Cylinder head mods - Page 2 - LotusTalk

Boosted2.0 · 01-28-2009, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim-clayton

I heard the same info a while back. After looking at a stock head I agreed there wasn't much to be gained. However, I recently saw some flow numbers
before and after porting. There was a nice increase. The ported head also produced more hp on a dyno. The info was from someone I trust so it has me thinking.

Yup - we've been able to make substantial gains in flow and airspeed with port work on the 2ZZ. Anyone who says different PROBABLY either doesn't know what they are doing or doesnt have a flowbench.

Dragon · 01-29-2009, 02:32 AM

You might see some gains on a N/A engine, but on a forced induction engine they will be minimal. You'd be better off spending the porting $ on a smaller pulley and a new tune or removing more weight via expensive parts.

GTsRasta · 01-29-2009, 07:56 AM

More VE is always a good thing.

NewCelica.org Forum - View Single Post - Update on me and head porting R&D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boosted2.0

Okay - back on topic - Badceli's before & after head flow results are in - enjoy

Intake:

Exhaust

turbophil · 01-29-2009, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bavarian Motorist

Nope. It's a standalone.

+1

Quote:

Originally Posted by ...m...

...i thought EFI piggybacked the lotus ECU, not replaced...

The stock ECU remains in place to drive the stock dash. Short of that, the EFI is a complete standalone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by toysport

correct me if i'm wrong Phil but did you released your tvs sc already?

Have not formally released a kit. Have fitted a few cars with it on a one-off basis, and they are super solid and very fast. To my knowledge, there's still not a completed flash tune for it. The generic "kit" tunes are a bit tougher to iron out from what I gather since they need to be road tested and compliant to wider variety of vehicles than a custom tune... There are loads of EFI "base" tunes for it should you want to go down that path. You would then tweak the base tune to suit you needs. Will probably be a PFC tune for it before too long, as we're fitting one to another member's car, which should be interesting and cheap.

In otherwords, the hardware is sorted 100% for an upgrade. The tuning is still up to the end user at this point, which is why I haven't released a complete "kit"... PM/ring me for further discussion if you're interested...

Sorry for thread jack...

Good stuff boosted

Later,

Phil

toysport · 01-29-2009, 04:07 PM

thanx everyone .and one more question Phil, if your kit will be released, are you planning to include your efi with the kit? thanx.

turbophil · 01-29-2009, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toysport

thanx everyone .and one more question Phil, if your kit will be released, are you planning to include your efi with the kit? thanx.

Well it's not my EFI, so I guess not

I'll supply base tunes, tuning support, installation support, anything I can to help out with the EFI, but ultimately the EFI is purchased from DRS, who's on this forum... That said, I've helped a lot of folks with EFIs and still field EFI questions weekly, if not daily, regardless of whether they run something I made on their car... I'm a car guy first and businessman second

When we get the PFC tune done, same thing will apply. I won't be selling the PFC, but I'll do everything I can to help with it. There are some really knowledgable PFC guys in the Celica world, and I believe Boosted is one of them... So there will be a couple standalone ECU options and I'm certain atleast one, if not two or three options to go to for a flash of the stock ECU...

Hope that helps,

Phil

ZAMMY1 · 01-29-2009, 06:43 PM

to get back to the original thread, with simply better breathing, why doesn't the MAF/O2 feedback system take care of the relatively minor change in breathing?
i would expect the long term fuel trim to change a bit.
is there not enough trim to properly alter the F/A ratio?
isn't this what happens when the breathing is improved when a less restrictive air filter element is used?
or, is the system so 'knife-edge' set that it won't tolerate any change?
i'm not talking about a ducting change, just a few percent in flow.
i've been wrestling with this for a time.
thoughts?
sam

Kris from DRS · 01-29-2009, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boosted2.0

Yup - we've been able to make substantial gains in flow and airspeed with port work on the 2ZZ. Anyone who says different PROBABLY either doesn't know what they are doing or doesnt have a flowbench.

Yup + 1

DRS 2ZZ Head Data

Kris

Chococar · 01-30-2009, 05:01 AM

Kris,

Very impressive flow data. Do you happen to have dyno data that corresponds to the flow data so we can confirm that we get the same percentage improvement in torque?

Thanks,

Joe

turbophil · 01-30-2009, 05:47 AM

Kris- Very Cool!

MaineLotus · 01-30-2009, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boosted2.0

I strongly disagree, especially with the new intake manifold.

Anyone have before/after port/polish dynos with STOCK manifold, so we can see the improvement in quantifiable terms? Curious to compare the increase with $$ to port/polish and labor costs to remove/reinstall head & tune.

Third hand info - Monkeywrench said they did some before/after dynos and the differences were very small.

Kris from DRS · 01-30-2009, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chococar

Kris,

Very impressive flow data. Do you happen to have dyno data that corresponds to the flow data so we can confirm that we get the same percentage improvement in torque?

Thanks,

Joe

Unfortunatey I have not been able to do a before/after test on a car with the head work as the only variable, so far they are all fitted on built engines and other hardware changes all at once. We have 4 heads out in cars right now, Robains is supposed to be #5. There is one customer who only fitted the head to his car w/out any other changes and is running our EFI system. I am supposed to get some dyno data back from him, and I'll be able to compare logs from before / after the head. He says his butt dyno feels a good difference for now...FWIW. I'm looking forward to the dyno # as well. Regardless, the flowbench supports the potential.

Kris

Boosted2.0 · 01-31-2009, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaineLotus

Anyone have before/after port/polish dynos with STOCK manifold, so we can see the improvement in quantifiable terms? Curious to compare the increase with $$ to port/polish and labor costs to remove/reinstall head & tune.

Third hand info - Monkeywrench said they did some before/after dynos and the differences were very small.

No-one has done JUST P&P yet. Most people that bother with that also do valvetrain, cams and other stuff.

We have a couple nicely built engines with P&P heads that we will be putting on the dyno shortly.

UNfortunately both will have our new intake manifold on them.

Kris from DRS · 02-16-2009, 10:49 AM

FWIW - Info on engine we built with ported head and other mods can be found here Its Alive! Big SC Power in the BWR FrankenLotus

thanks
Kris

zuoom · 02-16-2009, 06:18 PM

it works. but the question is how much, where n when.

fzust · 02-16-2009, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kris from DRS

FWIW - Info on engine we built with ported head and other mods can be found here Its Alive! Big SC Power in the BWR FrankenLotus

thanks
Kris

There are other mods to my car as Kris said, but our last adventure on the same mustang running more boost(17.5psi) net about 305rwhp and maybe 200lb-ft. Now the crank is lighter, the clutch is lighter and it has race cams, but my hand-figuring/guestimation says the head was worth 35-50HP.

01-29-2009, 02:32 AM	#22 (permalink)
Dragon Hydrocarbons Rule Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Okinawa Japan Posts: 1,747 Images: 2	You might see some gains on a N/A engine, but on a forced induction engine they will be minimal. You'd be better off spending the porting $ on a smaller pulley and a new tune or removing more weight via expensive parts. __________________ 2006 Exige; BWR Supercharger, Adj Sway Bar, Ohlins Suspension, BSK Oil Catch Can, Moroso Oil Pan, ORC Clutch, Custom Exhaust, Black Volk Racing CE28N's w/ Toyo R1R's, 2 piece rotors, Pagid Blue Pads, BSK Wet Carbon (Side Skirts, Front Lip Spoiler, Gas Cap Cover, Center Console, Door Panels), Dry Carbon rear Diffuser, Harness Bar, BWR Gauge Mount, OMP Superquadro steering wheel, LETSLA Short Shifter, V2arms, Rear Tow Link Brace, RLS Battery Bracket, BOE Tow Bar, Stickers.

01-30-2009, 05:47 AM	#30 (permalink)
turbophil Plug Whisperer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Kansas City/ Overland Park Posts: 2,544 Images: 6	Kris- Very Cool! __________________ \| '05 GG LSS Elise \| A Track Chariot \| BOE ClamHinge \| BOE TVS SuperCharger 280whp/180wtq \| EFI Standalone Engine Management \| BOE Fuel Surge System \| BOE Lotus Tow Package See my car at BOE Fabrication: www.boefabrication.com *----->Last Updated: 9/25/2009* If something ain't worth doing right, it ain't worth doing... *Whoever thought working on a Lotus is hard, clearly hasn't tried it. Pick up a wrench and get some grease under your nails*

02-16-2009, 10:49 AM	#34 (permalink)
Kris from DRS Dynamic Racing Solutions Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: La Habra CA Posts: 343	FWIW - Info on engine we built with ported head and other mods can be found here Its Alive! Big SC Power in the BWR FrankenLotus thanks Kris __________________ Motorsport Components and Expert Service. Complete Lotus maintenance, installations, track preparation and specialty services.

02-16-2009, 06:18 PM	#35 (permalink)
zuoom Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 45	it works. but the question is how much, where n when. __________________ \| CelicaSG.org - CSG \|

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01-29-2009, 04:07 PM	#25 (permalink)
toysport Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 44	thanx everyone .and one more question Phil, if your kit will be released, are you planning to include your efi with the kit? thanx.

01-29-2009, 06:43 PM	#27 (permalink)
ZAMMY1 ZAMMY Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: washington, pa, (near PGH.) Posts: 1,557	to get back to the original thread, with simply better breathing, why doesn't the MAF/O2 feedback system take care of the relatively minor change in breathing? i would expect the long term fuel trim to change a bit. is there not enough trim to properly alter the F/A ratio? isn't this what happens when the breathing is improved when a less restrictive air filter element is used? or, is the system so 'knife-edge' set that it won't tolerate any change? i'm not talking about a ducting change, just a few percent in flow. i've been wrestling with this for a time. thoughts? sam

01-30-2009, 05:01 AM	#29 (permalink)
Chococar #334 Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Santa Barbara, CA Posts: 1,547	Kris, Very impressive flow data. Do you happen to have dyno data that corresponds to the flow data so we can confirm that we get the same percentage improvement in torque? Thanks, Joe

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