work if each team, like always, has to build their own chassis and that will ensure it won't turn into a cart, irl or gp2 spec series.

How to fix F1: It's actually simple:
Keep the budget cap, but set it to say $75-$100m.
Each team has to build their own cars
The car companies are only to supply engines (unless they are a boutique manufacturer like Ferrari, McLaren, Aston (or even if Lotus cars were to return etc) and have nothing to do with the chassis or the teams just like the old days.
With the budget cap loosen the rules but keep the aero simple for overtaking.
Innovations can only get banned at the end of a season.
Go back to manual gearboxes and clutches, no tc or abs to seperate the men from the boys)
Add as many tire companies as want to enter

And for the FOTA teams, they can dissolve their racing team to reduce their budgets into one of the new chassis team (just like the rumors that Flavio is buying Renault or Brawn bought Honda).

Now give me Bernie and Max's numbers and I'll sort it all out. At least if it goes the way it's going right now, in a few months the commercial rights should be pretty inexpensive to pick up