(2ZZ) dry sump?

[sleepe]

m,n

[kmt63]

if there is enough interest in a high quality dry sump for the 2zz.a friend of mine that does dry sumps for bike powered d sports race cars would be very interested in doing a system for the 2zz.his company name is britsen racing development.if anyone would like to see some photos of his systems i can provide a link to the gsxr system that he has done.jesse has also worked at loynings race engines.so he also knows toyota motors as well.i would use my car to build the dry sump off of.as well as all the testing.we would need a blown motor to do it.if anyone has a dead motor laying around pm me.

kevin

[sleepe]

Ballpark cost? I have no idea on cost and complexity.
-Robert

[300hpMR2]

Was there ever an update on the MWR setup?

[carl]

i don't think the work/cost-reward ratio is there. carl

[kmt63]

the price for a well done dry sump should be around 2500.add in a few lines for another hundred of so.that is what forcedfed is selling there external pressure pump set up for and it is still wet sump.there isnt a lot of money to be made on a dry sump set up.its alot of cnc machine time.brd is looking to expand outside of sports racer systems.to widen the market a bit.piece of mind for me is the biggest benefit.a dry sump will run much cooler oil temp.very flat stable pressure.if you have ever looked at oil pressure data from a wet sump race car you would understand how much of a difference they make.

kevin

[Monkeywrench]

We'll have a dry sump but it was not ready to go our LSR car's engine for this season so the testing and prove-out will have to wait until fall. We don't release a critical system like that without testing it thoroughly ourselves.

[wdonovan]

Kudos to Monkey for adding a scraper. I've never seen a professional dry sump system without one. It's something made possible with a dry sump so to not include it is neglectful.

[Chococar]

"No estimates at this time" per Matt at Monkeywrench.

[kverges]

I'll make a counterpoint on dry sumps.

First, I think they really are a race car only piece, especially when the pump is external and belt driven.

Second, I am not sure a belt driven oil pump is any more intrinsically reliable in a street car that sees limited maintenance, unlike a race car that get regular service and inspection.

Third, I think dry sumps are more about increased power due to less windage loss and better ring sealing than oil pressure.

Fourth, a proper wet sump is very reliable. i have raced Formula Mazda with wings & slicks and over 2 G cornering force and the stock wet sump is reliable - oil pressure failures are unheard of. Same is true in all Miata derivatives I have raced, even in 25 hour endurance races. Oil pressure related failures simply do not happen.

Bottom line is that, in my opinion, a dry sump is really only for a race car where you need that last bit of pwer and performance becasue you have displacemtn or other limits on your engine. An accusump is plenty good enough for track and most race cars.

[kmt63]

yes these would be for folks that have a dedicated track car.or do a lot of track days.jesse has also done an internal scavenge pump.i dont know if it is possible on the 2zz.if so it would need zero adjustment.

[fpitas]

Doesn't mean much to this discussion, but a dry sump allows the motor to be placed a few inches lower in the chassis when a car is being designed. That can make a big difference to a racing car.

[xtn]

If a dry sump setup goes on the market, there will be a flood of used ones a year later as people buy them for a status symbol and then find they can't live with it.

xtn

[sleepe]

How many scavenge pumps do you intend on using?
The Porsche 997 uses 4 at each corner of the oil pan.
-Robert

[sleepe]

Originally Posted by xtn

If a dry sump setup goes on the market, there will be a flood of used ones a year later as people buy them for a status symbol and then find they can't live with it.

xtn

Why are they hard to "live" with? All porsches use them?

[xtn]

Next you'll be asking me how they would be considered a status symbol.

xtn

[kmt63]

i think on a 2zz 2 scavenge stages would be enough.i dont get the concern of people having to maintain a dry sump.once they are installed and oil pressure is up.thats it.check for leaks.check the oil level in the tank.now you have piece of mind that you will have much lower oil temps and very stable pressure.

[kverges]

No maintenance? You have got to be kidding me. I've had dry sump cars and the belt drive (dont get a stone caught in the cogs) and additional extra plumbing need to be looked after properly. The scavenge and pressure stages of a dry sump pump can also leak between one another.

How many dry sump systems have you had run 100,000 miles with no maintenance other than oil changes?

Don't get me wrong, I love race cars, race car technology, and racing, but race car maintenance levels are measured in hours. Even the mighty Porsche GT3 cup cars have recommended engine refresh intervals of 60 hours or so.

Race car parts are not necessarily "better," especially on a street car.

[kmt63]

Originally Posted by kverges

No maintenance? You have got to be kidding me. I've had dry sump cars and the belt drive (dont get a stone caught in the cogs) and additional extra plumbing need to be looked after properly. The scavenge and pressure stages of a dry sump pump can also leak between one another.

How many dry sump systems have you had run 100,000 miles with no maintenance other than oil changes?

Don't get me wrong, I love race cars, race car technology, and racing, but race car maintenance levels are measured in hours. Even the mighty Porsche GT3 cup cars have recommended engine refresh intervals of 60 hours or so.

Race car parts are not necessarily "better," especially on a street car.

3 plus years working on race cars with dry sumps.yes you have to look for leaks on the lines when you do a pre race.as stated above.this system would be driven internal so there is no belt if its possible.the sports racer systems are the very best quality and there has never been a leak between stages.also these systems where never meant for a pure street car.

[Chococar]

internally driven??