bad camshafts- possible remedy - LotusTalk

lebrunseven · 04-01-2008, 05:46 PM

there is no doubt there is a camshaft defect in some 05-06 elise'. i am disturbed that most of the lotus dealer body, and lotus themselves, continue to deny the 'defect', and pass it off as 'you are using the wrong oil', or 'we have not seen this before'.... i (and most all of you) paid msrp $$$ for your elise, and i expect them (lotus) to step up & correct the problem. i am a Toyota dealer- that's how good business is conducted! when there is a problem- just fix it & we can go on enjoying our cars. end of story.
just how many of these camshafts are going bad? my friend just removed his cam cover, and noticed #3 lobe had wear. he called his dealer, and they said 'we have not seen one yet, and have not replaced a camshaft.' i think the factory is applying pressure on these dealers to 'play dumb'. well, i don't go for it! the issue is a defective grind- something caused when being manufactured. my idea: on this post, we have to get a real count of those cars w/ the defect. the factory usually knows the problem long before, and usually identifies w/ VIN breaks. to no surprise, LOTUS is being quiet in order to save $$$.
please, we need an actual count, year of car, last 6 of VIN to determine the depth of the problem. i think, as LOTUS is not too interested in keeping their elise customers happy- we may have to take it to the next level. Class action or whatever. I get really ticked when a mfg. turns their back on the customer. all they care about is warranty expense. take the money and run.
let's get a list started, and go from there.

Randy Chase · 04-01-2008, 05:54 PM

Certainly you can't be speaking for all Toyota dealers. Not from my experience with bad cats on the 1ZZ engine or oil sludge on the V6 engines.

Icedog_16 · 04-01-2008, 06:04 PM

I've said it plenty before, report it to the NHTSA. Then they'll be forced to investigate it further and someone can hold them accountable.

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/index.cfm

Also make mention of the cylinder-three broken rocker arms and misaligned oil jets. I think all of these problems are interrelated. I've already reported mine.

insane · 04-01-2008, 08:28 PM

L30139

maz · 04-04-2008, 05:25 PM

if you are a dealer, you know that you have a lot of lattitude on wether or not to help a customer out. from personal experience i can say, and people who know where i came from can back me up, that lotus cars is willing to twist their own warranty policies beyond all recognition to accomodate loyal customers. if you are having trouble with a dealership i urge you to begin talking to your regional lotus cars field representative. i think you will find that unless you have been extraordinaily hard on your car that lotus tries to come good.

the people at lcu are all good people and i am ashamed of some the crap they have to deal with.

if you want to encourage lotus to leave us all high and dry in the states, go ahead and go class action. the way the pound is trading they are probably finding it hard to make money here anyway.

maz · 04-04-2008, 07:30 PM

the other thing is that this is a toyota engine and as such, it would be toyota, not lotus making the engineering change, wouldn't it?

Bane · 04-04-2008, 09:36 PM

What boggles my mind is that I haven't heard a peep from the Celica GTS/Matrix XRS guys about this issue.

Did Lotus buy a bunch of 2nd hand 2ZZ engines from Toyota to save some money? We seem to have a lot more issues then the guys on the other side of the coin. Granted most if not all Lotus cars are driven harder then their Toyota counterparts but still we should at least try to benchmark against the other enthusiasts.

insane · 04-06-2008, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bane

What boggles my mind is that I haven't heard a peep from the Celica GTS/Matrix XRS guys about this issue...

They peeped. If I remember where I read it, I'll post.

lebrunseven · 04-08-2008, 06:30 PM

my thoughts are not to have elise owners left w/ large repair bill for something that may be common w/ 05-06 elises. i strongly feel that if more than a few customers experience the same problem- then lotus should repair w/ out issue. isolated problems are a complete different story- that should be a dealer call. i am in the new car business & work w/ the same mindset- if more than a few break, then mfg should repair it. i don't wish any hardship on lotus, but they have to take care of their customers where there is a common thread. that is, if they want any type repeat business. i deal w/ several mfg- and most will deny any problems (even if common) unless some pressure applied. too bad that is the usual way it works.

maz · 04-08-2008, 07:09 PM

if it is an engine problem, then toyota should be working on a fix, not lotus cars plc. Lotus got out of the engine business after the 918. if you know so much about toyota, tell them to fix the issue. you will be a hero to all of us.

lebrunseven · 04-08-2008, 07:23 PM

nobody is looking to be a here here...... agreed- mfg of camshaft should stand behind product. i take it you have not had a problem w/ your engine? if & when you do- you dont mind paying for the repair???

twaszak1 · 04-08-2008, 07:34 PM

i dont often agree with MAZ....but well said. dave, mike and allan have been very good IMO, and personal experience, at covering things on cars that havent been beat beyond recognition.

Dave, Mike, Allan, Maz.......

Quote:

Originally Posted by maz

if you are a dealer, you know that you have a lot of lattitude on wether or not to help a customer out. from personal experience i can say, and people who know where i came from can back me up, that lotus cars is willing to twist their own warranty policies beyond all recognition to accomodate loyal customers. if you are having trouble with a dealership i urge you to begin talking to your regional lotus cars field representative. i think you will find that unless you have been extraordinaily hard on your car that lotus tries to come good.

the people at lcu are all good people and i am ashamed of some the crap they have to deal with.

if you want to encourage lotus to leave us all high and dry in the states, go ahead and go class action. the way the pound is trading they are probably finding it hard to make money here anyway.

shay2nak · 04-10-2008, 08:09 PM

+1 for going after Toyota. They probably gave lotus a bad batch of cams.

mp3moose · 04-11-2008, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperVixen

Our service advisor asked me to post this as he does not have a log in. deleted at request of op

This is almost exactly what my dealer told me as well. Lotus is aware and is paying for the fix.

SKYVUE · 04-11-2008, 10:29 AM

Carl removed the valve cover of my '05 Elise (31000 miles) and we were surprised there were minimal wear on the cam lobes! I'm lucky in this case. That does not discount that there are many other '05-'06 Elises out there that has the cam problem.

I applaud SuperVixen's post and the dealer that takes this problem seriously!!

Here's a task for you: If you have a few hours, remove the valve cover (properly of course) and inspect for wear. Let's find how many Elises have the problem. Note the year, mileage and the use (street or track or both).

Toyota engine design problem? Let's get this done.

--Hal

Icedog_16 · 04-11-2008, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mp3moose

This is almost exactly what my dealer told me as well. Lotus is aware and is paying for the fix.

So, it appears as though they've had a change of heart. Actually, they're saying exactly what I told them the whole time - that it's a design problem. Now I'm out $5K. Where does that leave me?

mp3moose · 04-11-2008, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icedog_16

So, it appears as though they've had a change of heart. Where does that leave me?

Have you tried another dealer? I know they are few and far between, but it might be worth a shot. That or call the Lotus rep.

carlover · 04-11-2008, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mp3moose

Have you tried another dealer? I know they are few and far between, but it might be worth a shot. That or call the Lotus rep.

He already got rid of the car...

mp3moose · 04-11-2008, 11:05 AM

Ouch. Sounds like you got the short end of the stick. My condolences.

Icedog_16 · 04-11-2008, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mp3moose

Have you tried another dealer? I know they are few and far between, but it might be worth a shot. That or call the Lotus rep.

Kind of hard to do when I'm driving a BMW now. I had to get rid of the car because it was my daily driver and to try to mitigate my loss. When the service manager prefaces the deal that was worked out with, "This is just what we're being told by Lotus. It's just an estimate, we may need more parts, we might have to machine the head, it may take more labor." That doesn't bode well, IMO, considering what I'd already been through. So I asked him, "So, Brian, are you saying that $X is just a starting point?" To which he responded yes. That's a pretty big question mark. And I said I'd get back to him on it. Sat on it for a week or so and decided I couldn't take the chance. Had I been able to let the car sit for months (though I shouldn't have had to), maybe we'd be having a different discussion.

Once bitten, twice shy. I said as much in a prior conversation with Rick MacLeish.

04-01-2008, 05:46 PM	#1 (permalink)
lebrunseven lebrunseven Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: upstate new york Posts: 48	bad camshafts- possible remedy there is no doubt there is a camshaft defect in some 05-06 elise'. i am disturbed that most of the lotus dealer body, and lotus themselves, continue to deny the 'defect', and pass it off as 'you are using the wrong oil', or 'we have not seen this before'.... i (and most all of you) paid msrp $$$ for your elise, and i expect them (lotus) to step up & correct the problem. i am a Toyota dealer- that's how good business is conducted! when there is a problem- just fix it & we can go on enjoying our cars. end of story. just how many of these camshafts are going bad? my friend just removed his cam cover, and noticed #3 lobe had wear. he called his dealer, and they said 'we have not seen one yet, and have not replaced a camshaft.' i think the factory is applying pressure on these dealers to 'play dumb'. well, i don't go for it! the issue is a defective grind- something caused when being manufactured. my idea: on this post, we have to get a real count of those cars w/ the defect. the factory usually knows the problem long before, and usually identifies w/ VIN breaks. to no surprise, LOTUS is being quiet in order to save $$$. please, we need an actual count, year of car, last 6 of VIN to determine the depth of the problem. i think, as LOTUS is not too interested in keeping their elise customers happy- we may have to take it to the next level. Class action or whatever. I get really ticked when a mfg. turns their back on the customer. all they care about is warranty expense. take the money and run. let's get a list started, and go from there.

04-01-2008, 05:54 PM	#2 (permalink)
Randy Chase Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: San Diego and where ever the roads lead Posts: 28,172 Images: 761	Certainly you can't be speaking for all Toyota dealers. Not from my experience with bad cats on the 1ZZ engine or oil sludge on the V6 engines. __________________ [b]* V E R I T A S * A E Q U I T A S [/b] We have been feeling the buzz since 2002 2006 Noble M400. Getrag tranny, Quaiffe LSD, Hinged clams. Duratec dual turbo V6. Hoosier 315-18 tires. 2350 pounds. Over 500hp. Track weapon. 2009 Rossion Q1. [color=orange]Monaco Orange. [/color]Wing. Black leather/Alcantara with orange stitching. The street car. In build: 2009 Toniq R (300whp? 1100 pounds?). [color=orange]Chrome Orange. [/color] Lexus GX-470 tow vehicle. [color=blue]“Busy at times off the forum and scary* actually off the Internets. So I may not see your pm or emails for a while"[/color]

04-01-2008, 08:28 PM	#4 (permalink)
insane Mikey likes it! Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Winter Park, Fla Posts: 1,301	L30139 __________________ -Michael '05 Nighfall Blue with Rallye Stripes!

04-04-2008, 05:25 PM	#5 (permalink)
maz uniter not a divider Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: chicago Posts: 1,303	if you are a dealer, you know that you have a lot of lattitude on wether or not to help a customer out. from personal experience i can say, and people who know where i came from can back me up, that lotus cars is willing to twist their own warranty policies beyond all recognition to accomodate loyal customers. if you are having trouble with a dealership i urge you to begin talking to your regional lotus cars field representative. i think you will find that unless you have been extraordinaily hard on your car that lotus tries to come good. the people at lcu are all good people and i am ashamed of some the crap they have to deal with. if you want to encourage lotus to leave us all high and dry in the states, go ahead and go class action. the way the pound is trading they are probably finding it hard to make money here anyway. __________________ www.lotuscarclub.org "Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns - the ones we don't know we don't know." (rumsfeld)

04-04-2008, 07:30 PM	#6 (permalink)
maz uniter not a divider Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: chicago Posts: 1,303	the other thing is that this is a toyota engine and as such, it would be toyota, not lotus making the engineering change, wouldn't it? __________________ www.lotuscarclub.org "Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns - the ones we don't know we don't know." (rumsfeld)

04-01-2008, 06:04 PM	#3 (permalink)
Icedog_16 I drank what?!? Join Date: May 2005 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 4,210	I've said it plenty before, report it to the NHTSA. Then they'll be forced to investigate it further and someone can hold them accountable. http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/index.cfm Also make mention of the cylinder-three broken rocker arms and misaligned oil jets. I think all of these problems are interrelated. I've already reported mine.

04-04-2008, 09:36 PM	#7 (permalink)
Bane . Join Date: May 2005 Location: AZ Posts: 2,960 Images: 4	What boggles my mind is that I haven't heard a peep from the Celica GTS/Matrix XRS guys about this issue. Did Lotus buy a bunch of 2nd hand 2ZZ engines from Toyota to save some money? We seem to have a lot more issues then the guys on the other side of the coin. Granted most if not all Lotus cars are driven harder then their Toyota counterparts but still we should at least try to benchmark against the other enthusiasts. __________________ $599 PPE header (INFO) 2007 BMW 335i - Mostly stock un-Official LotusTalk Stealth Bulb provider *6* sets in stock!

04-08-2008, 06:30 PM	#9 (permalink)
lebrunseven lebrunseven Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: upstate new york Posts: 48	my thoughts are not to have elise owners left w/ large repair bill for something that may be common w/ 05-06 elises. i strongly feel that if more than a few customers experience the same problem- then lotus should repair w/ out issue. isolated problems are a complete different story- that should be a dealer call. i am in the new car business & work w/ the same mindset- if more than a few break, then mfg should repair it. i don't wish any hardship on lotus, but they have to take care of their customers where there is a common thread. that is, if they want any type repeat business. i deal w/ several mfg- and most will deny any problems (even if common) unless some pressure applied. too bad that is the usual way it works.

04-08-2008, 07:09 PM	#10 (permalink)
maz uniter not a divider Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: chicago Posts: 1,303	if it is an engine problem, then toyota should be working on a fix, not lotus cars plc. Lotus got out of the engine business after the 918. if you know so much about toyota, tell them to fix the issue. you will be a hero to all of us. __________________ www.lotuscarclub.org "Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns - the ones we don't know we don't know." (rumsfeld)

04-08-2008, 07:23 PM	#11 (permalink)
lebrunseven lebrunseven Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: upstate new york Posts: 48	nobody is looking to be a here here...... agreed- mfg of camshaft should stand behind product. i take it you have not had a problem w/ your engine? if & when you do- you dont mind paying for the repair???

04-10-2008, 08:09 PM	#13 (permalink)
shay2nak I <3 chicken, I <3 liver Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Land of da 1000 Oaks, CA Posts: 15,006	+1 for going after Toyota. They probably gave lotus a bad batch of cams. __________________ save ~10 lbs gain 1 hp EQ: Y=(190X) / (1984-X) where Y is (HP) and X is (lbs) '07 EXIGE S * MY CAR ** VIDEOS! '08 ACURA TSX 6-speed http://www.makeNYNYagain.com

04-11-2008, 10:29 AM	#15 (permalink)
SKYVUE SKYVUE Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Thousand Oaks, CA Posts: 2,131 Images: 1	Carl removed the valve cover of my '05 Elise (31000 miles) and we were surprised there were minimal wear on the cam lobes! I'm lucky in this case. That does not discount that there are many other '05-'06 Elises out there that has the cam problem. I applaud SuperVixen's post and the dealer that takes this problem seriously!! Here's a task for you: If you have a few hours, remove the valve cover (properly of course) and inspect for wear. Let's find how many Elises have the problem. Note the year, mileage and the use (street or track or both). Toyota engine design problem? Let's get this done. --Hal __________________ --SKYVUE Resident Astronomer '05 Saffron Elise,SOLD! '07 CaymanS

04-11-2008, 11:05 AM	#19 (permalink)
mp3moose Complete Lotus Junkie Join Date: May 2004 Location: Washington DC Posts: 692	Ouch. Sounds like you got the short end of the stick. My condolences.

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