Anybody Have Stage 2 Piper Cams installed? - Page 2 - LotusTalk

2-Y-CHROMOSOMES · 07-24-2007, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raygr

I think you will get a decent gain w/o ECU tuning, but you won't get the max. I saw a very nice gain on my N/A Exige with the stage 1 cams on the lower speed cam. The high speed cam was not so good I think because of the cam specs. But getting both cams and ECU tune is best.

So when will we see an install & dynos?

raygr · 07-26-2007, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2-Y-CHROMOSOMES

So when will we see an install & dynos?

Sorry, I've been in Italy for the last 2 weeks. I will get some dynos posted in a week or so when I get back to the states.

cspak71 · 08-07-2007, 11:06 PM

Any updates?

andrewgotanelise · 08-08-2007, 12:54 AM

its in another thread it got ugly

raygr · 08-09-2007, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cspak71

Any updates?

Okay, got back and saw the dyno results. Bottom line: Cams made little or NO difference. That's right - I thought there was a mistake in the data file, but no. After all the BS of getting these BP320 cams and installing them, there was no appreciable difference. In fact, it lost a little torque at high speed about about 7500 rpm.

exigeme · 08-09-2007, 10:57 PM

Sorry to hear that Ray, that sucks. It's amazing how people can hype their
stuff then after all that time and effort you are worse off than before.

kortik · 08-09-2007, 11:22 PM

have you tried stage 3? or BP320 stage 3?

Golfa · 08-10-2007, 07:44 AM

wow...strange result

what do you attribute it to?

yacoub · 08-10-2007, 02:22 PM

Doesn't the stock "learning" ECU adjust itself to compensate for additional (or reduced) airflow and air-fuel mix ratios? Some have said because it does this, intake and exhaust mods will show basically no gain unless you flash the ECU to take advantage of the extra airflow instead of its normal behavior to retard itself and thus negate the gains. Wouldn't this then have the same effect with cams and other N/A mods for the most part?
So really, without a tunable ECU, there's not likely going to be large gains noticed. The stock ECU is going to adjust timing and air/fuel to stay in what it has been told is the correct range. Once you flash or replace or piggypack that ECU to take advantage of the mods you should see the proper gains.

2-Y-CHROMOSOMES · 08-10-2007, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yacoub

Doesn't the stock "learning" ECU adjust itself to compensate for additional (or reduced) airflow and air-fuel mix ratios? Some have said because it does this, intake and exhaust mods will show basically no gain unless you flash the ECU to take advantage of the extra airflow instead of its normal behavior to retard itself and thus negate the gains. Wouldn't this then have the same effect with cams and other N/A mods for the most part?
So really, without a tunable ECU, there's not likely going to be large gains noticed. The stock ECU is going to adjust timing and air/fuel to stay in what it has been told is the correct range. Once you flash or replace or piggypack that ECU to take advantage of the mods you should see the proper gains.

I thought he did. If he did not then the testing is not completed.
He needs a no learn and an xede or even an EFI. If does not then it is a waste of a test. He could have charlie tune it. Isn't R&D fun! and expensive !

Randy Chase · 08-10-2007, 03:58 PM

I was running cams in my car (not the 320) and we found we got pretty good gains in torque when tuned with the EFI.

Cams are now out as I am running in a class that does not allow aftermarket cams.

MikeW · 08-10-2007, 04:30 PM

Just downloaded the piper catalog. Looks like the only cam they have for the Toyota/lotus is the 270 grind. I know they formerly had at least one more, the 320 for sure. Seemed that they had 3 altogether. No demand or maybe the other grinds didn't work?

shay2nak · 08-10-2007, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raygr

Okay, got back and saw the dyno results. Bottom line: Cams made little or NO difference. That's right - I thought there was a mistake in the data file, but no. After all the BS of getting these BP320 cams and installing them, there was no appreciable difference. In fact, it lost a little torque at high speed about about 7500 rpm.

wow, that sucks. Maybe you need to tune them to see a gain?

raygr · 08-10-2007, 10:07 PM

Here is a dyno before & after cams. The blue run is just before the cams went in.

raygr · 08-10-2007, 10:10 PM

A Unichip was added and tuned. Here is the best Unichip tune vs before the tune.

The other mods on the car: FF street headers & cat, Daytona intake, Larini exhaust, 500 cc fuel injectors, Piper BP320 cams.

GTsRasta · 08-13-2007, 07:19 PM

There we go, that's not so bad. Get the EFI to tune VVT-i better and you'll be on your way to getting more power for sure!

2-Y-CHROMOSOMES · 08-13-2007, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTsRasta

There we go, that's not so bad. Get the EFI to tune VVT-i better and you'll be on your way to getting more power for sure!

I agree. axe the piggy back and get the efi and tweak away.

raygr · 08-13-2007, 10:08 PM

The reason I went with the Unichip is nobody would sell me anything else to directly tune the ECU. There is a lot of talk, but nobody is ready to sell it and/or tune it. I called Hydra and PES and others. The Unichip with install was about $1200. I think it will be fine, but we will see.

GTsRasta · 08-13-2007, 11:51 PM

To my surprise, the unichip did very well as a ECU solution to the Scion tC too. But unless I fully know the ins and outs of it's capabilities...I think a standalone would be better...or maybe you could give charlie a call.

If you're able to get the Hydra, that would even better (does anybody even have it???). Even though I hear it's a pain in the butt to tune vvt-i and use it's interface, it's one of the most capable standalone ECU's for the 2zz.

kortik · 08-14-2007, 05:14 AM

I have hydra for my 2zz will be tuning my n/a car on the 20th
at www.kitoautosport.com
I am expecting gains over 185whp
but hopefully It'll be around 185 mark
w/stock internals fornow.

08-07-2007, 11:06 PM	#23 (permalink)
cspak71 Mediocrity is a sin. Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Orange County Posts: 527 Images: 9	Any updates? __________________ '05 SY Elise

08-09-2007, 11:22 PM	#27 (permalink)
kortik Matrix XRS 2zz-ge Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 306	have you tried stage 3? or BP320 stage 3? __________________ 05 Toyota Matrix XRS Indigo Ink Pearl 2zz-ge Progress Rear Sway Bar TRD STB PBR Groundwires MagnaFlow Cat Back Exhaust Tein SS coilovers TWM Short Shifter Injen CAI C-one perfromance Fr. Rr. Bar C-one Underpanel

08-10-2007, 07:44 AM	#28 (permalink)
Golfa Bitten by Lotus bug Join Date: May 2007 Location: Rye, NH Posts: 67	wow...strange result what do you attribute it to? __________________ in the process of ridding myself of a 2004 STi and on the prowl for an Elise

08-10-2007, 03:58 PM	#31 (permalink)
Randy Chase Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: San Diego and where ever the roads lead Posts: 28,174 Images: 761	I was running cams in my car (not the 320) and we found we got pretty good gains in torque when tuned with the EFI. Cams are now out as I am running in a class that does not allow aftermarket cams. __________________ * V E R I T A S * A E Q U I T A S * No Longer the ADMIN here, please do not PM me asking for help. Thanks! 2006 Noble M400. Getrag tranny, Quaiffe LSD, Hinged clams. Duratec dual turbo V6. Hoosier 315-18 tires. 2350 pounds. Over 500hp. Track weapon. 2009 Rossion Q1. Monaco Orange. Wing. Black leather/Alcantara with orange stitching. The street car. In build: 2009 Toniq R (300whp? 1100 pounds?). Chrome Orange. Lexus GX-470 tow vehicle.

08-10-2007, 10:07 PM	#34 (permalink)
raygr I have 4-Wheel OCD Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Seattle Area Posts: 371	Dyno Here is a dyno before & after cams. The blue run is just before the cams went in. Attached Images __________________ Ray in Washington State - 06 Elise, 07 Exige S www.mentalmotoring.com

08-08-2007, 12:54 AM	#24 (permalink)
andrewgotanelise MMA Fighter Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Where the drugs are cheap and the girls are easy Posts: 1,208	its in another thread it got ugly

08-09-2007, 10:57 PM	#26 (permalink)
exigeme Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: Lake Tapps Posts: 141	Sorry to hear that Ray, that sucks. It's amazing how people can hype their stuff then after all that time and effort you are worse off than before.

08-10-2007, 02:22 PM	#29 (permalink)
yacoub Registered User Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 144	Doesn't the stock "learning" ECU adjust itself to compensate for additional (or reduced) airflow and air-fuel mix ratios? Some have said because it does this, intake and exhaust mods will show basically no gain unless you flash the ECU to take advantage of the extra airflow instead of its normal behavior to retard itself and thus negate the gains. Wouldn't this then have the same effect with cams and other N/A mods for the most part? So really, without a tunable ECU, there's not likely going to be large gains noticed. The stock ECU is going to adjust timing and air/fuel to stay in what it has been told is the correct range. Once you flash or replace or piggypack that ECU to take advantage of the mods you should see the proper gains.

08-10-2007, 04:30 PM	#32 (permalink)
MikeW Registered User Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,372	Just downloaded the piper catalog. Looks like the only cam they have for the Toyota/lotus is the 270 grind. I know they formerly had at least one more, the 320 for sure. Seemed that they had 3 altogether. No demand or maybe the other grinds didn't work?

08-10-2007, 10:10 PM	#35 (permalink)
raygr I have 4-Wheel OCD Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Seattle Area Posts: 371	More Dyno A Unichip was added and tuned. Here is the best Unichip tune vs before the tune. The other mods on the car: FF street headers & cat, Daytona intake, Larini exhaust, 500 cc fuel injectors, Piper BP320 cams. Attached Images __________________ Ray in Washington State - 06 Elise, 07 Exige S www.mentalmotoring.com

08-13-2007, 10:08 PM	#38 (permalink)
raygr I have 4-Wheel OCD Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Seattle Area Posts: 371	The reason I went with the Unichip is nobody would sell me anything else to directly tune the ECU. There is a lot of talk, but nobody is ready to sell it and/or tune it. I called Hydra and PES and others. The Unichip with install was about $1200. I think it will be fine, but we will see. __________________ Ray in Washington State - 06 Elise, 07 Exige S www.mentalmotoring.com

08-14-2007, 05:14 AM	#40 (permalink)
kortik Matrix XRS 2zz-ge Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 306	I have hydra for my 2zz will be tuning my n/a car on the 20th at www.kitoautosport.com I am expecting gains over 185whp but hopefully It'll be around 185 mark w/stock internals fornow. __________________ 05 Toyota Matrix XRS Indigo Ink Pearl 2zz-ge Progress Rear Sway Bar TRD STB PBR Groundwires MagnaFlow Cat Back Exhaust Tein SS coilovers TWM Short Shifter Injen CAI C-one perfromance Fr. Rr. Bar C-one Underpanel

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