Chronicle of a Honda K-series swap.

[.::F[L]Y::.]

Originally Posted by WhatsADSM

Okay that's all I needed to hear. I always thought that there was a minor "sync" issue with that box.

I'll get in touch with Hondata and help them debug the issue. We can get it straightened out.

Also, fuel gauge seems to work fine? if that helps.

Would be fantastic if it can get sorted out

[Exiged]

I'm sure we will get it nailed down. whatsadsm made his own converter box if you can believe that! Between him and hondata were in great hands! I'd love to run the aim dash but then the chassis mileage is now off.. Not sure if that's going to matter after what I did to this car or not but who knows lol


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[Exiged]

Paging Derek and Murray. Ok I had my tranny rebuilt with a new dif and new dif bearings... Guy who rebuild the tranny didn't replace the passenger side axle seal just the driver side. Don't ask me why! Anyways when I had my axles assembled I sent my half shaft to innovative and they said the bearing seemed a little loose but should be fine. Anyways after a few hundred miles. My guess would be 800 or so the passenger side axle seal started to leak. Now the innovative dust shield doesnt fit with our tranny mount as the mount is in the way. So I pulled the axle and half shaft out a few minutes ago and checked the seal. It looks just like my new one with no apparent wear. The new one just has grease on it. Anyways the old seal did have some sand in around it. Now looking at the half shaft the bearing does have some good movement.. I'm not sure if it's the actual bearing or the rubber part moving?

So is it possible that the seal is leaking because of excess movement on the half shaft bearing? the car is around 385whp so it is seeing some stress. How much movement do these normally have? Not sure this could be the problem. As most of the play is when I grab the shaft and rock it back and forth I don't think it really has the much play once its bolted up. Also no noise from the bearing.

So is it worth replacing the bearing? Or is that probably not the issue. I refit the old seal to the shaft and it was pretty tight but tighter as it got closer to the side with the bearing. The shaft also has some wear not any finger nail grabbers just obvious signs where the seal rides.

So what do you think? Leaking from the sand? Leaking from the halfshaft bearing? Leaking from a semi-worn half shaft??

Ahhh what to do!!?? Replace the seal and see if that does it? Bound to come back from no dust shield?


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[dstevens]

BTW the dash converter is now fixed for the 2005-2007.

I would not use an intermediate shaft which had bearing play - normally they are dead tight, and this would indicate that someone has beaten the axle out of the shaft and damaged to bearing.

There is a transmission dust shield, which is steel pressing on the axle itself, and the heat shield, which bolts to the engine block / girdle. Not having an innovate kit I'm not sure what has happened to these parts as they are all stock on my car. Photos may help.

What do you mean by sand around the seal? Surface irregularities from the transmission case casting? Again, photos would help.

[Exiged]

Sweet on the converter! Do I need to send mine in or is there something that needs to be done on my install? It only happens during some initial startups.

The dust shield pressed onto the half shaft needed to be removed to fit it by the motor mount. But the drivers side doesn't have this seal so that shouldn't be a big deal. No heat shield installed.

Sand was found in by the sealing area basically stuck to fluid, grease in by the axle shaft.

Attached is pic of the axle
Shaft sealing area. No scars it's just not "mirror finish" I wouldn't say the bearing has play but it might just be the rubber isolator. If I grab both sides an push back and forth evenly nothing moves it's more when I step on the carrier and pull on the half shaft itself. I'll def change the bearing but should I purchase a whole
New half shaft assembly so the isolator is new?


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[dstevens]

You'll need to send in the converter - email me about it as I can do an exchange.

General rule is that if you can't feel anything on the seal surface with a fingernail, then it is withing 0.0001 and will seal. If the seal looks good too, then it should not leak. Perhaps you need to clean it down and see exactly where it is leaking.

Let me check some intermediate shafts I have for play.

[WhatsADSM]

Hmm I will freely admit I am not the expert when it comes to halfshaft seals.

I know I have had some that have leaked although nothing *appeared* to be wrong besides the fact they were just old. When I replaced them it stopped.

I do agree with Derek in that I have been told something similar in that if you can't catch a nail on it, it should be smooth enough (okay wear) for it to seal against.

I do wonder about the bearing. IIRC mine also had some play in it that i remember when it was apart. I will be pulling my passenger side axle/intermediate shaft in a day or two and I'll post up what I find.

BTW it turns out I snapped an axle and not a transmission at the track! What a sweet father's day gift. Only downside is I snapped the shaft off clean and a piece of the driver axle (inner CV) is still stuck in the transmission differential. I have an MFactory LSD so I believe all I have to do is pull the passenger axle, and stick a rod in from the passenger side and pop it out. I'm also going to try to call up driveshaftshop and see what they offer for stronger inner CVs. So for those of you launching very hard on the axles (mine did it on a well prepared drag strip), be careful of the inner CVs!

Chris,
I'll be in the same boat as you. Might as well replace the axle seals while I am at it

[Exiged]

Murray! That's what you get for having that insane torque curve! Lol im glad your tranny is ok this is good
News! The only part that stinks is you can't give the wife an excuse to get your new gear sets! If you can't get the piece out through the other side I would drill and tap it then hook on a slide hammer to a bolt and pop it out. Careful of shavings getting into the tranny of course.

I'll need to decide what to do tomorrow on my half shaft as I have an autox event on sat. Change the bearing plus 2 or 3 other parts is a about $40 in total parts and about $40-$50 to have a shop press out and press the new one in and still have the original rubber.. Or a totally new assembly for about $200. I really don't think the rubber or bearing is the cause of the leak as the cv joint at the half shaft does a good job of taking any of the twists where I am seeing "play" I'll post up a video of the movement I'm getting. I didn't compare the fit of the new seal vs the old seal maybe I'll try that tomorrow. Btw is there any secrets to putting the new seal in? I got the old one out easily and haven't true to put it in the new one yet.


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[WhatsADSM]

Originally Posted by Exiged

Murray! That's what you get for having that insane torque curve! Lol im glad your tranny is ok this is good
News! The only part that stinks is you can't give the wife an excuse to get your new gear sets! If you can't get the piece out through the other side I would drill and tap it then hook on a slide hammer to a bolt and pop it out. Careful of shavings getting into the tranny of course.

I'll need to decide what to do tomorrow on my half shaft as I have an autox event on sat. Change the bearing plus 2 or 3 other parts is a about $40 in total parts and about $40-$50 to have a shop press out and press the new one in and still have the original rubber.. Or a totally new assembly for about $200. I really don't think the rubber or bearing is the cause of the leak as the cv joint at the half shaft does a good job of taking any of the twists where I am seeing "play" I'll post up a video of the movement I'm getting. I didn't compare the fit of the new seal vs the old seal maybe I'll try that tomorrow. Btw is there any secrets to putting the new seal in? I got the old one out easily and haven't true to put it in the new one yet.


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Ahh yea you beat me to it. I was going to say the FSM does describe how to take just the bearing out. I can't imagine any of the end play really coming from anything other than the bearing, so I would think if you replaced that it would be basically as good as a new shaft (at least in terms of end play).

As for the axle seals there is a special honda tool: 07NAD-P20A100
However most people have luck just finding a socket as close as possible to the outer diameter and slowly pounding the seal back in with as much of the socket pushing against the surface area of the seal as possible.

[Exiged]

You Tube

You Tube

Video of the movement.. It only moves when the shaft gets pulled or pushed on i was thinking the rubber not the bearing?


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[WhatsADSM]

Plug-And-Play Wiring Harness:

Been meaning to update this thread for some of the recent wiring options:

The basic premise is that I have been doing some PNP harness conversions for people so that they can overcome one of the more difficult parts of the swap.

What you will need for a PNP harness:
1) The "Hybrid Racing" Universal Harness:
Hybrid Racing Universal Conversion Harness (K-Series ANY CHASSIS)
2) The stock Lotus ECU connector. This is available through Radiumauto.com, otherwise if it is for a 2006+ then I can order it for you and save a bunch of money. I think I get the connectors for like $40 whereas Radium gets around $100.
3) I need the 10 circuit Lotus "EHC" connector from the stock 2zz engine harness. I can send you a picture if you want to just send me the connector with a few inches of wire connected. Otherwise you can send me the whole stock Lotus 2zz engine harness and I'll cut it off.
4) The stock RSX-S (K20A2) engine harness. I use this simply to Tee in for the "No Charge" light on the dash. Additionally if you are wiring for AC operation then I need it for one more wire I believe. Otherwise if you don't want/need those features you can omit this harness.

If you choose to run the stock dash:
5) The Hondata dash converter:
Lotus Dash Converter
It comes with a little harness of its own which I can integrate in for you

If you decide to wire for AC:
6) The little Lotus AC compressor harness from the stock Lotus 2zz engine harness. Again I can take a picture of this connector for you, otherwise you can just ship me the whole thing and I'll cut it off.
- If you want AC then you will need to send me the RSX-S engine harness, as I noted in point #4 above.
*** Also want to point out here that I am supporting AC in the wiring. However at the moment there hasn't been a mechanical solution for the AC mounting bracket. Basically the stock Lotus AC compressor/lines are used but are bolted to the K-series. I believe Tim @ Innovative has been working on a bracket for this, but as of this writing there is no bracket yet. I personally suspect this is not that hard of a part to make someone just needs to do it ***


7) The charge harness you can do yourself as I outlined in my thread. I haven't been charging people to modify that, however I think I may start... as it just takes more of my time. It is definitely something you can do yourself, otherwise if you are uncomfortable then send me that as well.


What you get with a PNP harness:
- Harness with integrated fusing, and relay for main, switched 12v, and primary O2 sensor heater. No external relays/fusing needed. Integrated connector for primary O2 sensor.
- Fuel pump control (while retaining the stock multiplexor and inertia switch)
- ECU fan control
- Starter Button
- Reverse Lights
- Dash "No Charge" light
- (Assuming stock dash with Hondata converter) Stock dash functions which include RPM, VSS (includes now accurate speedo ), Oil pressure switch, MIL light, shift light, fuel level, water temp, etc.
- (If you run K-pro) OBD-II communications
- (If desired) AC control
- I can even send you a base startup map for K-pro if you would like

Basically the ECU (for the most part and in large thanks to K-pro) thinks its a very fast K-series Honda, while the car thinks is a 2zz Lotus

Cost:
I have been charging $350 + materials to create the harness... It takes me easily over 10 hours and I know what I am doing. So the wiring is definitely not a trivial task. In terms of materials it is usually about $50 and if you have me pickup the stock ECU connector (assuming you have a 2006+) then its another $40. Otherwise if you have a 2005 you will need to pick up the ECU connector from Radium which is ~$100, sorry I can't save you any money on that.

So most harnesses leave for between $400 and $450, in terms of payment to me.

The whole wiring breakdown is like this. (Assuming a 2006):
- Hybrid racing harness: $350
- My conversion to Lotus PNP: $450
- (Optional assuming using stock dash) Hondata dash converter: $300

My opinion on K-Pro versus Standalone:
The use of K-pro is a VERY smart idea! I personally LOVE K-pro and believe it is THE option for 95% of the people out there. Anyone that is a street car or needs OBD-II communications you will need K-Pro. Even most of the "race cars" will even likely want K-Pro. However you may consider a standalone if you really want a specific feature that is offered by a standalone (ethanol sensor integration, some complex external input/outputs, etc).

Dash selection:
As for the dash its up to you. I personally like an OEM style swap so I wanted the stock dash. However some people like the AiM dash as it does provide for a pretty dash and some slick datalogging. Remember though the Hondata has built into it internal datalogging so a lot of the data you want can already be logged and downloaded from the K-pro and comes along as part of the swap.

[aztec1382]

your thread has been a great reference
wanted to ask if you guys had the pin out or diagram of the connnector mentioned below.

I need the 10 circuit Lotus "EHC" connector from the stock 2zz engine harness. I can send you a picture if you want to just send me the connector with a few inches of wire connected.

[Exiged]

For those interested I am considering doing k swaps on the side. I'm in the New England area. Pm me if you are interested


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[bbs350z]

Originally Posted by aztec1382

your thread has been a great reference
wanted to ask if you guys had the pin out or diagram of the connnector mentioned below.

I need the 10 circuit Lotus "EHC" connector from the stock 2zz engine harness. I can send you a picture if you want to just send me the connector with a few inches of wire connected.

+1 i need a pic of the ehc connector as well

[aztec1382]

Contact rich5150
He can help with electrical, believe. He has a plug n play harness ready to ship as well

[aztec1382]

Contact rich5150
He can help with electrical, believe. He has a plug n play harness ready to ship as well

[lukerussell]

in the middle of a honda build, motor mounted anyway. anybody honda guys have functioning heater and/or A/C?

[WhatsADSM]

I think everyone has functioning heat. The AC does not have a mechanical solution at the moment it needs a bracket and a line fitting to allow the stock 2zz compressor to fit in the really tight space back there.

The electrical also needs to be solved if you are using a kpro and my wiring I wire in the ac circuit. Not sure if the others do.

[lukerussell]

May have an AC solution, taking measurements.

Silly time:

[bbs350z]

^what kinda clearance you have with the sidewinder manifold? and what are you doing for an intercooler?

as for progress, right now my car is all ripped apart for paint, bodywork, and interior work. motor, trans, and turbo kit is all sitting assembled ready to go in.