(2ZZ) dry sump? - LotusTalk

codymac · 08-24-2007, 08:18 AM

Is there one?

From what I've seen, there's some good practical (cost-wise) solutions for the Hondas but not much available for the Toyotas outside of the 4A series engines (and those are pricey).

Is there any interest in a dry sump for the 2ZZ? Are we all too weight conscious?

Boosted2.0 · 08-24-2007, 09:02 AM

If you search theres a guy in the UK that had a custom one made, but there are none comercially available

fitfan · 08-24-2007, 11:41 AM

the main benifit is that (assuming the bell housing is not a limiting factor) you can drop the engine and lower the center of gravity in the car.

so unless there is a way to do that.... not "too" much point of going dry sump. personally i am suprised the 2-11 doesn't do this?!?!

jamie · 08-24-2007, 12:12 PM

The one I have seen was on a Red MS car (race car) and its quite a lot of stuff to package eg big oil tank where the boot would be. When I inquired about it they said it really was race only the belt tenson needs adjusting etc. My understanding was that you would not want to lower the motor anyway as it would increase the angles that the CV joints have to work at leading to issues.

fitfan · 08-24-2007, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamie

The one I have seen was on a Red MS car (race car) and its quite a lot of stuff to package eg big oil tank where the boot would be. When I inquired about it they said it really was race only the belt tenson needs adjusting etc. My understanding was that you would not want to lower the motor anyway as it would increase the angles that the CV joints have to work at leading to issues.

...smaller wheels bigger gears is where its at

Dmbrown34 · 08-24-2007, 01:00 PM

Doesnt dry sump usually gain a few HP (i.e. an honest 10 HP to the tires)?

Your crank wont have to slice through all that oil sitting there in a wet slump...same reason why people knife edge their cranks.

When your in an all motor class...ITB, Dry Slump, coated internals and fuel management make the difference.

mark.r · 08-24-2007, 01:53 PM

You could look into the DMC oil pump kit from FF.

MikeW · 08-24-2007, 03:51 PM

The dry sump insures oil to the engine at all times. A wet sump won't do that under all possible conditions. It also pumps oil from the pan into a tank. If designed well, much or the aerated oil goes to the top of the tank, unaerated oil, at the tank bottom supplies the engine. Another benefit is better oil control for the rings. The slight crankcase vacuum causes a pressure differential for the oil rings. While oil is being scraped off the wall, the vacuum helps pull the oil through the holes or slots in the piston groove. You can run less radial tension on the oil rails and gain more power. External pumps can, of, course, be replaced, inspected, and its pressure adjusted without taking off the pan. And yes, you can also expect a power gain from not having all the oil flying around to be collided with by rotating and reciprocating parts.

codymac · 08-24-2007, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeW

The dry sump insures oil to the engine at all times. A wet sump won't do that under all possible conditions. It also pumps oil from the pan into a tank. If designed well, much or the aerated oil goes to the top of the tank, unaerated oil, at the tank bottom supplies the engine. Another benefit is better oil control for the rings. The slight crankcase vacuum causes a pressure differential for the oil rings. While oil is being scraped off the wall, the vacuum helps pull the oil through the holes or slots in the piston groove. You can run less radial tension on the oil rails and gain more power. External pumps can, of, course, be replaced, inspected, and its pressure adjusted without taking off the pan. And yes, you can also expect a power gain from not having all the oil flying around to be collided with by rotating and reciprocating parts.

Hmmm... a bit of better searching turned this up - looks like Lotus already came up with something:

http://www.lotussportcadena.com/car_specification.asp

Note Laminova oil cooler circled in red and oil pump circled in yellow:

Chococar · 08-24-2007, 07:18 PM

I'm interested in a reasonably priced dry sump system.

lucien · 08-24-2007, 07:59 PM

Call Sandy Wilkins at Wilkins Motorsports, 919-218-1866 for information about a dry sump system for your Elise.
Lucien Wilkins

Chris Mackey · 08-24-2007, 08:10 PM

The best reason to get a dry sump is to impress the ladies

codymac · 08-24-2007, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Mackey

The best reason to get a dry sump is to impress the ladies

Absolutely!

They all know that a man with a dry sump has a big end that'll last longer.

MikeW · 08-24-2007, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by codymac

Hmmm... a bit of better searching turned this up - looks like Lotus already came up with something:

http://www.lotussportcadena.com/car_specification.asp

Note Laminova oil cooler circled in red and oil pump circled in yellow:

Yep, I knew about this. They did it because they had to. The Accusump and stock pan they offer is a bandaid. Surprised they wasted so much time with the
roof scoop and air to air intercooler. Maybe in a couple of years we'll get the Laminova.

Brent Bauman · 08-25-2007, 12:39 AM

That laminova looks to be in the identical spot as mine. Anyone have more pictures of the Cadena cars. Thanks.

choi0706 · 08-26-2007, 06:55 AM

http://www.komo-tec.com/index.php/cPath/109_110

codymac · 08-26-2007, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by choi0706

http://www.komo-tec.com/index.php/cPath/109_110

Comes with everything but the tank and lines but I can't understand how that sump would bolt up to a 2ZZ. That said, it makes me wonder if they actually have one working.

R'elise Me · 08-26-2007, 08:58 AM

Any idea how much weight is added by the dry sump system.

exigeme · 08-26-2007, 10:29 AM

Not exactly sure but best guess would be 10 to 15 lbs.

R'elise Me · 08-26-2007, 08:31 PM

that's not too bad, but sounds too light - 2 pumps, hoses, tank, more oil usually. On the other hand, I haven't heard of any issues with the accusump/lotus sport oil pan on the cup cars and they run on slicks - so I'm not sure why MikeW refers to the accusump as a bandaid solution. The HP boost would be a nice benefit though not to mention improved spousal relations :UO

08-24-2007, 08:18 AM	#1 (permalink)
codymac short angry bloke Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: where the east tapers out and the west begins Posts: 9,260 Images: 19	(2ZZ) dry sump? Is there one? From what I've seen, there's some good practical (cost-wise) solutions for the Hondas but not much available for the Toyotas outside of the 4A series engines (and those are pricey). Is there any interest in a dry sump for the 2ZZ? Are we all too weight conscious? __________________ torque (tôrk) n. - an excuse for the lack of momentum. - let's bring back CanAm & Group B! - have you hugged your Exige today? I'm currently working on my performance driving merit badge. There's always somebody faster, sometimes it's me.

08-24-2007, 11:41 AM	#3 (permalink)
fitfan Regurgitated User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: San Diego! Posts: 4,101	the main benifit is that (assuming the bell housing is not a limiting factor) you can drop the engine and lower the center of gravity in the car. so unless there is a way to do that.... not "too" much point of going dry sump. personally i am suprised the 2-11 doesn't do this?!?! __________________ Driving it around!

08-24-2007, 01:00 PM	#6 (permalink)
Dmbrown34 Grrrrrr Baby Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 1,617	Doesnt dry sump usually gain a few HP (i.e. an honest 10 HP to the tires)? Your crank wont have to slice through all that oil sitting there in a wet slump...same reason why people knife edge their cranks. When your in an all motor class...ITB, Dry Slump, coated internals and fuel management make the difference. __________________ 2005 Lotus Elise LSS 2003 Corvette 50th Anniversary Convertible

08-24-2007, 01:53 PM	#7 (permalink)
mark.r Makin' house calls . . . Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Leesburg, VA Posts: 2,610	You could look into the DMC oil pump kit from FF. __________________ DRS Tuned FF275 '06 Exige - Sold My racing prediction for '09 . . . the Japanese guy on the Italian bike and the Italian guy on the Japanese bike.

08-24-2007, 07:59 PM	#11 (permalink)
lucien Elise Booster Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Wilmington, NC Posts: 171	Dry Sump for lotus Elise 2ZZ GE engine Call Sandy Wilkins at Wilkins Motorsports, 919-218-1866 for information about a dry sump system for your Elise. Lucien Wilkins __________________ LUC

08-24-2007, 09:02 AM	#2 (permalink)
Boosted2.0 Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 764	If you search theres a guy in the UK that had a custom one made, but there are none comercially available

08-24-2007, 12:12 PM	#4 (permalink)
jamie Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 145	The one I have seen was on a Red MS car (race car) and its quite a lot of stuff to package eg big oil tank where the boot would be. When I inquired about it they said it really was race only the belt tenson needs adjusting etc. My understanding was that you would not want to lower the motor anyway as it would increase the angles that the CV joints have to work at leading to issues.

08-24-2007, 03:51 PM	#8 (permalink)
MikeW Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,372	The dry sump insures oil to the engine at all times. A wet sump won't do that under all possible conditions. It also pumps oil from the pan into a tank. If designed well, much or the aerated oil goes to the top of the tank, unaerated oil, at the tank bottom supplies the engine. Another benefit is better oil control for the rings. The slight crankcase vacuum causes a pressure differential for the oil rings. While oil is being scraped off the wall, the vacuum helps pull the oil through the holes or slots in the piston groove. You can run less radial tension on the oil rails and gain more power. External pumps can, of, course, be replaced, inspected, and its pressure adjusted without taking off the pan. And yes, you can also expect a power gain from not having all the oil flying around to be collided with by rotating and reciprocating parts.

08-24-2007, 07:18 PM	#10 (permalink)
Chococar #334 Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Santa Barbara, CA Posts: 1,547	I'm interested in a reasonably priced dry sump system.

08-24-2007, 08:10 PM	#12 (permalink)
Chris Mackey Registered User Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 2,587	The best reason to get a dry sump is to impress the ladies __________________ 2006 Elise, Ardent Red, Black Pack, LSS wheels, shocks and springs. ChuforiaGraffix.com SDD Lives On! SweetDaddyDelicious(at)hotmail(dot)com

08-25-2007, 12:39 AM	#15 (permalink)
Brent Bauman right seat driver Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Tustin Ranch, Ca Posts: 845	That laminova looks to be in the identical spot as mine. Anyone have more pictures of the Cadena cars. Thanks.

08-26-2007, 06:55 AM	#16 (permalink)
choi0706 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Houston/Austin Posts: 4,228	http://www.komo-tec.com/index.php/cPath/109_110 __________________ Jay-05' ST, HT, Touring Red Rally Ready

08-26-2007, 08:58 AM	#18 (permalink)
R'elise Me My other car's a mtn bike Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Venice CA Posts: 1,371	Any idea how much weight is added by the dry sump system. __________________ Sometimes you have to go in circles to move forward. 05 Elise NA 1750 lbs w/ full cage, fuel cell, aero, 173 whp - Colin would be proud. 2008 LR3 HSE 2005 Mini S Convertible If I'd thought that one day ALL my cars would be British, I'd have laughed at myself!

08-26-2007, 10:29 AM	#19 (permalink)
exigeme Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: Lake Tapps Posts: 141	Not exactly sure but best guess would be 10 to 15 lbs.

08-26-2007, 08:31 PM	#20 (permalink)
R'elise Me My other car's a mtn bike Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Venice CA Posts: 1,371	that's not too bad, but sounds too light - 2 pumps, hoses, tank, more oil usually. On the other hand, I haven't heard of any issues with the accusump/lotus sport oil pan on the cup cars and they run on slicks - so I'm not sure why MikeW refers to the accusump as a bandaid solution. The HP boost would be a nice benefit though not to mention improved spousal relations :UO __________________ Sometimes you have to go in circles to move forward. 05 Elise NA 1750 lbs w/ full cage, fuel cell, aero, 173 whp - Colin would be proud. 2008 LR3 HSE 2005 Mini S Convertible If I'd thought that one day ALL my cars would be British, I'd have laughed at myself!

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