$15K power challenge

[sleepless]

Here is the challenge:

- $15K budget; installed and ready to drive
- target power is 250HP minimum
- must be reliable enough for lots of track driving
- must have a good ecu program (drivable, no stalling, but can be optimazed for WOT)
- prefer naturally aspirated but will accept a supercharger if it can meet the above parameters; no turbocharging
- needs to work in an 05 Elise and a 06 Exige

Some possibilties might be:

- Tripoint SC
- built 2zz (by who?)
- built Honda (which one? by who?)
- some other motor

What do your recommend?

[Andrikos]

That's a nice budget!

Although I prefer turbos for their efficiency, it is quite obvious that the Elise is a better match for a SC setup.

Tripoint with an intercooler
OR
Ragnorak 280RR (if such a thing even exists) kit

borh fit in your budget quite nicely.

Fzust is getting the 280RR and mentioned that he'll have news for us in the near future.
So, if you're patient, sit and wait a bit...

[imoz]

Does it have to be streetable and pass emissions/state inspection?

[008]

Are there any modern racecars that use superchargers? If it's a track only car why not consider turbos? On the other hand why not sell the Elise and strip down your Cayman to 25/2600lbs?

[Buz]

How about the S2000 motor? I do not know if it can be used transversally. The 2 liter rips with just an exhaust and ecu. The 2.2 needs cams, valve springs, exhaust, and ecu to make good power. both can top 250 crank hp n/a.

[SweetDaddyD]

75 HP Nitrous kit, leave everything else alone. Spend remaining $14K on something else, like adding power by adding lightness. Maybe a lighter wheel tire combo, and lighter brakes- aluminum belled or carbon kevlar.

I think the Venom kit has a mode that is more progressive than the traditional harsh power on of most Nitrous kits.

[codymac]

Originally Posted by sleepless

What do your recommend?

I'd recommend talking to Bernard Scouse. He's got an Audi conversion that goes for a hair over that, yields 250hp, and is very well sorted.

http://www.auto-teknix.co.uk/audi-conv.htm

eta: Oops, sorry... just noticed the "no turbo" bit although I can't see why a well-sorted set-up from an OEM turbo'd car is objectionable.

[WhitePlume]

How about a rotary conversion? Might be just shy of the 250bhp mark, but the new 13B "Renesis" gets you 240bhp N/A and weighs less than the 2ZZ. Do you have a torque goal?

[choi0706]

try contacting littlerocket for a built2zz.. he can help with your power needs if you decide the NA route..

you might also want to look into the 3zz Trial kit.. either way littlerocket can help you..

[kaz]

Can you get 250 NA out of this engine? I mean with it *slightly resembling a streetable engine that makes ok mileage? That is one mean 2ZZ lol...

I think currently until the 280RR and the factory kits, your only option is Tripoint or a huge engine conversion. The engine conversion seems more difficult since it needs a new ECU solution (unless I am missing something). The Tripoint at least is a known entity that is working perfectly, and they will have the intercooler ready for your budget (you might even be able to fly Reggie over!). Otherwise yeah, find out what you can from Littlerocket in terms of the 3ZZ NA or built 2ZZ's...

[Tim Taylor]

So, sleepless, lets see. Has to be max of $15k for two cars, Elise 05 and Exige 06 - so thats $7500 apiece - right? ;^)

[pianomaniac]

How about the electric motor from the Tesla? Lots of torque, meets your HP but doesn't make noise.

Try contacting AC propulsion of San Dimas, CA.

May sound korny, but hey.....why not?

[Boosted2.0]

250 BHP NA is very possible. To the tire for 15K its possible but hasn't been done. Its going to require a LOT of custom work and higher revs than stock.

I would just put a turbo and a Power FC and Autometer Gauge set for that price though.

[sleepless]

Tim, no, I meant $15K each. A friend has the Exige and we're both contemplating our options for more power. We're both much more interested in a NA solution.

For those that wonder why I specified "no turbos", it is because I don't like how they drive at the track; at least I have not drive a turbo that I liked.

A supercharged 2zz is okay, but I think you need to build it up to be reliable when running over 240HP. My understanding is that the top end of the 2zz is not that strong so I have some concerns about using a 2zz that has not be properly fortified.

Thanks.

[fzust]

Have you tried the FF275? It has a pretty darn small turbo so you are at max boost by 3k. Effectively no boost lag. At least it has less lag than the stock 2zz motor! The turbo is more heat/power efficient. I agree with you about not liking alot of turbos. However, I would recommend driving this one to see what you think. It is the most sorted option out there.

[sleepless]

I suppose I should spend some of that $15K to fly somewhere to test drive the FF275. However, FF says that they recommend their FF380 for track use because the motor is built up. I believe they charge $25K for that option.

Regarding smog/emissions legality... Good question. I could probably give that up since my Elise is 99% track use. Not sure about my friend's Exige. So, for now, let's just say it has to pass emissions testing outside of California and any other superstrict states. In Washington, it just needs to have an OBDII port that says all is cool

[sleepless]

On more requirement: it has to run on 92 octane

[Boosted2.0]

2ZZ top end is plenty strong under 9K RPM.

Anyways you would need the following IMO:

Engine management (Power FC for affordability) HKS FCON VPro would also work just fine.
J&S Safegaurd or HKS Knockamp if you go with the VPro
Injectors - 500cc
Fuel pump - Walboro 255 LPH
Autometer gauges or possibly just adapt a Celica cluster
AEM Wideband O2 with Gauge
Cams
Valves & valve springs
MWR oil pan
CircuitWorx oil pump gear if you can find one
Modified pressure relief on oil pump
accusump
Ballanced bottom end
Carillo or Pauter rods to reduce reciprocating weight
Fidanza flywheel
decent clutch - Southbend for best price for performance - RPS if you're into name brands
Fully Polydyn low friction & ceramic treatment on internals
Upgraded main and rod bearings (MWR)
ARP studs
P&P on head (mainly exhaust but clean up intake)
Race header - probably have to be custom
Oversized throttle body
Modified intake manifold from a Matrix- take the tank off extrude hone and polish the runner and modift the tank for a nice oversize TB off a mustang or something.
Redline to about 9000
Denso IK22 plugs

TWM ITBs would be great but I don't think they would fit without cutting a hole in the firewall.

I'm not sure you can get 250 to the tire with all that, but you ought to get close especially on race gas.

Littlerocket could probably do it for $15K if he felt like bothering. Enginelogics could probably do it for $15K. I could probably do all that for $15K but I'm too busy to take on a project like that until probably next spring.

[Boosted2.0]

No chance you can make 250 HP NA on 92 octane and stay emissions legal and do it for under $15K You need to set some realistic goals.

[008]

Your best bet is probably buying a jdm built motor or trial, but they are going to react much like a turboed motor at those displacements, without the torque. At the track you're never going to be dropping below 5k so lag will not be an issue. Of the turbo cars you've driven on the track, were they track/race cars, or street cars driven on the track. A turbo car built and designed for the track has very little downside when it comes to driving dynamics. Most racecars use turbos as power adders, not superchargers, for good reason. On the street you may have different requirements. Of the cars I've added turbos/superchargers to I've had far less issues with the turbos.