Camshaft cover defect causing rocker-arm breakage (P1302)?

[ZTEC]

Originally Posted by ZAMMY1

i guess it's time to pull my valve cover and do the 'squirt test' first on the elise and then on the XRS.
the elise is up for the winter so there's no lost driving time.
i have about 10,500 on the elise and about 22k on the xrs, i think.
is there anything i should know beyond the real toyota manuals?
is it necessary to replace gaskets/o-rings for a R and R?
sam

If I were you I would just pull the cover and inspect for wear on the high lift cam and the orientaion of the shower holes in the tube. If you suspect you have a bad Valve Cover take pics and hopefully by then we will have some answers from Lotus. The valve cover gasket is only a few bucks but can be reused if still in good condition.

[MikeW]

If the lack of oiling is an issue and you discover you have a bad spray bar, just fixing it may only buy you some time. You need to inspect everything pretty well to make sure the damage hasn't started at all. Otherwise, fixing it may get you just past the warranty period while the cam is starting to die. Then you're stuck down the road. $$$

By the way, broken rocker pieces near a moving valve spring is a potential problem. In the future, I would check to see is there is any indication of anything contacting a valve spring. Just putting a sharp scratch in a coil is a stress riser you don't want that.

[insane]

Lots of good input. Can't wait to see the results of others' squirt tests.

Sammy -- we re-used the gaskets and spark-plug tower seals. They were fine.

[xtn]

insane -

If you've got a minute could you please post a reasonably close up view of a new rocker arm? Profile side view, such that I can see the side view of the slipper follower?

Much appreciated if you can handle this request!

xtn

[insane]

Sorry man, car's back together and delivered to the restoration shop for new clam shells and paint. Best I can do is a diagram or two:

[Balrok]

Originally Posted by tesprit

Track day only misfire!!!!

HOLY **** man. Nicely done Mike

[shay2nak]

one of the Toyota guys (celica, mr2) posted a pic of these overhead sprays some months back when this issue first arose and one was freaked, #3 I believe. So it doesn't surprise me that this could be the cause of it. Especially, since #3 is the one that's failing.

Actually, I saw a car in person last week who's engine was apart because of this problem and looking at the holes, one was off.

I'm tempted to remove my valve cover to inspect the alignment of hole #3 with respect to the others.

[MikeW]

Since one guy had a cyl 3 & 4 lobe die, you can't assume anything is right. Probably a good idea to flow the spray bar and check of each hole.

Maybe there's a pattern here, like engines built during certain date codes have this issue?

[insane]

I didn't think of it before, but a friend of mine suggested putting paper cups under each streams to make sure the flow rates are in check too. So anybody who's checking, check that too!

[ZAMMY1]

HERE'S MINE!
from my '06 elise.
i aint real happy with the pattern.
(lets see if this works...)

[ZAMMY1]

it worked!
i also have some higher def pix too.
now, what do, what to do...
the cams look fair yet, nothing that i can feel with a fingernail.
10,500 miles, shell rotella 5W-40.
i also ckecked the clearances, all seem OK.
sam

[Dragon]

Originally Posted by insane

I didn't think of it before, but a friend of mine suggested putting paper cups under each streams to make sure the flow rates are in check too. So anybody who's checking, check that too!

Flow rates would be nice to see as long as they are done at the generally the same pressure that the engine operates at. I haven't looked in to this engine that much yet, but most piston engine usually have a restrictor somewhere in between the head and block to lower the oil pressure to the head/valve assy's. Doe's anyone here know the operating oil pressure range of this oil delevery system?

[AlanS]

Originally Posted by MikeW

Since one guy had a cyl 3 & 4 lobe die, you can't assume anything is right. Probably a good idea to flow the spray bar and check of each hole.

Maybe there's a pattern here, like engines built during certain date codes have this issue?

How about #2, 3, and 4 (I believe) on my car? I say I believe because at the time I hadn't heard about a cylinder 3-specific problem. There was significant wear on all but one high cam lobe on one end of the camshaft.

[Icedog_16]

Guys, I emailed Rick MacLeish this morning and laid out the problem in detail thanks to Badnis at exiges, Mike, and Nick. He said that he would be forwarding the information to their engineering staff to investigate; but, he still insisted that, at least in my case, the rocker arm broke due to an overrev and, thus, is not covered. They are willing to let me pay for the repair and they'll reimburse me if the rocker arm is defective (I think we now know the problem is likely not the rocker arm and I'm not going to hang myself out there on a technicality); however, I told them that I don't feel that I should initially bear the burden of repairing a defective vehicle after I have done more than my share of due diligence in stating a case and then proving (with help )that there is a problem with either the design of the engine or a batch of engines. Again, mad props to the peeps of LT. Man, I can't imagine dealing with this in the early 90s or something without widespread access to the Internet.

I responded by offering a compromise: have the dealer remove my valve cover and perform the same test. If #3 is off, they repair my engine and all is well. If it's not, I stand corrected, eat some crow, and I'll either repair or dispose of the car. Personally, I think that seems quite fair - especially considering that they'll need to get more info on the issue in the first place. Based on the fact that I didn't get a response right back, I'd say that my proposition is probably being bounced off of Hethel. So I hope to have a response tomorrow. I will say that, for the most part, Rick has been quite responsive - although it generally has not been the response I've been looking for.

[ZAMMY1]

i think if you look in the pipe that sticks down into the head to transfer oil, there's a restriction there.
sam

[insane]

Originally Posted by ZAMMY1

it worked!
i also have some higher def pix too.
now, what do, what to do...
the cams look fair yet, nothing that i can feel with a fingernail.
10,500 miles, shell rotella 5W-40.
i also ckecked the clearances, all seem OK.
sam

Whoo Hoo! Nice lawn sprinkler!

It was suggested to me to try to form the piping so that the pisser is aims right -- else make up a new loop using brass tubing.

BTW.... sure is easy to spot I-3. What's up with E-1, though?

[ZTEC]

Originally Posted by ZAMMY1

HERE'S MINE!
from my '06 elise.
i aint real happy with the pattern.
(lets see if this works...)

#3 is the same as Insane's spray pattern - Off the intended mark, Agree with Carl, Please post up pics of your cams (both sides) ??? Specifically intake #3 and Exhaust #1

[TheViper]

You guys have done valuable work...thanks

[MikeW]

Just wondering, how far above the cam lobes is the spray bar? You can perch a lump of modeling clay (with Saran Wrap on top and bottom of the clay so it doesn't stick to the metal) and put the cam cover on and squish it. Then measure the thickness. Do it on the heel of the lobe so you can see how the tube centers or doesn't center itself over the lobe. This is much easier than cutting a section out of a cam cover for observation.

[ZTEC]

Originally Posted by MikeW

Just wondering, how far above the cam lobes is the spray bar? You can perch a lump of modeling clay (with Saran Wrap on top and bottom of the clay so it doesn't stick to the metal) and put the cam cover on and squish it. Then measure the thickness. Do it on the heel of the lobe so you can see how the tube centers or doesn't center itself over the lobe. This is much easier than cutting a section out of a cam cover for observation.

That's a good idea - I hope to pull my cover tomorrow and have a look, I have some plumbers putty that will do the trick just fine