Aftermarket ECU Opinions?

[Greg]

There has been some discussion about aftermarket ecus, including units like the electromotive tec3, motec, and others.

What are your opinions about which is the best, and why? My application would be a custom blown 2ZZ-GE, with rebuilt internals, probably using the whipple 1.2l.

[Illusive]

Originally Posted by Greg

There has been some discussion about aftermarket ecus, including units like the electromotive tec3, motec, and others.

What are your opinions about which is the best, and why? My application would be a custom blown 2ZZ-GE, with rebuilt internals, probably using the whipple 1.2l.

if your gonna go big bucks i'd reccomend the fcon pro.

Its propriatary software so you have to take it to hks to tune(which means big $$), but it is just as good as the aem ems standalones.

another option is the unichip, if you just want simple air/fuel tuning greedy's(spelled on purpose) emanage works like a charm on the celica.

[Robert Puertas]

Since you're in the Bay Area, you should be talking to Vic Sias: http://www.siastuning.com/
Tell him I sent you...

[charliex]

no contest, motec costs a lot but it can do just about anything.


although the EFI ECU in the elise is very very good, same as in the lambo, and lots of F1 cars.

[PERRIN]

I have quite a bit of experience with differnt ECUs. The obvious choice for the Elise is the APEX power FC. They make a plug and play ECU for the Celica, it should plug right in the elise. It is very simple and easy to use, and can control boost for those with Turbos in mind. Plus the price is really reasonable at under $1000. If you plan on going a wire in stand alone, there are quite a few wire in models. Haltech is one i really like, but the only one that can do auto tuning, which is a cool feature is the Motec. the other one that is on the horizon is the Hydra. The make a great plug and play ECU for the WRX and EVO. It has real knock correction, auto tuning, and boost control. Hope that helps!

[Illusive]

Originally Posted by PERRIN

I have quite a bit of experience with differnt ECUs. The obvious choice for the Elise is the APEX power FC. They make a plug and play ECU for the Celica, it should plug right in the elise. It is very simple and easy to use, and can control boost for those with Turbos in mind. Plus the price is really reasonable at under $1000. If you plan on going a wire in stand alone, there are quite a few wire in models. Haltech is one i really like, but the only one that can do auto tuning, which is a cool feature is the Motec. the other one that is on the horizon is the Hydra. The make a great plug and play ECU for the WRX and EVO. It has real knock correction, auto tuning, and boost control. Hope that helps!

we already thought of that when stan came over to the celica boards and took a bunch of pics of the ecu and wiring harness. Its different than the celica, and it wont be plug and play.

you'd need wiring diagrams from both cars a butload of time and lots of patience sodering wires to get it to work on the elise. Also there aren't currently any 2zz pfc users using the pfc to controll boost, all have been using aftermarket controllers.

[PERRIN]

Well that sucks! I was hoping i would buy a power FC when i get mine. The Hydra ECU may be the best chance. They make an ECU with their own propietery plug which then goes to a harness that goes to the OEM plugs. Since they make plug and play ECUs for a few cars, there may be a good chance they have some plugs already. Motec makes a few P&P ECUs but i don't belive they would have something. Who knows. Is there pics on this forum of the ECU comparo?

[charliex]

you're pretty much hosed if you want a plug and play, theres no such deal yet that i know of, since the ecu is only in a couple of different oems cars, and they have different looms

[Greg]

Thank you for the responses.

I'm not interested in anything that requires proprietary software. Money is not the issue, in so much as I wish to maintain control over the programming. Likewise, piggy back units seem to require too many cludges, and cutting/soldering/wiring is not a problem.

I guess at this point I'm leaning toward the Electromotive Tec3, wired in parallel w/ the factory ECU. Although for the life of me I can't figure out why people call it "parallel" since the factory ecu won't be firing the coils...

Seondary information is this: This is my first foray into forced induction and ecu programming. I want to do the majority of the tuning myself. The elise will not be the guinea pig for my learning curve, it will be my '92 miata, w/ a swapped 1.8l. I''m hoping to select an ecu that can transfer to an elise, when I've satisfied myself that I know what I'm doing. Lots of people recommend the Tec3 for the Miata BP/B6, and it seems there is also sufficient experience at least somewhere for the Tec3 in the 2ZZ-GE.

So I guess an important consderation for me is the availability of base-mappings for the 2ZZ and/or support from the ecu mfr. I understand the fact that I can pay a highly-regarded tuner to do this for me, and I would arrive at a better end-result, quicker. However, I want to endure this pain myself, the learning curve has to begin somewhere....

'Greg

[europa74]

am fitting a motec now. will track test in the next few weeks. i will post results if anybody is interested

[Bill B]

I have a Haltech on my RX-7. You can, with a dyno do all of the tuning yourself. All you need is a laptop. And the new H8 is out and it is sweet.

[Greg]

Originally Posted by Bill B

I have a Haltech on my RX-7. You can, with a dyno do all of the tuning yourself. All you need is a laptop. And the new H8 is out and it is sweet.

You mean the E8? I realize with a dyno you can do it all yourself. The whole point is that there should be a fair bit of experience w/ the 2ZZ and I should not have to start at ground zero. The point is to minimize expensive dyno time

Please post any experience you have w/ the motec. Are you replacing, or running in parallel?

'Greg

[Bill B]

Yea, it should be E8. I did all of the base maps on my rx7 in the garage and road. I only spent about 4 hours on the dyno trimming the maps. On a Toyota motor there is a wealth of info out there unlike the 13b rotary. Therefore you may not even spend that much time on the dyno. Any ECU you choose will require some time either at the track or dyno to trim the maps.

[shiv@vishnu]

Originally Posted by Greg

I guess at this point I'm leaning toward the Electromotive Tec3, wired in parallel w/ the factory ECU. Although for the life of me I can't figure out why people call it "parallel" since the factory ecu won't be firing the coils...

Seondary information is this: This is my first foray into forced induction and ecu programming. I want to do the majority of the tuning myself. The elise will not be the guinea pig for my learning curve, it will be my '92 miata, w/ a swapped 1.8l. I''m hoping to select an ecu that can transfer to an elise, when I've satisfied myself that I know what I'm doing. Lots of people recommend the Tec3 for the Miata BP/B6, and it seems there is also sufficient experience at least somewhere for the Tec3 in the 2ZZ-GE.

So I guess an important consderation for me is the availability of base-mappings for the 2ZZ and/or support from the ecu mfr. I understand the fact that I can pay a highly-regarded tuner to do this for me, and I would arrive at a better end-result, quicker. However, I want to endure this pain myself, the learning curve has to begin somewhere....

'Greg

I tuned and installed the TEC2 in SCC's turbocharged project matrix (same 2zz motor as the elise) a few years back. I should still have maps for it somewhere. I wired it in parallel (just as I did with Miatas) so the factory ECU still controlled the cam switchover. The only somewhat challenging part (other than turbocharging a 11.5:1 CR motor) was to find the EXACT rpm switchover point (and hysterisis) and dial in the VE table accordingly. Even being off by 20rpm, it would buck and hiccup just before or after the switchover.

I started referring to the install as parallel several years back since the stock ECU still controls all non-combustion related functions (idle control, fans, fuel pump, egr, gauges, obd-ii, etc,.) And these were the functions that took the most effort to wire up and calibrate. So it was really a cheat that allowed me to install a wire-in TEC2 in a Miata in 3 hours

Shiv

[TimMullen]

I have no information about after market ECU (and have no real desire to learn), but from reading the service manual, any after market ECU will have it's work cut out to replace the Lotus ECU. The ECU controls the engine, but in addition, it controls the cooling fans (it gets fancy running both fans at half speed in series up to a set point, then switching to full speed parallel), the water re-circulation pump (kicks on when the ignition is off and the temperature get to a certain point; also turns on the cooling fan when a another threshold it reached), the instruments via the CANbus system (speedometer, tach, and idiot lights), fuel pump (turns off with ignition, off after a time delay without the engine turning, etc.), all the emission control valves, and who knows what else in the car.

The Lotus ECU controls more than the simple engine functions I was expecting. I suspect that replacing it will not necessarily be a simple task...

[Beanie]

Hmm.. I didn't know all that (fans and instruments). Gee, I thought it was like the Toyota 2ZZ ECU and therefore you could use a Power FC. Too bad. Monkeywrench just wrung 195whp out of a 2ZZ with stock internals and just bolt-ons using a Power FC. Yes, that's Wheel HP. This was in an MR2 Spyder. http://www.spyderchat.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=21936

[rob13572468]

Originally Posted by TimMullen

I have no information about after market ECU (and have no real desire to learn), but from reading the service manual, any after market ECU will have it's work cut out to replace the Lotus ECU. The ECU controls the engine, but in addition, it controls the cooling fans (it gets fancy running both fans at half speed in series up to a set point, then switching to full speed parallel), the water re-circulation pump (kicks on when the ignition is off and the temperature get to a certain point; also turns on the cooling fan when a another threshold it reached), the instruments via the CANbus system (speedometer, tach, and idiot lights), fuel pump (turns off with ignition, off after a time delay without the engine turning, etc.), all the emission control valves, and who knows what else in the car.

The Lotus ECU controls more than the simple engine functions I was expecting. I suspect that replacing it will not necessarily be a simple task...

tim is correct, it would be ALOT of work to replace the stock ECU in the elise with an aftermarket unit. furthermore, its really patently unnecessary to do so....

The EFI ECU is an excellent unit, and is very capable of being remapped to achieve additional performance as well as having additional output capabilities to control things like a turbocharger or supercharger. in addition, it has enough memory that additional maps can be saved and then switched by the user at will (track mode for the weekend and then back to normal for daily driving at the press of a button).

If anything, the work should be going into reverse engineering the EFI unit so that the entire flash memory can be dumped and then not only can the maps be read but the entire O/S can be decompiled. once that is done, new functionality can be added in as modules and turned on/off as needed.

[europa74]

i don't think you can re program the stock ecu or use a piggyback system. yes, a stand alone is time consuming and expensive to tune but i guess it depends on what you need the car to do. i have found that if you mess with the engine too much, the ecu goes into a limp mode

[shiv@vishnu]

Originally Posted by charliex

you're pretty much hosed if you want a plug and play, theres no such deal yet that i know of, since the ecu is only in a couple of different oems cars, and they have different looms

Do the connectors look anything like this?



Shiv

[Greg]

Originally Posted by TimMullen

I have no information about after market ECU (and have no real desire to learn), but from reading the service manual, any after market ECU will have it's work cut out to replace the Lotus ECU. The ECU controls the engine, but in addition, it controls the cooling fans (it gets fancy running both fans at half speed in series up to a set point, then switching to full speed parallel), the water re-circulation pump (kicks on when the ignition is off and the temperature get to a certain point; also turns on the cooling fan when a another threshold it reached), the instruments via the CANbus system (speedometer, tach, and idiot lights), fuel pump (turns off with ignition, off after a time delay without the engine turning, etc.), all the emission control valves, and who knows what else in the car.

The Lotus ECU controls more than the simple engine functions I was expecting. I suspect that replacing it will not necessarily be a simple task...

Most cars have this problem, hence the "parallel" approach.
The parallel approach also has the advantage of being the most "temporary" installation, so you can remove it and pass smog every 2 years...

Nothing you mention is much of a barrier with a parallel installation, this has all been done before (just not by me).

The parallel ecu (even though technically it COULD be a replacement) is only used for ignition and boost control. This is how I understand it, anyway.

'Greg