Anybody Have Stage 2 Piper Cams installed?

[torqued]

All,

I'm new to this forum, but I have spent a fair amount of time on the NewCelica forum and am familiar with tuning the 2Z engine. Anyways, I'm looking to see if anyone has Stg 2 Piper cams installed and if they could share a dyno. I've tuned my car pretty well with the PFC, and am currently running about 195 HP. Before I take the plunge on the cams, I'd like to see what sort of torque curve folks are getting with the stg 2 cams. MWR has dyno posts, but I'd like to see more independent results.

[Westrock]

Ya about 15 posts down from yours

http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30118

There hasn't been alot of work done here on these cars as far as internal type stuff. I personally think the top end breathing of these engines is being limited by something other then the camshafts, so I am investigating that at the moment.

[torqued]

Originally Posted by Westrock

Ya about 15 posts down from yours

http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30118

There hasn't been alot of work done here on these cars as far as internal type stuff. I personally think the top end breathing of these engines is being limited by something other then the camshafts, so I am investigating that at the moment.

I see a dyno plot for stage 1 cams but no dyno plots on stage 2.

I tend to agree with you that there may be something beyond the cams limiting the highend. I know there is some flow bench work going on. I am thinking shorter intake runners may help.

[raygr]

I will have the Piper BP320 cams fitted in a couple of weeks on my Exige S. Dyno's to follow.

[torqued]

Originally Posted by raygr

I will have the Piper BP320 cams fitted in a couple of weeks on my Exige S. Dyno's to follow.

Looking forward to it.

[ChrisB]

Originally Posted by torqued

Looking forward to it.

Don't expect the results of race cam to produce similar results in a NA engine as in a FI engine. I expect that cam will work better in an NA engine than in a FI one in the high-cam RPM range.

[GTsRasta]

Originally Posted by ChrisB

Don't expect the results of race cam to produce similar results in a NA engine as in a FI engine. I expect that cam will work better in an NA engine than in a FI one in the high-cam RPM range.

But doesn't a supercharger emulate off of NA characteristics? It's nothing like a turbo and the backpressure caused by the turbo, so wouldn't the altered durations help?

[ChrisB]

Originally Posted by GTsRasta

But doesn't a supercharger emulate off of NA characteristics? It's nothing like a turbo and the backpressure caused by the turbo, so wouldn't the altered durations help?

Yes, the SC is not as affected as a turbo would be. However, added duration and overlap do not provide the full benefit that they would in an NA engine, which depends just on the momentum of the air to do the last bit of cylinder filling or scavenging. The overlap and, in particular, the late closing of the exhaust valve can bleed off some of the cylinder intake charge. The more intake pressure, the less effective the NA race cam characteristics would be in increasing HP. The stock high-speed cam is already a pretty aggressive grind.

I'm not saying the NA race cam is necessarily a bad thing. I just would not expect significant improvement in a FI situation (maybe a decrease in a turbo situation).

This particular cam does have increased lift, though, which should provide benefit in any case as long as it doesn't limit max RPM due to valve train weakness.

[raygr]

Piper told me they have had good results with the BP320 on the supercharged Exige. Instead guessing, I will have a dyno to compare with shortly.

[2-Y-CHROMOSOMES]

Originally Posted by raygr

Piper told me they have had good results with the BP320 on the supercharged Exige. Instead guessing, I will have a dyno to compare with shortly.

whos supercharged exige did they use?

[raygr]

I don't know. I assume one of their sources in the UK, where the car has been available for a while. (Piper is in the UK)

[2-Y-CHROMOSOMES]

Originally Posted by raygr

I don't know. I assume one of their sources in the UK, where the car has been available for a while. (Piper is in the UK)

ahhh


It would be nice to see a dyno with the stock ecu and then a fine tune with a standalone or piggyback.

[raygr]

Originally Posted by 2-Y-CHROMOSONES

ahhh


It would be nice to see a dyno with the stock ecu and then a fine tune with a standalone or piggyback.

CharlieX posted something like that for his tune:
http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40819

[SweetDaddyD]

Typically cams for FI run a little less overlap than they do in NA engines. No use blowing all that boost out an open exhaust valve.

[2-Y-CHROMOSOMES]

Originally Posted by raygr

CharlieX posted something like that for his tune:
http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40819

I am aware of charlies work but he has not done anything with the piper cams yet.
If you get the cams done and get charlies tune.....get a stock dyno and then an after with the cams optimized with charlies tune.

[Golfa]

does anyone have anything on the piper stage 2 cams?? Bueller?

[raygr]

Mine are scheduled for install this Thursday. I will dyno shortly after. I'm still looking for a tune (Charlie?)

Edit: I'm installing the Stage 3 cams (BP320).

[GTsRasta]

Very nice. So far, nobody has replicated the great gains posted by MWR for their stage 2 and stage 3 cams from our stock vehicles.

http://monkeywrenchracing.com/pipercams2zz.html

I wonder why...I guess they're just better at tuning or something. What would have happened if you went with the stage 3?

[LittleRocket]

You will need to tune the vvt-i for the new bump sticks otherwise you will get minimal gains at best. Stage 3s with port work and a stand alone coming soon.

[raygr]

Originally Posted by LittleRocket

You will need to tune the vvt-i for the new bump sticks otherwise you will get minimal gains at best. Stage 3s with port work and a stand alone coming soon.

I think you will get a decent gain w/o ECU tuning, but you won't get the max. I saw a very nice gain on my N/A Exige with the stage 1 cams on the lower speed cam. The high speed cam was not so good I think because of the cam specs. But getting both cams and ECU tune is best.