Editing

[Aedo]

I think everyone has made the point that they wanted to make in this thread.

So before it degenerates I have closed it until Admin can read it. Once Nadeem has a chance to read this thread he can re-open it and answer the question.

If anyone has something they would like to add let me know and I'll reopen it.

Thanks

[Administrator]

Yes I made the edit function only available for 15 minutes after posting to keep in line with what we do on our other sites. I didn't know Randy had it set to the unlimited option until I went in and checked. Any member could have easily removed all their informative posts from the site. I see that as counterproductive for the site in general and am interested in looking out for the forum and it's members that come here for technical information. I am surprised anyone even noticed.

Nadeem

[dma550]

Originally Posted by Administrator

Any member could have easily removed all their informative posts from the site.

I think most people would feel that this presses content ownership buttons.

[Administrator]

Originally Posted by dma550

I think most people would feel that this presses content ownership buttons.

I will quote from the TOS that the original site owner Randy Chase wrote that you all agreed to when signing up here:

"Copyright and ownership. By posting anything here, you agree that you have control over the copyright of the material. If ownership of text or images is determined to belong to some other entity and they ask for it to be removed, it will be complied with. Copyright of what you write will always belong to you if you don't knowingly assign it to another person with your informed consent. A forum owner however has legal liability over the contents of his forum - this usually means ownership of the posts - but not necessarily the copyright. In other words, it is your work, but you assign ownership. By using this forum, you grant LotusTalk permission to own rights to your publishing, and posting (meaning, by using this forum and submitting any information, you hereby give site owner all rights of your submission and content). By accepting this agreement, you agree all previous submissions made by oneself are owned by site owner."

I am in the process of updating this agreement to reflect the vendor rules we have in place, so this is a good reference for what everybody signed up for and already agreed to. Thanks!

Nadeem

[webowser]

Like so many others, I'm outa here.

Bye

[LotinElite]

"You nailed it right there. People are being "civilized" but complaining about everything under the sun knowing full well the reasoning behind all of this. Please keep any further complaints to PMs instead of creating a thread with a bunch of linkbacks to gay porn sites (with Randy Chase's name on them). Not good form IMO. This thread has served it's purpose...

Nadeem"

What? Gay porn sites with Randy's name on them? Please explain this.

Also, we do not know "full well" (or at all actually) the reason behind any of the Orwellian behavior that the site's ownership has exhibited. Changing the editing time limit to be "in line" with other websites is not a reason it's an excuse.

[BrianK]

Originally Posted by LotinElite

Changing the editing time limit to be "in line" with other websites is not a reason it's an excuse.

I have to say, I agree.

[Flash G]

I think the administration here should step back, take a deep breath, and really think about the changes and tactics recently employed here.

This board consists of a very small and tight-nit community of Lotus enthusiasts. Lotustalk is not the sum of its servers, ads or administrators. It is the sum of the people and enthusiasts who contribute to the board each day. If you drive the people away, there is no Lotustalk.

We've always been allowed to pretty much openly discuss almost anything here like adults. But if people start to believe that they can't be open and honest about what's happening here, and that their posts will be deleted or threads killed... that will finish off LT for good... if it isn't already too late.

[skelliott2]

You are concerned about keeping technical information in tact, but what you didn't realize when you made the editing change is that there are "sticky" posts that people (non-moderators) had been adding to over the years as new wisdom was gleened and found to be of good general reference. With your editing change, you have now made it impossible for these individuals who maintain the various sticky posts to keep them up to date. You are in essence acting against your own best interests. Just thought I would enlighten you on this.

[BrianK]

Originally Posted by Flash G

But if people start to believe that they can't be open and honest about what's happening here, and that their posts will be deleted or threads killed... that will finish off LT for good... if it isn't already too late.

:: recalls Lotus USA's "official" forum which seemed to succumb to a similar demise back in '04 or '05 ::

[lotusforsale]

Originally Posted by skelliott2

You are concerned about keeping technical information in tact, but what you didn't realize when you made the editing change is that there are "sticky" posts that people (non-moderators) had been adding to over the years as new wisdom was gleened and found to be of good general reference. With your editing change, you have now made it impossible for these individuals who maintain the various sticky posts to keep them up to date. You are in essence acting against your own best interests. Just thought I would enlighten you on this.

Point made. But playing just a little devil's advocate...the contrary is true, too.

Without limiting editing, folks could go in and delete content from those sticky posts if they got a hair ball for some reason.

There is more than a little gray area in this.

[RacyTracy]

I can't speak for the administration. I can address what I see from my point of view. First, you need to know that Autoforums paid a HUGE amount of money for this forum. It only makes sense that they need to protect what they bought and take measures to prevent people from coming back here and removing their posts...and yes, some of this had already taken place. Editing of posts for up to 30 days is allowed. That should be good for sellers who need to adjust prices, let people who made typos or want to add to a recent post and make any other changes they need to make. Yes, it does affect people that want to edit an older post. Is it a pain to PM a moderator and ask them to make the change for them? Yes. But I am more than happy to do that. But we can't wake up one morning and find that overnight the 30 top posters came in and all removed their posts. The investment needs to be protected.

As to deleted posts or threads....a LOT of people have signed up over at TL. Some will leave here and stay there. Some will remain at both places. Heck, 1 or 2 may even come back. (I might suggest all the efforts being spent there to trash LT could be better spent to improve TL.) A small percentage...a very small percentage seem intent on coming back here and causing trouble. You are NOT allowed to come here and promote another forum. This is not a new rule. We have been enforcing this and have deleted posts that promoted some those 'other' Lotus forums. Disruptive threads and posts will be removed. Life needs to and WILL continue on this forum. Perhaps not to the degree it was, but it will still be an enjoyable forum for many people.

I'll be glad to tell you what I can...but it was another busy day and I only got the chance to write this out now.

[RacyTracy]

Originally Posted by skelliott2

You are concerned about keeping technical information in tact, but what you didn't realize when you made the editing change is that there are "sticky" posts that people (non-moderators) had been adding to over the years as new wisdom was gleened and found to be of good general reference. With your editing change, you have now made it impossible for these individuals who maintain the various sticky posts to keep them up to date. You are in essence acting against your own best interests. Just thought I would enlighten you on this.

i addressed this in my post above.....but the abilty to edit is the ability to delete. You're given two options, 1- take away member's abilty to edit....or 2- the chance of finding thousands of essential posts missing....if you're a member, you choose 2....but if you spent a lot of money for a forum, you choose 1.

[Lancia]

Funny.
If it was my money, I would only be interested in making people want to keep their posts up and add to them.

[Aedo]

Just to be clear - Nadeem has updated the function so that posts can be edited for up to 30days.

[RacyTracy]

Originally Posted by Lancia

Funny.
If it was my money, I would only be interested in making people want to keep their posts up and add to them.

That is true of course except there is no way of knowing who is updating and who is deleting until it is too late.

[LotinElite]

Originally Posted by RacyTracy

That is true of course except there is no way of knowing who is updating and who is deleting until it is too late.

What Lancia is saying is that instead of addressing the symptom of the problem (people deleting content) maybe one would be better served to address the cause (why people would delete in the first place).

[Administrator]

Originally Posted by LotinElite

What Lancia is saying is that instead of addressing the symptom of the problem (people deleting content) maybe one would be better served to address the cause (why people would delete in the first place).

It came down to me enforcing the rules and protecting the paying vendors on the site. How fair is it for them when other vendors who are making a large amount of money and have even grown their business through this site can advertise without paying? The only vendors that had posting privilege removed were those that continued to sell here without paying or canceling with us. Bottom line.

As an example, when you have a cell phone contract, do you continue to use it and not pay then claim foul when you are sent a bill? How far would that get you? Would the phone company suspend your service? I am sure they would.

Nadeem

[MNlotus]

this is f*$ken BS!! i cant edit my posts now to take out the parts i sold!? i have a thread where im selling all my parts and now i cant even keep a current list of the parts i have/sold. What the hell happened to this site!? i was fine with the forum war and didnt care until now. This is BS!

[RacyTracy]

Originally Posted by MNlotus

this is f*$ken BS!! i cant edit my posts now to take out the parts i sold!? i have a thread where im selling all my parts and now i cant even keep a current list of the parts i have/sold. What the hell happened to this site!? i was fine with the forum war and didnt care until now. This is BS!

Just post what you sold or send me a PM. I'll be happy to correct your original 'for sale' thread.