Auto Europe Hass Turbo Install

[PWR2W8]

Auto Europe received the turbo kit from Jay this week. My car was loaded up in the trailer last night.

Installation will begin Monday and should be completed within 1 weeks time. I'll post pictures as the installation progresses.

[saudio]

Please do! I'm very interested in the progression and final results of an out-of-house install of that system.

This thread will inevitably end up talking about potato farming or something, but please ignore all the hijackers and keep us informed.

Thanks

Mike

[PWR2W8]

Tomorrow I'll shoot some pictures of the progress. The rear clam is off and parts are lying on a table in an organized manner. Some of the pieces have been fitted but not tightened to verify fit.

Initial thoughts are positive. I have absolutely no idea on how anyone without mechanical and powertrain experience could install this kit. There are no directions and a lot of parts to be installed. The real issue is the E-manage and how to tap into the current ECU. Again, there's no way a novice should be attempting this without help. The Morosso oil pan will be installed as well. I'm adding an oil temperature and oil pressure gauge which will be mounted with the "Trickster" bracket. The VDO boost gauge is going into the air vent closest to the steering wheel (RH side). I don't like the mounting of the boost gauge on top of the vents, it interferes with line of sight which is a problem on or off the track IMHO.

Pictures tomorrow!

[MikeW]

Can't believe no instructions. That's a drawback.

[taburton]

Originally Posted by PWR2W8

Auto Europe received the turbo kit from Jay this week. My car was loaded up in the trailer last night.

Installation will begin Monday and should be completed within 1 weeks time. I'll post pictures as the installation progresses.

PWR2W8 -
I am curious as to the quote for hours and payment for the install. I will have my package from Jay today and am going to talk to two shops here in Phoenix about the install. I know Jay was quoting $1000 and 12 hours by a shop that knows what they are doing. I know that is a rough estimate and would like to hear what others are finding. You can PM me if you like.

Thanks,

[Grip Factory]

Originally Posted by MikeW

Can't believe no instructions. That's a drawback.

I used to be in the business of fabbricating turbo kits. Most kits do not include instructions. But its not the most difficult thing out there. I am assuming they include wiring and loading instructions for the emanage.

IMO if you need instructions to install a turbo, that means your not very proficient with it. If your not proficient with it you have no business installing one on your own

[MikeW]

I'm not in the business of installing turbos but have built transmissions, rear ends ,carbs, engines, fabricated Alcon brake setups, done carbon and kevlar tig, mig, own a Bridgeport mill and have done just about everything else. I also do my own front/rear alighnments and chassis setup. I do not consider myself an expert in every field and can admit that I might be able to pick up some valuable information from instructions. The turbo setup is not cheap and the Lotus definitely is not. There is potential to ruin things if not done properly. Getting a box of loose parts is not my idea of how things should be. The consumer should know what parts are supposed to be included for one thing. Often something gets left out. There should be some recommendations as far as care and maintenance and warnings to avoid problems. Manufacturers like to disclaim any warranty if anything wasn't done properly. There apparently is no authorized installation facility for this kit so these kits are to be sold to the general public. People don't like not having instructions, which I consider to be a bare essential. Manufacturers always seem to expect you to read the instructions before asking for support. The least they can do is furnish them. If the kit is so high tech that they feel instructions to help a consumer isn't enough, they should be labeled "to be installed by trained personnel only".

[MikeW]

One achieves profiency by doing things, it's not automatic. I do not consider myself an expert in every field but might be considered capable in several. I can admit that I might be able to pick up some valuable information from instructions. The turbo setup is not cheap and the Lotus definitely is not. There is potential to ruin things if not done properly. Getting a box of loose parts is not my idea of how things should be. The consumer should know what parts are supposed to be included for one thing. Often something gets left out. There should be some recommendations as far as care and maintenance and warnings to avoid problems. Manufacturers like to disclaim any warranty if anything wasn't done properly. There apparently is no authorized installation facility for these kits so they are to be sold to the general public. People don't like not having instructions, which I consider to be a bare essential. Manufacturers always seem to expect you to read the instructions before asking for support. The least they can do is furnish them. If the kit is so high tech that they feel instructions to help a consumer isn't enough, they should be labeled "to be installed by trained personnel only".

[Lotus F1]

Originally Posted by Grip Factory

I used to be in the business of fabbricating turbo kits. Most kits do not include instructions. But its not the most difficult thing out there. I am assuming they include wiring and loading instructions for the emanage.

IMO if you need instructions to install a turbo, that means your not very proficient with it. If your not proficient with it you have no business installing one on your own

I disagree. I did my own first turbo install on my Miata directly from a good set of instructions with pics. Previous to that I could only do a basic tune up on a car. You need the proper tools, patients and proper review of what you are going to be...thats it

From that knowledge of doing the install I was able to better maintain and understand what my car was communicating me. This knowledge saved my engine a few times because I immediately knew of problems, what they were, and how to fix it.

[MikeW]

Please excuse the duplicate post.

[PWR2W8]

Sorry, I made a promise to Auto Europe that I would not discuss the cost.


I'll load up pictures tonight. Things are starting to take shape and fitting in place as designed. The CAT will get cut and welded tomorrow. So far things look good. Auto Europe is modifying some brackets to secure things bottle i.e, the coolant bottle. I'll post more later.

Originally Posted by taburton

PWR2W8 -
I am curious as to the quote for hours and payment for the install. I will have my package from Jay today and am going to talk to two shops here in Phoenix about the install. I know Jay was quoting $1000 and 12 hours by a shop that knows what they are doing. I know that is a rough estimate and would like to hear what others are finding. You can PM me if you like.

Thanks,

[JnC]

Originally Posted by 1FASTMX5

I disagree. I did my own first turbo install on my Miata directly from a good set of instructions with pics. Previous to that I could only do a basic tune up on a car. You need the proper tools, patients and proper review of what you are going to be...thats it

From that knowledge of doing the install I was able to better maintain and understand what my car was communicating me. This knowledge saved my engine a few times because I immediately knew of problems, what they were, and how to fix it.

I had the same experience. And completely agree w/ 1FASTMX5.

I'm really surprised by the omission though.

If Hass can't finish the tune upon cars that they have in their shop for months*, does it seem likely that a third party can do it in a week without any instructions?

Edit:* I realize that Hass has agreed to put 500 miles on a car before releasing it, and CT winters haven't been accomodating in this regard. I apologize if that sounded harsh.

[taburton]

Seriously... you two are taking both ends of the spectrum on this issue.
(MikeW & GripFactory)

Please review the thread labeled... 'Hass ProTurbo Kit Release Info' before ranting/hijacking this thread.

Post #1
http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/show...32&postcount=1

Originally Posted by JayHass

Major parts list and description:

• Garrett GT28RS Dual BB Turbo. The latest and greatest from Garrett. There is enough headroom for 325whp in this turbo but it performs just fine at 240whp as well. We also port the wastegate hole out to approx 37mm from the standard 28mm.
  
  304 Stainless Steel Thick Walled (1/8”) Turbo Manifold with 1/2” flanges that will not warp.
  
  Smooth merge downpipe that ties into the factory Catalytic converter so any aftermarket exhaust can be used or the factory exhaust as well. The smooth merge of the wastegate eliminates any chances of boost creep.
  
  Ceramic thermal barrier coatings on manifold, downpipe, and turbine housing for durability and heat control.
  
  630cc factory style pencil injectors
  
  Stainless steel braided turbo coolant feed/return line and fittings with AN style ends.
  
  Stainless steel braided turbo oil feed/return line and fittings
  
  Mandrel bent urethane coated intercooler pipes.
  
  Blackstone high density air to air intercooler that measures 6.25"x18"x3.5" (Not including end tanks) The unit works as a large heat sink so it can absorb a fair amount of heat giving the car a "stored" cold air charge until vehicle speed resumes. The intercooler core when tested at an air inlet temp of 250*F at 14.7 psi, with a cooling air temp of 75* lowered the discharge temperature from the 250* to 124*F . Very very efficient.
  
  Dual high velocity fans for the IC and large 30 amp relay.
  
  4ply nomex couplers and reducers that will not blow out or fail over time.
  
  Stainless steel T-Bolt clamps for all IC pipe couplers.
  
  Porsche 996 turbo recirc valve that will not blow out or fail like many other similar units. This also opens the door for a myriad of upgrades if you so choose.
  
  K&N air filter
  
  Nylon braided vacuum line and brass tee fittings that will not expand or fail over time.
  
  30psi VDO white faced boost gauge that matches the factory units very close.
  
  Pre-programmed Greddy E-Manage Ultimate.
  
  NGK spark plugs – one range colder.
  
  K&N oil filter
  
  Aquamist 1S Water Injection System. The same system used on half million dollar rally cars and adds a lot of safety margin when boosting a high compression engine. (www.aquamist.co.uk)
  
  Various fasteners, clips and such that show attention to detail such as included Belleville locking washers for all exhaust components.

Then Post #8....
http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/show...71&postcount=8

Originally Posted by JayHass

It certainly is something DIY guy can do - I have not had the resources to write up DIY level instructions at this time, but we do offer one on one support to help you get it up and running. There is what can be considered a quick reference guide for the pro installer who pretty much already knows what to do, and just needs some guidance on the specifics.

It's not rocket science, this I can assure you and any competent mechanic would not have a problem at all. It's more time consuming than anything.

Jay has been very upfront about everything and spent much time with answering questions and giving his thoughts on things related to the turbo package. I have bounced his thoughts and comments off some close friends that are very knowledgable about turbos and we cannot fault any of his statements. I have trusted my money (and my lotus) with his product, although that was a decision that I made on my own via research. Which consisted of reading and re-reading his posts and talking to him via phone and email.


Sorry, but you both come across as bashing his product without even reading the information on this forum. Before I spend my money I do my research until my comfort level is secure. I knew that this is no paint-by-numbers install and that it is not rocket science. Because, I read Jay's information on this forum.

{steps down off soapbox}
{wanders in from the potato farm}
{sorry long day at work}

[JWC]

+1 on 1FASTMX5 and JnC posts! (Not bashing Hass, but reacting to Grip Factory's statement).

[JnC]

Originally Posted by taburton

Sorry, but you both come across as bashing his product without even reading the information on this forum.

Sorry, but I'm not bashing the product. I actually think it's currently the best engineered kit out there. Just asking straightforward questions.

Hass has a lot on his plate right now. Fielding phone support from a bunch of product in the field isn't going to lighten it.

[taburton]

Originally Posted by JnC

Sorry, but I'm not bashing the product. I actually think it's currently the best engineered kit out there. Just asking straightforward questions.

Hass has a lot on his plate right now. Fielding phone support from a bunch of product in the field isn't going to lighten it.

Understand and my comments were to MikeW and Grip Factory talking about lack of documentation and/or no need for it. Long day and took me awhile to finsh the reply so some other replies got in before I posted.

[Grip Factory]

I am not bashing Hass's product...did I say I was??
I actually am pretty fond of it.

Obviously people will disagree with me on this. As stated before I worked on and manufactured turbo systems. I would spend hours on the phone with customers that had kits and instructions. As I was guiding them through the intsall I said to myself wow this guy shouldnt be doing this. Nowadays people think anything can be assembled with instructions. To an extent I agree, but if your gonna jeapordize your car then you have no business doing it.

There are exceptions to the rule. But you better have a firm understanding of how a turbo charger system works. And read a few books on it. If your going into this blind with some instructions...good luck on not blowing up your car. And this is not directed towards any turbo manufacturers.
I have the utmost respect for them because...its the hardest job in teh world

[PWR2W8]

So here are the pictures of what has been accomplished so far. Keep in mind that they are only trying the fit of the product right now, nothing is bolted and tightened at this point. The car will have everything bolted on by Thursday of this week including the CAT and Muffler.

[peck555]

So...what exhaust are you going to use with the turbo?

[JnC]

Nice manifold. Interesting location for the air filter, though for turbos I guess it's much more forgiving.

When the car is buttoned back together, can you normally access your damper reservoirs?