Anyone stuffed a 2.5l Boxer (STi motor) in a Lotus?

[robains]

Random thoughts, wondering if anyone attempted this?

I loved this little motor in my old 04 STi, didn't have any oiling problems, easy to get 500 HP out of it, silky smooth, very reliable, low center of gravity.

Can't seem to find out the engine weight in stock form.

Rob

[swaq]

I don't think it would fit in an Elise/Exige, it's a pretty wide motor.

[Tristar Racing]

I think the 4G63 out of an Evo would be a better swap space wise, but either way I think both are too much motor for the Elise. The Elise is about light weight, not 500hp.

[jah29]

Not the swap I'd want to do, but crazy ideas are fun.

These guys put Subaru engines in their mid-engine porsche 356 replicas, so they'd know weight, dimensions, and fitment difficulties:

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[robains]

Originally Posted by Tristar Racing

I think the 4G63 out of an Evo would be a better swap space wise, but either way I think both are too much motor for the Elise. The Elise is about light weight, not 500hp.

Can you tell me the weight difference between the 2ZZ and STi motor - I've not been able to find any info on weight for Boxer motor? The EVO motor is a high CG motor, was interested in a low CG flat 4 layout.

Anyone have the specific dimensions?

Thanks, Rob.

[robains]

Originally Posted by jah29

Not the swap I'd want to do, but crazy ideas are fun.

These guys put Subaru engines in their mid-engine porsche 356 replicas, so they'd know weight, dimensions, and fitment difficulties:

SPECIALTY AUTO-SPORTS,Porsche Speedster,Porsche Replica,Porsche Replicas,Porsche Speedster Replica,Porsche 356 replica, Speedster replica,Porsche Speedster replicas, 356 Speedster replica,VW Speedster,Speedster,XK120 Jaguar,Speedster,356A replicas,Po

Email sent, lets see if they get back to me. Yeah, crazy idea, but I'm on my 3rd 2ZZ and planning the build on my 4th 2ZZ. Crazy is relative

[jah29]

Originally Posted by robains

Email sent, lets see if they get back to me. Yeah, crazy idea, but I'm on my 3rd 2ZZ and planning the build on my 4th 2ZZ. Crazy is relative

I've elected not to do anything what-so-ever to my 2zz, and save the money for when it goes boom.

you think this engine will fit? it looks too long on either side of the axle...

[robains]

No, it would require some chassis modification -- question is, how much modification. That's not the STi motor but good enough for visual -- exhaust and turbo and IC can be reworked -- all those heat shields make it look bigger.

But I think it's doable -- I think valve cover to valve cover is key measurement -- I "think" from axle to front is ok, but need measurements.

Thinking salvaged Elise (pending how bad chassis is damaged) -- this would be a LONG LONG term project car (probably a 2-3 year project). I gotta learn how to weld aluminum first - dooh! (details).

10K rpm motors built for 30 PSI can put out about 650 HP. $13K for a new built motor. And lots of parts sources.

1000 HP hmmmm...I'm dubious

Rob.

[aschen]

I don't think it is a good choice for the engine compartment even for the most ambitious of swappers. There are too many other chices that make much more sence. The 2.5l subaru motors are great and torquey little guys but it would be much easier to fit some other 2 and a half liter FI motor with similar results.

If you really want a subaru motor in a light mid engine chasis, they swap int 914s with relative ease...

[25psi_Elise_Killer]

Cosworth built Scubbie engine long block for reference



High Performance Long Block Assembly - Subaru Engine Assemblies - Cosworth USA

[robains]

Not finding big HP numbers for the 914.

This type of project would NOT be easy (admit almost crazy) - rear cross member adjustments would be fine, but side to side and axle to firewall room I think is the go or no-go on a project like this. Oh, and if the motor is just too heavy -- but some of the motor weight (whatever that is) can be offset with lack of AC, smog, etc. etc.

Race/Track only purpose, not street obviously (certainly not in CA anyway).

Rob.

P.S. and it doesn't need to make sense either but it does need to retain some sense of cost.

[25psi_Elise_Killer]

How about a Suzuki Hayabusa engine??


The replacement for displacement = 11,000 RPM

[robains]

Interesting piston design.

[robains]

Originally Posted by 25psi_Elise_Killer

How about a Suzuki Hayabusa engine??


The replacement for displacement = 11,000 RPM

That's only a 1000 rpm more than a built scooby motor. Dont' think a Busa could put out 650-1000 HP, but it would fit and be light weight.

[jah29]

this will be my new engine($28,000) when that nigerian guy gets back to me with my share of the kingdom:

HOME PAGE...

[Noen]

This would be a nightmare to attempt. The boxer is a longitudinal engine, mated to a longitudinal transmission.

Unless you lengthen the car to move the engine forward, it's not really possible. You probably only need ~6 inches of added room, but that's not a trivial task. Just because of this, I wouldn't even attempt it. The chassis is going to be incredibly difficult to safely extend because you're gonna have to change the geometry. Not to mention you'll then need a custom rear clam on top.

If you get past that....

Once you get room in there, the rest is going to be pretty easy. You'll need to build new motor mounts and a carriage assembly, and work out the drive shafts (you may actually be able to use the Subi shafts). For the motor mounts and carriage, you also need to keep in mind the difference in the torque direction of the engine.

I transplanted a EJ25 into a 1976 BMW 2002. By far the hardest part was engineering the engine bay. Going from a chassis meant for an inline 4, to a boxer 4 presented all kinds of problems. We got it to work though, and now that it's been done once, it would literally be a piece of cake to do it again.

[aschen]

If I was going to go to the trouble to put an EJ257 In there I would probably just go for an LS7 swap. I am semi serious.

I think renegade Hybrids have the EJ swaps for the 914. Motor mounts and kit parts are available IIRC

[robains]

Originally Posted by Noen

This would be a nightmare to attempt. The boxer is a longitudinal engine, mated to a longitudinal transmission.

Unless you lengthen the car to move the engine forward, it's not really possible. You probably only need ~6 inches of added room, but that's not a trivial task. Just because of this, I wouldn't even attempt it. The chassis is going to be incredibly difficult to safely extend because you're gonna have to change the geometry. Not to mention you'll then need a custom rear clam on top.

If you get past that....

Once you get room in there, the rest is going to be pretty easy. You'll need to build new motor mounts and a carriage assembly, and work out the drive shafts (you may actually be able to use the Subi shafts). For the motor mounts and carriage, you also need to keep in mind the difference in the torque direction of the engine.

I transplanted a EJ25 into a 1976 BMW 2002. By far the hardest part was engineering the engine bay. Going from a chassis meant for an inline 4, to a boxer 4 presented all kinds of problems. We got it to work though, and now that it's been done once, it would literally be a piece of cake to do it again.

Do you have the dimensions of motor? Could I get them please?

Probably my worse nightmare -- but I need a good long term project and it would NOT be for my existing Exige S -- like I said, most likely a well used and/or salvaged Lotus Elise -- strip the car down and do a rough CAD layout.

The more difficult it would be to produce, the more likely it'll truely be unique. But it's gotta remain sane on the cost front - labor will be me of course.

Rob

[charliex]

honda K series is a good choice, and its already been done a bunch of times, the audi motor too.

iv'e heard of a few failures on the chain tension on the m96 but you never know if you're just seeing the anomalys.

[Noen]

Originally Posted by robains

Do you have the dimensions of motor? Could I get them please?

Probably my worse nightmare -- but I need a good long term project and it would NOT be for my existing Exige S -- like I said most like a well used and/or salvaged Lotus Elise -- strip the car down and do a rough CAD layout.

The more difficult it would be to produce, the more likely it'll truely be unique. But it's gotta remain sane on the cost front - labor will be me of course.

Rob

I don't have dimensions, but having dealt with one for two years of a build, I can tell you there's no chance in hell of it fitting in an unmodified Lotus engine bay. The whole transaxle will have to be moved forward, and everything that is currently hung off the firewall will have to be relocated to the rear. It'll also sit lower in the engine bay.