Road Hazard last night in Annapolis!

[CleanSC]

Originally Posted by foosh

While I understand what you are trying to say, what the OP hit was not exactly "any little thing." And, there is no such thing as "non-structural tub damage" since it is an integral part of the structure. It was a high-speed collision with a large, dense object.

It is a risk that we must accept for driving cars with very little ground clearance on the mean streets. Any other car with a similar ground clearance would also have suffered very severe damage. For example, an aluminum-framed Z06 could also have been totaled after a collision with a similar object.

Hahahaha well yes the OP hit a rather giant chunk of iron but still... Other guys have hit much less (common chunk of wood) with similar damage and results. It's just sad to see these cars suffer such a fate... And especially after owning the car for such a short time.

As for "non-structural" damage I guess that's semantics... BUT... We can agree that a small dent or gouge in the underpan is not exactly reason to throw the car away? It's essenially what Lotus wants us to do. That just blows my mind. I work in structural engineering and there are a thousand ways to reinforce damaged materials. You'd think Lotus would find just one to keep an otherwise perfect Elise from the recycling bin?

Just a damn shame is all. I suppose that's why we have insurance.

[brooksfletcher]

Originally Posted by delise

Should be the same %100 of the time in an Elise or Exige as well, I notice /avoid rocks, small bolts and nails, gators all the time on the freeway. I also keep my left and right escape routes as open as I can at all times in case I need to suddenly swerve to avoid something tumbling off the back of a truck or such, this practice has saved me grief countless times in the Elise on the freeway. I am also very in tune with the cars far ahead of me, If I see one dip and bounce I know I have a nasty bump coming up, or if I see them start to brake or swerve I know something is up and can look for a safe way to stop fast or escape lane.

AGREED!
delise, is that quote in your sig a alotus exige quote, think i remember that one LOL

[Valenz]

Originally Posted by serpent

what is that and why the hell was it in the middle of the road??

That would be the latest design in aluminum tub openers and the middle of the road is where it can be most effectively utilized.

Luckily, I made a 500 mile trip today in the Elise without finding one of these, but there were lots of blown re-treads to dodge. Nonetheless, these fragile little machines are fun to drive. You just can't let your guard down - and I just love all those incredibly skilled drivers in the Atlanta rush-hour traffic.

[CleanSC]

Originally Posted by Aedo

Interesting first post. Welcome to LT!


As foosh says the tub is the structure so any damage is by definition structural. However - if the floor panel within the tub is damaged it can be patched (but obviously will not be "as built") although this may not be acceptable to the owner cosmetically. And as for "a small tear" - that was a maassive gash!

In terms of tub repairability it is certainly technically possible - but the tub would have to be removed from the car to do it (since the adhesives require high heat to cure) - and if you are fully dismantling the car for that you may as well buy a new tub than try to repair a damaged one (which is why Lotus do not approve any repairs to the chassis). An replacing the tub isn't the end of the world and is done in other countries where the labour cost isn't prohibitive and the value of the car is higher (basically everywhere other than the US)

So no - to "Any little thing totals these cars."

We love 'em

Thanks for the welcome!

By small tear I was more referring to floor panels which aren't exactly structural (besides diaphragm action). I read the part of the manual where Lotus states smaller scrapes and dents can be properly fixed and they are okay with it. So that eases my mind.

And I very much agree that any suspension mount tweakage is grounds for bye-bye. I just wish they designed the tub to accept proper fixes. If the attachment points were weldable, Lotus could sell us replacement suspension attachment points. Grind out the old and weld in the new and enjoy.

Either way it won't keep me out of an Elise.

[foosh]

Point well taken and accepted. However, as I said in my earlier post, the Elise/Exige is not entirely unique in this regard. If you hit something like that hunk of iron in a low, high-performance car, you're going to be looking at shocking repair costs.

[Colinsmix]

I'm the guy that hit the bumper. Yes, the car was totaled. And, it appears yours will be also. I'm sorry

the good news is that the piece you hit was moving. Make sure your insurance company knows this very important!

For those who aren't sure, a tear in the aluminum underside doesn't always mean a total. Some of that aluminum can be replaced. It's only a total if the tear is in a structural member.

Send me a PM if you have any questions regarding insurance, or how we determined it was a total.

Click on RIP below to see the link to my experience.

[Aedo]

Originally Posted by CleanSC

Thanks for the welcome!

By small tear I was more referring to floor panels which aren't exactly structural (besides diaphragm action). I read the part of the manual where Lotus states smaller scrapes and dents can be properly fixed and they are okay with it. So that eases my mind.

Originally Posted by CleanSC

And I very much agree that any suspension mount tweakage is grounds for bye-bye. I just wish they designed the tub to accept proper fixes. If the attachment points were weldable, Lotus could sell us replacement suspension attachment points. Grind out the old and weld in the new and enjoy.

As I understand it the new Evora has this feature in its chassis design.

It seems to me that the issue of chassis damage writing off cars didn't become an issue until the Fed Elise (didn't seem to come up on SELOC - the UK forum in the 8yrs of Elise prior to its export to the US). I suspect it is due to a couple of issues - firstly (and this is only my opinion - it has no statistical backup!) when cars go off the B-roads in the UK and Europe there are no kerbs to hit and consequently suspension arms may bend but attachment points are less often damaged (similarly you don't hear of chassis damage from track day offs) - and secondly the low cost of cars in the US along with high labour rates means that a chassis swap is not economic. As I say - this is just my theory and I'd be happy to hear others thoughts on it.

Originally Posted by CleanSC

Either way it won't keep me out of an Elise.

Excellent!!

[Randy Chase]

Aedo, I would toss in the hyper concern over the perception that Americans would sue over anything.

[DragonRider1]

Originally Posted by kaiynne

So to the insurance experts out there, what would you need to make sure you had on your insurance policy to make sure that this sort of damage was covered? Is there something in particular that needs to be in your contract that will make sure that a totaled car will be replaced? I just got my Elise and it is a brand new 08 if i hit something i want to make sure that i get a brand new car... Especially since there are potholes as big as my car in boston.

This will fall under the Collision provision of your insurance with it's associated deductible. If you specify "Replacement Value" (not every carrier does this) then that's what you should get, however, it will obviously cost more than 'depreciated value'. Do not expect to get an upgraded car (termed a "betterment") out of the carrier though it can and does happen if you happen to find a really good deal out there.

Also, if totaled, they give you the agreed upon value of the car (almost NEVER a good idea to agree to their first # and have pics and receipts available to show condition and upgrades if you have them!), along with agreed upon value goes the amount of sales taxes (federal and state) as well as any local registration fee's and then the deductible is deducted (hence the name) from that overall total and they cut you a check.

Simply put:

Agreed price
+ Taxes
+ Registration
- Deductible
= Total check to go get new Lotus

Sorry to hear it was gone but as mentioned before, I'm just glad you didn't lose your feet or lose control and plow into something (or someone) else!

[kaiynne]

Originally Posted by DragonRider1

This will fall under the Collision provision of your insurance with it's associated deductible. If you specify "Replacement Value" (not every carrier does this) then that's what you should get, however, it will obviously cost more than 'depreciated value'. Do not expect to get an upgraded car (termed a "betterment") out of the carrier though it can and does happen if you happen to find a really good deal out there.

Also, if totaled, they give you the agreed upon value of the car (almost NEVER a good idea to agree to their first # and have pics and receipts available to show condition and upgrades if you have them!), along with agreed upon value goes the amount of sales taxes (federal and state) as well as any local registration fee's and then the deductible is deducted (hence the name) from that overall total and they cut you a check.

Simply put:

Agreed price
+ Taxes
+ Registration
- Deductible
= Total check to go get new Lotus

Thanks for the reply. What i am worried about in my case is that i paid a lot less for my car than msrp. Its a long story but lets just say it begins with watching two elises get destroyed in front of me. So if my car was totaled would I get the price i paid for the car which could in no way get me a new one or would i get the market value for my car which very well could? And is there some provision i could pay for in my insurance to make sure that i get the market value of the car. Thanks again for the help.

[Rugbyduck]

Originally Posted by cstetter

There is a good chance this car is totalled due to chassis damage.

My God some people are full of gloom and doom!

[DragonRider1]

Originally Posted by kaiynne

Thanks for the reply. What i am worried about in my case is that i paid a lot less for my car than msrp. So if my car was totaled would I get the price i paid for the car which could in no way get me a new one or would i get the market value for my car which very well could?

As long as it's not a salvage car, then they usually take the basics into account (year, mileage, factory options and then some % of aftermarket item value), then they take a range around your area to find what similar cars are going for and average it out. It doesn't normally go by what you paid for the car but for what it would cost you to replace it. There are a few exceptions.

Essentially, if you paid $30k for an '05 with Touring, Hard Top, and Star Shield with 6,000 miles on it they would take that info (minus your purchase price) and look around to find at least 5-10 examples of the car in that value area. If they come back with say, 2 of them for $35k, another 3 for the $37k, and 1 for $42k they would probably go around $37-38k range for it and then add for things like the higher-cost paint (if it applied). The fact that you got a really good deal originally is not going to sway things UNLESS you open your mouth and brag about it.

They would then present to you the specific vehicles, their locations, options, and prices so that you would know where they got their #'s (and have the option to go get one of course).

At this point it would be an agreed replacement price between you and the insurance company and they would sign over a check within a few days much as above.

$38,000 (replacement of car)
$ X,xxx (tax)
$ xxx (Registration fees)
- deductible

There ya go.

I have been on the other end of this a few times with stolen motorcycles and when they thought one of my cars might be totalled. That's pretty much industry standard of how it is done.

[Catbird]

Originally Posted by IsellLotus

I have a beautiful BRG with biscuit SC Elise here now!!

Thanks Dan,
We have never met, but may soon...
BGR is not bright enough for a KG guy...Even if he was a KG guy for 3 weeks..

[Catbird]

Originally Posted by Rugbyduck

My God some people are full of gloom and doom!

If the car is totaled.. do I have to turn in my KG mafia decoder ring?

[kestrel74]

Well, ya could always UPGRADE to Chrome Orange !

[Catbird]

Originally Posted by kestrel74

Well, ya could always UPGRADE to Chrome Orange !

It's on the list.... My girlfriend agrees with you..

[Icedog_16]

Originally Posted by DragonRider1

This will fall under the Collision provision of your insurance with it's associated deductible. If you specify "Replacement Value" (not every carrier does this) then that's what you should get, however, it will obviously cost more than 'depreciated value'. Do not expect to get an upgraded car (termed a "betterment") out of the carrier though it can and does happen if you happen to find a really good deal out there.

Also, if totaled, they give you the agreed upon value of the car (almost NEVER a good idea to agree to their first # and have pics and receipts available to show condition and upgrades if you have them!), along with agreed upon value goes the amount of sales taxes (federal and state) as well as any local registration fee's and then the deductible is deducted (hence the name) from that overall total and they cut you a check.

Simply put:

Agreed price
+ Taxes
+ Registration
- Deductible
= Total check to go get new Lotus

Sorry to hear it was gone but as mentioned before, I'm just glad you didn't lose your feet or lose control and plow into something (or someone) else!

Only a few carriers will give Agreed Value or Replacement Cost coverage. The former will generally be through carriers who specialize in collector/exotic cars and the latter can be obtained only on new cars and for a certain time/mileage period. Otherwise, all he's going to get is Actual Cash Value. I would say that if being upside-down is an issue or a concern that one should get Gap coverage either through their bank (if available) or through their insurer. That will at least cover the difference between ACV and the loan balance.

[Shaggy]

Originally Posted by kaiynne

Thanks for the reply. What i am worried about in my case is that i paid a lot less for my car than msrp. Its a long story but lets just say it begins with watching two elises get destroyed in front of me. So if my car was totaled would I get the price i paid for the car which could in no way get me a new one or would i get the market value for my car which very well could? And is there some provision i could pay for in my insurance to make sure that i get the market value of the car. Thanks again for the help.

This should help if you are ever in the situation. My Elise was totaled earlier this year and my insurance essentially agreed on the average price listed by NADA within a few hours. Their initial number was in the low 30's, they quickly met me at the NADA price though. If you have a hardtop, lifestyle paint, sport pack, etc then you could probably get a bit more. It doesn't get you "new" pricing but it gets pretty close.

[DragonRider1]

Originally Posted by Icedog_16

Only a few carriers will give Agreed Value or Replacement Cost coverage.

Very true which is why I used Agreed Price. When it comes to these situations you will have a bit of leeway when negotiating the final settlement with an insurance company. They are not a 'take it or leave it' situation as many would suggest. If you go back and re-read what I had up there you would see where I got Agreed Price from. It's generally how it's done by 95% of the carriers out there. Also, it's almost never good to accept their first offer unless you already feel it's a very strong offer. There is a % built into reserve and many (if not most) insurance companies will bonus the adjusters based on how much they save the companies. Just keep that in mind.

[MickOpalak]

Originally Posted by Catbird

If the car is totaled.. do I have to turn in my KG mafia decoder ring?

For the last time, its Krypton Green Brigade: K.G.B.!