2zz engine/transaxle/supercharged k20 swap

[Simon S]

Originally Posted by ...m...

...that's only 3.3 pounds per hoursepower - at what point would you consider power undriveable on a two thousand pound car, track and street?..smoothly controllable throttle is often considerably underrated in these threads...

no such thing as over-powered

mines ~1600Lb's running weight, with ~370Bhp, and it's just fine (although tyres don't seem to last too long...)

[exigeme]

I hate to post back usless info but for the ones that want to know whats happening to my project the answer is nothing. After spending 26 years in the
medical industry I quit my job, bought two transportation companies and moved to Idaho in the end of 2008. My project is on indefinate hold and is in my shop back in Seattle with no hope of completion in sight. My focus is on
the success of the business, selling my house in Seattle and moving all of my stuff to Idaho. At this moment I dont have the time or the space to move my project and all of the tools to Idaho to complete.

[DWebb]

If your gonna blow a wad of cash why not squeeze in a Russell Savory 2.4l SC V8? Bet you won't be dissappointed with that ehhhh?


OOPS!

[Aedo]

Originally Posted by exigeme

I hate to post back usless info but for the ones that want to know whats happening to my project the answer is nothing. After spending 26 years in the
medical industry I quit my job, bought two transportation companies and moved to Idaho in the end of 2008. My project is on indefinate hold and is in my shop back in Seattle with no hope of completion in sight. My focus is on
the success of the business, selling my house in Seattle and moving all of my stuff to Idaho. At this moment I dont have the time or the space to move my project and all of the tools to Idaho to complete.

Thanks for the update

And all the best for the move

[shay2nak]

hope everything works out for you in Idaho so you can continue.

[Rei]

Sorry to hear about the run of issues. I'm sure once you have it done you will forget about the long road in getting there.

[Bleu Omdurman]

Best of luck with the companies, Dan!

Cheers,

Trevor

[streetthrowback]

keep us posted

[epikeddie]

Originally Posted by david hasselhoff

Dragon

Very cool 20B mods… I was always wondering if its possible to put one of these thing in a old esprit with the Citreon transaxle. On the N/A 20B motor, is the compression high enough? Wasn’t all 20B turboed? Any idea how much power coming out of the N/A motor? Nice work on the ITB fabrication…who makes the throttle bodies and fuel rail?
Although they are still lighter than recipicating motors, Ive heard rotories are relatively heavy for the small psychical size. Whats the weight on a N/A motor without the turbo plumming?

I’ve hear a few 4 rotor “Kazu” running in an a endurance race. Your description of it sounding like a F1 car is no cliché. They really do sound like that. At the same race it made the Ferrari 333SP sound pedestrian.

Thanks for posting

I just wanted to clarify a few things for all the non-rotary guys on this board. People speak of 3 rotors and 4 rotors and I don't think they have the right idea of how these engines work.

I have a RX8 with a 13B-MSP (Renesis) engine. It has a side port configuration unlike the 13B-REWs found in the 3rd Gen RX7s. The common 2 rotor engines you see in MOST rotary-engined cars are:

12A - Smaller diameter and thickness (comparable to bore and stroke on piston engines) than a 13b motor.

13B-RE - Found in earlier RX7s. They were offered in NA or turbo variants.

13B-REW - Found in the 3rd gen RX7s. They had revised mounting positions that made it more of a sports car than the previous iterations of the 13b. The diameter and thickness did not change.

13B-MSP - Found in the RX8. They change the port configuration, upped the compression to a healthy NA motor's setup, and raised the redline to 9000 rpm.


Now that you have the background of 2 rotor engines. I wanted to explain a bit more about the elusive 20B 3 rotor engines.

20B 3 rotor engines were originally only found in a Cosmo (Japan Market Only). It was a gem of an engine. It had twin turbos and was technically launched to compete in Japan's highly competitive Sports Luxury market. Hence, the only transmission to be bolted to them were 4 speed automatic gearboxes.

They make about 300 hp stock at 0.7 Bar Boost (10.29 psi). They have endless capabilities. They can be configured with dry sump solutions and can be made into a reliable NA engine with different porting techniques (see Speedsource campaigning their 3 rotors in the highly competitive Rolex GT Series). Even in NA forms with the right port work, you can achieve 400 whp with a 9000 rpm redline!

The more common way of modifying these 20B engines would be the famous single-turbo conversion. You have to remember that rotary engines generate a completely different exhaust pulse than standard piston engines. The exhaust gas velocity is GREAT accelerated in a rotary engine and hence....you see BIG snails on rotary cars. On a 20B engine, it's not uncommon to see something like a GT42K turbo. And yes....the rotary engines can spool those suckers INSTANTLY!

So why don't we see more of these? The cost.

Average 20B engines are about $3500 - $5000 depending on the source and condition. However, with all engines, you can't be sure until you open them up. Given that wiring the harness, placement of the engine (since they didn't come in anything other than a Cosmo), and management is a large issue. Most 20B owners go the extra mile and rebuild the motor while it is out.

On RX7s and RX8s, it's not uncommon to see a bill in the neighborhood of $30,000 for a complete swap including labor.

Oh and 4 rotor engines are all custom. They have custom eccentric shafts and the works. Some use 2 12A engines ala Scoot Sports Japan. Some use two 13bs. And if you're married to Mazda somehow, they did have the production one that went into the Lemans winning 787b - R26B.

That race motor made about 700 hp naturally aspirated.