Road Hazard last night in Annapolis!

[Icedog_16]

Originally Posted by DragonRider1

Very true which is why I used Agreed Price. When it comes to these situations you will have a bit of leeway when negotiating the final settlement with an insurance company. They are not a 'take it or leave it' situation as many would suggest. If you go back and re-read what I had up there you would see where I got Agreed Price from. It's generally how it's done by 95% of the carriers out there. Also, it's almost never good to accept their first offer unless you already feel it's a very strong offer. There is a % built into reserve and many (if not most) insurance companies will bonus the adjusters based on how much they save the companies. Just keep that in mind.

I think that you misunderstood me (or perhaps I misunderstood you). Agreed Value is a coverage endorsement, not a formula for determining loss settlement. Agreed Value is an endorsement that states before the time of the loss (ie, at policy inception) what loss settlement will be. In other words, you and the company agree at the time the policy is written that settlement will be $X in the event of a total loss; the 'negotiating' is done before you've even had the loss. Replacement Cost is an endorsement stating that the company will pay what it costs to get you a comparable new car (ie, new for old). See where I'm coming from? With an Actual Cash Value settlement, you may not agree with what is being offered since there may be several sources that can be used to obtain that value. That's where you may be able negotiate a more preferential settlement as you have mentioned; however, that is not what is meant by the term Agreed Value; and Agreed Value and Replacement Cost are not interchangeable terms

[DragonRider1]

Originally Posted by Icedog_16

I think that you misunderstood me (or perhaps I misunderstood you).

Agreed Value is a coverage endorsement, not a formula for determining loss settlement. Agreed Value is an endorsement that states before the time of the loss (ie, at policy inception) what loss settlement will be.

the 'negotiating' is done before you've even had the loss.

Replacement Cost is an endorsement stating that the company will pay what it costs to get you a comparable new car (ie, new for old). See where I'm coming from?

With an Actual Cash Value settlement, you may not agree with what is being offered since there may be several sources that can be used to obtain that value. That's where you may be able negotiate a more preferential settlement as you have mentioned; however, that is not what is meant by the term Agreed Value; and Agreed Value and Replacement Cost are not interchangeable terms

You and I are both saying the same thing but I think while I understand what you are saying you are missing what I am saying. Agreed PRICE, not value, comes with a settlement on an ACV. Agreed Value, as you stated, is a pre-incident policy where you are insured for a stated value. Once you end up in a claim situation with an ACV involved then the final numbers will have to be agreed upon by both the claimant and the insurer for fair value and that is where the negotitions come in. See, we are on the same line of thinking.

I stand by the 'never take the first offer' as it's usually a low-ball deal. Not always by much, but usually they hold back a few %. Some insurers are horrible about it and make rediculous offers and try to infer a take it or leave it (two of those are large and nationally known) and a few are usually within 2-3% of the value from the outset. Everything else falls in between. Do your own homework and find similar vehicles with the same options in a near-by region (not always easy with our cars) and know what the value should be.

[Icedog_16]

Originally Posted by DragonRider1

You and I are both saying the same thing but I think while I understand what you are saying you are missing what I am saying. Agreed PRICE, not value, comes with a settlement on an ACV. Agreed Value, as you stated, is a pre-incident policy where you are insured for a stated value. Once you end up in a claim situation with an ACV involved then the final numbers will have to be agreed upon by both the claimant and the insurer for fair value and that is where the negotitions come in. See, we are on the same line of thinking.

I stand by the 'never take the first offer' as it's usually a low-ball deal. Not always by much, but usually they hold back a few %. Some insurers are horrible about it and make rediculous offers and try to infer a take it or leave it (two of those are large and nationally known) and a few are usually within 2-3% of the value from the outset. Everything else falls in between. Do your own homework and find similar vehicles with the same options in a near-by region (not always easy with our cars) and know what the value should be.

Gotcha! Had my insurance agent hat on too tight! I think it was when you threw in the issue of Replacement Cost coverage and kaiynne's original question about ensuring that such a scenario doesn't happen that I was under the impression that you were referring then to an Agreed Value policy, since one would be best off dealing with the issue pre-loss.

[Catbird]

I've been waiting for an adjuster to call. I sent up a red flag today.
I should hear something in the morning..
I guess I'm not too put out at this point.. the weather is cooling off here,
but I do want to know if I need to start my search again, and how much money I have to do so...
I'll update you when I have more info.....

Thanks for all of your concern and help with this..
Steve

[ryoung99]

Originally Posted by Catbird

I've been waiting for an adjuster to call. I sent up a red flag today.
I should hear something in the morning..
I guess I'm not too put out at this point.. the weather is cooling off here,
but I do want to know if I need to start my search again, and how much money I have to do so...
I'll update you when I have more info.....

Thanks for all of your concern and help with this..
Steve

Steve,

My thoughts and prayers are with you. I hope it turns out well.

Best wishes

[DragonRider1]

Any updates???

[Catbird]

Adjuster came this morning....
It looks like a trip to Chiswell is in order. He had no clue how to begin to price it.
I'll call to set that up for next week.. I'm hoping to have them look at it while I wait.

[IsellLotus]

Originally Posted by Catbird

Adjuster came this morning....
It looks like a trip to Chiswell is in order. He had no clue how to begin to price it.
I'll call to set that up for next week.. I'm hoping to have them look at it while I wait.

Call me when your on the way!!!

[Catbird]

Originally Posted by IsellLotus

Call me when your on the way!!!

I'll call Marty in the morning...
Hope I can come in and bang away at the laptop while your pros take a look.
I really hope she can be fixed.. I've become attached over the last month..
I'll give you a heads up when I'm on my way...
Thanks

[jlj3394]

What helped me get a new clam instead of a repaired clam was a copy of the Lotus manual where it says "Don't f'ing repair it, replace it."

The manual will also say "aluminium damage = replacement of tub." I would send a copy of that over to the insurance company.

Once they have that in their face, they will not balk at totalling it. Doing so would subject them to tremendous liability.

They chose to insure a car that is not repairable in the same manner that other cars are. When they did that, they agreed to repair it as the mfg states. Don't let them wiggle out of it.

[serpent]

Originally Posted by jlj3394

What helped me get a new clam instead of a repaired clam was a copy of the Lotus manual where it says "Don't f'ing repair it, replace it."

The manual will also say "aluminium damage = replacement of tub." I would send a copy of that over to the insurance company.

Once they have that in their face, they will not balk at totalling it. Doing so would subject them to tremendous liability.

They chose to insure a car that is not repairable in the same manner that other cars are. When they did that, they agreed to repair it as the mfg states. Don't let them wiggle out of it.

+1

[Aedo]

Catbird for your information the quote below is the relevant section of the service manual.

Service Manual
The bonded and rivetted alloy chassis structure described above is considered a non-serviceable jig built unit to which no structural repairs are approved. Superficial, cosmetic, or non-structural localised damage may be repaired as necessary, but in the case of accident damage resulting in significant bending, tearing or distortion of the aluminium chassis such that the specified suspension geometry cannot be achieved by the standard range of suspension adjustment provided, the recommended repair is to renew the partial body assembly, which comprises the chassis and roll over bar together with jig bonded composite rear bulkhead, body sills, windscreen frame and crash structure, and the radiator feed and return pipes, heater pipes, battery cable and clutch pipe which are all routed within the sill panels.

[Westrock]

<-------

Exige Vs Wood Block here. I ended up buying mine back from the insurance company. Since in my mind it was not much structural stuff that was damaged I ended up epoxing aluminum sheet metal over the gouges to cover the holes. Its not as pretty as a proper car, but I do own the car now

So keeping it is something to consider, if they do total it out. I did send an email to Group Lotus UK with pictures and they sent back a reply stating the damage was not repairable. You may try if you are really wanting to get the car totaled.

However, be aware that you would probably not be able to get a traditional loan to refinance the car. I ended up doing a 1 year 401K loan (and hey with the market the ways its been I probably lost less then I would have without the loan!)

[jlj3394]

Originally Posted by Westrock

<-------

Exige Vs Wood Block here. I ended up buying mine back from the insurance company. Since in my mind it was not much structural stuff that was damaged I ended up epoxing aluminum sheet metal over the gouges to cover the holes. Its not as pretty as a proper car, but I do own the car now

So something to consider, if they do total it out. I did send an email to Group Lotus UK with pictures and they sent back a reply stating the damage was not repairable. You may try if you are really wanting to get the car totaled.

Also a good idea. Lotus has 3 main incentives to doing this:
1. They sell another car
2. They don't get sued if it later kills someone
3. They don't have their reputation hurt by an accident caused by improper repair

[foosh]

Service Manual
The bonded and rivetted alloy chassis structure described above is considered a non-serviceable jig built unit to which no structural repairs are approved. Superficial, cosmetic, or non-structural localised damage may be repaired as necessary, but in the case of accident damage resulting in significant bending, tearing or distortion of the aluminium chassis such that the specified suspension geometry cannot be achieved by the standard range of suspension adjustment provided, the recommended repair is to renew the partial body assembly, which comprises the chassis and roll over bar together with jig bonded composite rear bulkhead, body sills, windscreen frame and crash structure, and the radiator feed and return pipes, heater pipes, battery cable and clutch pipe which are all routed within the sill panels.

Hmmm.....interesting. It's been awhile since I read that section, but the part in bold above begs a question. What if a car (or this particular car) with this type of damage checks out just fine on the alignment rack?

[serpent]

Originally Posted by foosh

Hmmm.....interesting. It's been awhile since I read that section, but the part in bold above begs a question. What if a car (or this particular car) with this type of damage checks out just fine on the alignment rack?

i dont think that would matter...the recommended repair would still be the same.

[Shaggy]

Any update on this from insurance?

[Catbird]

Hi to all.
I expect the insurance company to total the car this coming week.
It's a shame. It is clearly the least damaged of all the cars I've seen on the forum or on e-bay that have been totaled.
I've had a ton of interest in the car once it has been totaled.
I will post when that happens.

I'm not sure about the in's and out's of a salvaged title car.
Guess I'll do a search and read up.
If anyone can help me place a value on it that may help.
I'll post pictures of the damage once I have an idea from the insurance company about their offer..
Thanks

[kestrel74]

Originally Posted by Catbird

If anyone can help me place a value on it that may help.

You'd probably be ahead of the game by parting it out...

[...m...]

...in my previous experience with a car which was totalled, the insurance company took possession themselves for salvage, and all i was left with was a check for the pre-collision value of the car...