Noble Noble owners: (the first noble is more of a description of your character)

[Rice_Patrol]

I'm am currently looking into these as a potential replacement for my Elise. How do you like them? Potential problems? What to look for when finding one? All this and more, coming up in the next few replies...

[Randy Chase]

Love the car.

I liked the Elise, but the Noble is a lot of things the Elise was not. Specifically:

1. Power and torque. The 2ZZ was a bit of perky fun, but wringing more power out of it, specially lower end torque, was not easy and ended up costing a lot. The Noble, a simple tune and I get 100 more hp. With 500 pounds of torque now, and 500 wheel hp, I am happy with the Noble drivetrain.

2. Clutch. I was not happy with the stock Elise clutch.

3. Clams. I love that I can hinge up the clams to gain access to stuff.

4. AC. It blows very cold.

5. Noise. I like the turbo noises. The V6 sounds a little better to me also.

6. Interior. The Noble has a nicer refined finish. More roomy, specially between passengers.

7. Easier to get in and out. Not a lot, but a little bit easier.

8. Ability to easily run fatter tires. I am running 315-18 rears on the Noble.

9. Fragility. I think the Noble is stronger and not as easily broken. Engine, body, chassis, parts.

10. I think it is even more rare and exotic looking than the Elise.

11. Full rollcage, not just a rollbar.

12. Better brakes. Better shifting.

13. Nice gauges.

14. Heel and toe is easier.

15. Fuses easier to access. Most things easier in fact.

16. Better visibility.

17. Probably depreciates less.

18. Noble did not use the cheezy press in plastic fasteners I came to hate. Things tend to be over engineered as compared to under-engineered.




What I liked about the Elise more:

1. Easier to get service. More places. Aftermarket is similar.

2. Removable top. I miss that.

3. It was 400 pounds lighter. A bit more nimble.

4. I was a fan of the company and it was a Lotus.

5. Larger community.

6. Easy to reach everything inside, specially the radio. Noble is a little harder.

7. Elise has a boot/trunk. Noble has a bit more room behind the seats, but that is all.

8. Elise windows roll all the way down. Wish the Noble's did.

9. Easy to remove belly pans and diffuser. Noble has HUNDREDS of screws.

10. Battery easier to access.

11. Those cool little details like the extruded pedals, the door hinge, dash tray.

12. More consistent builds. Easier to predict reliability.



Summing it up... the Noble is still new to me, but I think I am really happy about owning one. I don't mean that in any way to suggest it the better car. It is a different car and suits me quite well. I am now looking forward to the Rossion Q1. The power in the Noble is addicting. A slight press of the gas and the car shoots to over a 100mph in a blink. I don't feel like I have to wring out the engine so high to get there. I like that.

[Randy Chase]

Potential problems are mainly heat related. The car creates a LOT of heat back there with limited air flow to get rid of it. Most owners have done some common upgrades for this.

Last week, I upgraded the intercooler and changed to a new aftermarket exhaust, plus did some other things.

Common issues-
Fuel pump relay and mod.
Alternator wiring and insulation (heat destroys the wires, this happened to mine)
Turbo oil lines and restrictors.

Not a long list. You just need a guru to take it to, or be handy with a wrench.

[jim-clayton]

your killing me

[Darth G-F]

Originally Posted by Randy Chase

Things tend to be over engineered as compared to under-engineered.

Potential problems are mainly heat related. The car creates a LOT of heat back there with limited air flow to get rid of it. Most owners have done some common upgrades for this.

Last week, I upgraded the intercooler and changed to a new aftermarket exhaust, plus did some other things.

Common issues-
Fuel pump relay and mod.
Alternator wiring and insulation (heat destroys the wires, this happened to mine)
Turbo oil lines and restrictors.

Not trying to pick up a fight Randy but... You say things are over engineered in one post. Yet the following post you lost a lot of things that sounds like it is in fact, under engineered.

Heat, fuel pump relay, wiring, turbo oil lines...

Sure the Elise with the wimpy motor is, in stock tune, highly reliable. The Noble is a beast and clearly needs more efficient parts. But in the end, which car is more likely to lap for a full weekend and come back on its own power?

I too am considering the Noble as a replacement. But the way I read it, the Elise is much more reliable (for track duty?) than a Noble. Is that right? Even with the Ronin Katana, my car runs flawlessly on the track and on the street. I want to know can this be done with a Noble?

[slaughtr]

I'm also interested in a Noble/Rossion. I've spent some time on the Noble forum and it seems like there are quite as few threads with common problems, not unlike the Lotus. That's ok with me as long as there are well sorted fixes though. Any thoughts, Randy?

Also, I had one friend tell me that the handling is less than stellar. I'm not sure where he gets his info from... he might be full of hot air. Any thoughts?

[Randy Chase]

Originally Posted by Darth G-F

Not trying to pick up a fight Randy but... You say things are over engineered in one post. Yet the following post you lost a lot of things that sounds like it is in fact, under engineered.

Heat, fuel pump relay, wiring, turbo oil lines...

Sure the Elise with the wimpy motor is, in stock tune, highly reliable. The Noble is a beast and clearly needs more efficient parts. But in the end, which car is more likely to lap for a full weekend and come back on its own power?

I too am considering the Noble as a replacement. But the way I read it, the Elise is much more reliable (for track duty?) than a Noble. Is that right? Even with the Ronin Katana, my car runs flawlessly on the track and on the street. I want to know can this be done with a Noble?

By over-engineered, I meant that if the part needed a single screw to hold it on, the Noble has 3 bolts. Lotus used a plastic snappy thing. That is the difference. I would rather have the three bolts. One could certainly make the case that over engineering would in fact be using the single plastic snappy thing. I think I picked the wrong wording there, because it indeeds takes more engineering sometimes to use the lighter bits. The Noble has more CAPACITY in the way it is designed, which ends up being both a positive and negative.

BOTH cars, have many design elements I find myself being impressed by. BOTH cars have some design elements that make me shake my head. When working on the cars, I find the Lotus with a higher percentage of "why the hell did they do that!" areas.

As far as reliability, I think the common issues in the Noble are now well known and easily sorted. And I had my share of problems in my Lotus, some of which I attribute to my mods.

If I had to do it all over again, I really would have kept the Elise stock. For me, I have more confidence in the Noble coming home from the track on its own power. As time went on, I became more and more aware of the relative fragility of the Elise.

[Randy Chase]

Originally Posted by slaughtr

I'm also interested in a Noble/Rossion. I've spent some time on the Noble forum and it seems like there are quite as few threads with common problems, not unlike the Lotus. That's ok with me as long as there are well sorted fixes though. Any thoughts, Randy?

Yep. The problems are well known as are the fixes. The only question is, if you buy a used Noble, have the fixes been implemented or not? If not, then you should do them.

I do find one small part of the ownership a little frustrating. There is an awesome owners manual that details how to build the entire car down to the screws. Yay! You can get the software for the ECU from 1G Racing. Yay! But many of the mods are done by a few aftermarket buiders and tuners and most owners either don't bother to post details or they just have the shop do it. Do there is not as much information that is easy to find YET on Nobleforums.

Also, I had one friend tell me that the handling is less than stellar. I'm not sure where he gets his info from... he might be full of hot air. Any thoughts?

Yeah. Any single car/driver can experience anything. But the Noble can break track records. At the recent VIR meet, a Noble on street tires broke most VIR track records. Some of that is power, but the car handles like an Elise.

[evomind]

Originally Posted by Darth G-F

Not trying to pick up a fight Randy but... You say things are over engineered in one post. Yet the following post you lost a lot of things that sounds like it is in fact, under engineered.

Heat, fuel pump relay, wiring, turbo oil lines...

Sure the Elise with the wimpy motor is, in stock tune, highly reliable. The Noble is a beast and clearly needs more efficient parts. But in the end, which car is more likely to lap for a full weekend and come back on its own power?

I too am considering the Noble as a replacement. But the way I read it, the Elise is much more reliable (for track duty?) than a Noble. Is that right? Even with the Ronin Katana, my car runs flawlessly on the track and on the street. I want to know can this be done with a Noble?

in some ways it may be over engineered, in others it is not.
if you are buying used, make sure you know some history on the car, especially who built it.
i bought mine slightly used but many things chase is doing now to his car was already done on mine. the person who built mine is experienced and used bolts that dont warp and fall out of the engine compartment, bigger intercooler, etc etc.....if you buy brand new or used and certain things are not done, expect to do them. i can tell you that without another oil cooler, you wont spend much time on a roadrace course b4 coming in to let the oil cool down. thats the one thing mine didnt have. (previous owner didnt track the car)
anyway, to answer your question, if long term reliability is what you want, i would generally stick with production cars and just buy an extended warranty.
i have no political or business affiliations with anything lotus so i can come right out and say it.....over all the elise isnt nearly the car the noble is.
my list of similarities....
both lightweight
both english designed
both "kit carish"
thats it.

and slaughtr, who told you the handling of the noble is less than stellar?
hmmmm....most composed track car ive driven.

[PhlypSide]

Originally Posted by Randy Chase

...... And I had my share of problems in my Lotus, some of which I attribute to my mods.

If I had to do it all over again, I really would have kept the Elise stock....

YAY! Stock powertrain FTW!!!

[evomind]

Originally Posted by Randy Chase

Yep. The problems are well known as are the fixes. The only question is, if you buy a used Noble, have the fixes been implemented or not? If not, then you should do them.

I do find one small part of the ownership a little frustrating. There is an awesome owners manual that details how to build the entire car down to the screws. Yay! You can get the software for the ECU from 1G Racing. Yay! But many of the mods are done by a few aftermarket buiders and tuners and most owners either don't bother to post details or they just have the shop do it. Do there is not as much information that is easy to find YET on Nobleforums.




Yeah. Any single car/driver can experience anything. But the Noble can break track records. At the recent VIR meet, a Noble on street tires broke most VIR track records. Some of that is power, but the car handles like an Elise.

to me it handles totally different to the elise....imo.

[slaughtr]

Originally Posted by evomind

and slaughtr, who told you the handling of the noble is less than stellar?
hmmmm....most composed track car ive driven.

Sombody who probably doesn't have any idea what he's talking about.

Originally Posted by evomind

to me it handles totally different to the elise....imo.

Care to elaborate?

Make sure the car is washed and detailed for mid-September.

[evomind]

Originally Posted by slaughtr

Sombody who probably doesn't have any idea what he's talking about.



Care to elaborate?

Make sure the car is washed and detailed for mid-September.

theres actually more road feel in the elise. prob the fact that the elise doesnt have power steering and the noble does contributes to that.
the noble seems much more planted than my elise ever did, especially in the rear. (i used stock geometry settings, lss)
the noble seems a little more forgiving....the noble feels more neutral handling. easier to control the car while sliding the rear end out....
i understand others may feel differently....these are my observations.

[Randy Chase]

My Elise was probably not like your Elise since I had done a few tweaks to it.

The Elise as I mentioned felt more nimble and a bit more communicative. The Noble does feel more planted. But then the Elise was pretty planted also with the fat rubber on it.

My comment was more, not that they are the same, but that in the end, they have similar performances in handling.

Main difference for me is that the Elise was more faster to transition in quick elements. Touch the steering wheel, the car moves.

[evomind]

Originally Posted by Randy Chase

My Elise was probably not like your Elise since I had done a few tweaks to it.

The Elise as I mentioned felt more nimble and a bit more communicative. The Noble does feel more planted. But then the Elise was pretty planted also with the fat rubber on it.

My comment was more, not that they are the same, but that in the end, they have similar performances in handling.

Main difference for me is that the Elise was more faster to transition in quick elements. Touch the steering wheel, the car moves.

to your first point....indeed. i had a few mods, but basically stock. i also ran stock geometry....ran slightly wider rubber, went from lss to ohlins, which helped greatly because i didnt like the lss dampening rate.

to your second comment i would mostly agree....the elise is a bit more communicative, which i pointed out...as far as tires, ill take your word for it. i went with 1 size wider tires as per puertas' recommendation and i liked that, but i never ran the widths you ran when you raced it....


third point....i dont doubt that either, imo they just achieve it with maybe a different feel.

fourth point....i would agree here too...at least to a general point...the elise transitions better than any car ive driven....
for one corner or turn my speeds in a viper were probably abt the same as the elise....when that became a left-right-left turn, in quick succession, thats where the elise really shined and bigger heavier cars like a viper had more difficulty. (well, at least I had more difficulty).


seems to me the noble is easier to control the car when the azz end slides out. i always had to fight the elise more to keep the back end behind me. maybe the noble is more nuetral? maybe driving style? dont know, but i can slide the back end of the noble out and feel confident and composed.


some things id like to add, and i think chase may have touched upon it...
the noble build quality is very, very good. everything is tight and solid as far as the chassis and body panels go. (engine and trans is assembled and installed at destination and thats where most of the inconsistencies come from) in fact i was very surprised by the build quality. same plant as superformance and the over all quality is similar. the paint is flawless and the metallic sparkles. photos dont do these cars justice.
they dont rattle, they dont squeak. the ride quality is also very good for a sportcar...
awesome, fun, cars....are they perfect? of course not.

[JLSELISE]

Lots of +1s from me here.
Although I don't own an Elise (got my deposit for an '05 back after one drive in a Noble ), I did spend a day driving one on the Hethel track a few years ago. The torque the Noble can deliver while being perfectly planted and amazingly forgiving makes it a "no contest" comparison, IMO.

[Noisycow]

Lots of Nobles have just come up on Ebay 5-6 of them ---

noble, eBay Motors, Less than 20,000 miles items on eBay.com

[Randy Chase]

I wonder if some of that is because of the release of the Rossion Q1.

Probably also some normal "heading into winter" selling too.

[FLuXeXigeS]

the Noble is a good "step up" from an elise/exige, since most people here want more power...its the next level above our little lotus cars

Noble is one of a few cars i'd be willing to get rid of my exige for!!!

[FLuXeXigeS]

rossion Q1 is the shizzle!!!

how much better is it than the previous model?

how much does a "turn key" Q1 run for?