Auto Europe Hass Turbo Install

[PWR2W8]

The short shift is better compared to the new shifter. I think you would all like what they came up with. Ask Don Reed about pricing.

Oh and by the way, you need a heat shield on your rear clam if you install a turbo.

[Bruce]

Originally Posted by PWR2W8

The short shift is better compared to the new shifter. I think you would all like what they came up with. Ask Don Reed about pricing.

Tell us what it is. Why the mystery. I don't care about pricing.

[avantephoto]

Originally Posted by PWR2W8

Looks like the issues we were having with tuning had everything to do with the E-manage internal pin connections. We had to change the arrangement per Jay's instructions and viola, holy crap my car runs!!

2. The kit. Overall I think Jay did a great job with this kit. The tuning issues I was having had everything to do with the internal guts of the E-manage and nothing to do with Jays other work. I don't know if this is something Jay forgot to do when he sent us the kit or not but it fixed the problem.

looks like i'm getting to this too late and will have to wait till monday to call them about it. but do you happen to have additional information on what/how it needed to be set? would like to compare it to mine and see if we can't get that checked before it gets put in.

[NMRJock]

I had it done as well. They cut down the stock shifter and bend it toward the driver a bit. I'm very happy with it.
Don did accidentally overcharge me for it, but I'll forgive him since he trailered my car from Detroit to Gingerman so I could do a track day.

[kestrel74]

Originally Posted by Bruce

Tell us what it is. Why the mystery. I don't care about pricing.

well, they were charging $ 170. but that was in conjuntion with the shifter recall because they were installing another shifter anyway.... I have no idea what they would charge outright..

[PWR2W8]

Originally Posted by avantephoto

looks like i'm getting to this too late and will have to wait till monday to call them about it. but do you happen to have additional information on what/how it needed to be set? would like to compare it to mine and see if we can't get that checked before it gets put in.

I don't know exactly. It had something to do with a pin connection. IIRC, the 1-2 connection should have been 2-3. Again, I don't know the correct way to explain this to you. Best bet is to call Jay at Hass or Don Reed at Auto Europe on Monday. Good Luck!

[NMRJock]

Originally Posted by kestrel74

well, they were charging $ 170. but that was in conjuntion with the shifter recall because they were installing another shifter anyway.... I have no idea what they would charge outright..

Ha! He quoted me $150, then the bill came (I paid the total by phone and didn't see it until the track) and it was $175. Three different numbers.

He said he'd make it up to me on the shortened, lower E-brake handle.

[PWR2W8]

Isn't it better to call Auto Europe then to speculate on the cost? Every job will be different depending on several factors:

1. Is it a shifter recall?

2. Are you having your center console pulled out to be painted?

3. Etc....

I guess what I'm saying is, if your already having stuff done to your car there might be a different price for the short shifter install. I just think price is something that should be handled with them and not publicly.

[Stan]

Originally Posted by MyElise

So it's a cut down shifter? That doesn't necessarily make the shift distance much shorter or more precise. The issues are a combination of slop and throw.Pics?

I often hold the boot/lever under the knob. Installing my hand there is pretty easy!

[kestrel74]

Originally Posted by PWR2W8

Isn't it better to call Auto Europe then to speculate on the cost? .

Exactly ! I don't even know if they plan on selling them outright.....they may only be for AE customers best to call Don Reed at 248-645-6300 ext 11

[PWR2W8]

It's done!

Thanks to Scottyb for the heads up on the firmware issue. I drove the car today and it is a screamer. I have the boost set at 5.5 psi for low and 7 psi for high. The car is so much fun at the lower boost that I hardly used the higher boost.

The car is being detailed so I'll take photos and upload them to Elise Talk later this week.

[scottyb]

Originally Posted by PWR2W8

It's done!

Thanks to Scottyb for the heads up on the firmware issue. I drove the car today and it is a screamer. I have the boost set at 5.5 psi for low and 7 psi for high. The car is so much fun at the lower boost that I hardly used the higher boost.

The car is being detailed so I'll take photos and upload them to Elise Talk later this week.

I'm glad my Mapping worked for you. I'm still tweaking it and will provide it for anyone who wants. Also, I'm working on correcting the speedometer built in error with my next tune. I should know by Wed evening if it works. I'm just waiting for Stan to drive her while I ride shot gun tweaking the tune here and there.

[P90Puma]

Updates?

[PWR2W8]

You can PM me if you wish. I'd rather not post my response on ET.

[PWR2W8]

We have been struggling to get the car to run properly so we invited Jay out to Detroit to take a look at the install Auto Europe performed on my car.

Jay was in town yesterday and spent the whole day with me and the guys at Auto Europe. After hooking up a new exhaust (my choice) I went with the 2bular straight pipe and Ultra 6" single tip above diffuser, we took the car out for a spin. Jay began tuning the car and within no time discovered the problem.....my e-manage was all jacked up. For what ever reason my E-manage would not read part or parts of the maps we would program into it. It would be as if the maps did not exist or the E-manage would simply ignore the map . Case in point, when I would go in boost the map was set to add more fuel. The E-manage would ignore this and continue on its marry way. The car of course would run lean in this condition.

Jay asked if we had a local shop that would have the E-manage Ultimate so we could swap them out and verify our assumption. Luckily we are in the motor capital of the world and found a new E-manage about :30 minutes from Auto Europe. We got the new E-manage and opened her up to make the dip switch change and couldn't believe our eyes. The circuit board is completely different! This is a newer unit since the serial number was much higher then the one that died on me. This is the same E-manage Ultimate, same box, same everything, except for what's in the box. Greddy has made a change.

We programmed the new E-manage and took the car for a spin. Bingo, our assumption was correct. The car is tuned and runs like a champ

When I look back on how my car was running it makes sense. It would have good days and bad days. Then all of a sudden it ran like total crap. My theory is that the electronics are jacked up in the E-manage and slowly become defective until one day it will just puke. The scary thing is that the electronics in the unit we have now are entirely different. Whats up with that??

Many thanks go out to Jay. He wanted to get the car running and we really needed his hands on the vehicle to help us out. He, like I were extremely frustrated and couldn't understand what the problem was. It felt like we were always chasing a ghost. The car is now running strong and pulls hard even though it is 90 degrees here today. I can't wait for those cooler days and nights

A couple of people have PM'd me in the past and wanted to know if they should get a Hass turbo or not. I can say with confidence today, do it. Just make sure you don't get an old E-manage! I'll throw some pictures of the new exhaust and install up later today.

Thanks Jay!

[chotto]

That's great to hear. Are you going to be out at Waterford on Wednesday to let it stretch its legs?

[scottyb]

Originally Posted by PWR2W8

...A couple of people have PM'd me in the past and wanted to know if they should get a Hass turbo or not. I can say with confidence today, do it. Just make sure you don't get an old E-manage! I'll throw some pictures of the new exhaust and install up later today...

I tend to strongly disagree. I will discuss this in the future, but as long as there is no ECU solution a piggy back set up without numerous fail safe backups will ultimately fail. See how your car runs in 2 weeks and you will understand.

[JayHass]

Hello Brad, thank you for the message and I'm glad we figured out the issue. You are correct, we were both beating our heads against the wall chasing a "ghost". Auto Europe also did a fantastic job installing the kit.

For all: His Emanage was bad - not just sorta kinda might be bad so lets just swap it out because. The unit was toast and the new one has been sigificantly revised. I'm going to make another post about this but in case anyone reads this as well if your Emanage serial numbers (Back bottom corner of the unit) begins with 01 or 02 there is a good chance you have a bad unit so please contact me so we can take care of it.

As for the various "piggyback not working" thoughts going round here is my reply:

When you plug a computer scan tool which can read live data into the ECU you will see short term fuel trims bouncing from - 1-3% to +1-3%?

That is called Short Term Fuel Trim and is the computer making small fuel adjustments. Factory cars do this as well. There is also a "Long Term Fuel Trim" as well. If the short term fuel trim shows a large percentage of change, it eventually is stored in the long term fuel trim. Think of it as temporary memory (Short term) and "learned" and stored memory (Long Term)

The ECU when in closed loop (Closed loop means the ECU is taking feedback from all the sensors and adjusting to the point where it was programmed to be at) as long as the piggyback is not fighting the ECU where fuel trims are more than +/- 5% the ECU leaves everything alone and stores no changes.

Under certain conditions such as over 3000 rpm, more than 3/4 throttle etc the computer goes into "open loop" where it ignores the fuel trims and goes with a standard table of hard written code in the computer. It does not change or "trim" the fuel in one direction or another at that point so an "under boost" or "under acceleration" tune will not change over time. (There is an exception so read ahead.)

As stated, when short term fuel trims are past 5% they eventually are stored as long term. (Even long term trims are dynamic but they change at a much slower pace) If the long term trims are way out of wack like say +/- 30% which would result from the short term trim being at +/- 30% then the computer will then change the scalers for injector size and such and the hard maps will change.

However, you have to be seriously out of wack for that to happen to the point the ECU trims or adds fuel back a ton and THEN that has to make it to the long term trim which THEN in turn can make it into to the hard coded maps. When that happens you will get check engine lights for "system too lean" and/or "system too rich" when the ECU is going so far out of wack to make the car run right so this doesn't happen in secret. The computer lets you know something is WAY out of wack and you better fix it.

If you are self tuning and you see "system too rich" or "system too lean" you are far off the mark and the computer is adjusting way too much.

This can also happen with a bad Emanage which Greddy has ASSURRED me is now fixed but that some older unit are having problems. Again, check your serial number and contact me if it begins with 01 or 02.

Brad: Get out there and enjoy that turbo!

[scottyb]

Jay as someone who has actually read the ECU Code, I have to say that your generalizations are incorrect for the Lotus ECU. In theory it sounds good and may be true for 90% of car ECUs, but just not for this one. The Stock ECU is very quick to write changes to the Maps. I have observed changes to the learnt map within 25 seconds. If the ECU feels it needs to adjust the fuel trim by 17% or more it will throw codes fast. As for when the ECU flips to open loop, there are 2 open loop modes. Open1 and Open2. With Open Loop1, the ECU is still using the learnt Maps.

The ONLY marginally "safe" way to run the eManage is by hooking it up to a wide-band A/F and have the eManage adjust it's Injector Maps as the ECU adapts. Also to have this function activated you need to have the Water Temp input working. Still I would watch your A/F while driving, because you will still see some funky things happening.

[scottyb]

I think that anyone who is interested in dealing with Mr. Hass should read the following first:
http://www.moremonkey.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=279