Engine Problem at Thunderhill - LotusTalk

ddurham · 11-11-2007, 09:05 AM

2005 Elise. 9K miles including about 20 track days. Stock exhaust. Yesterday at Thunderhill I was accelerating in third and at about 7500 RPM. The check engine light began blinking, the engine suddenly went flat (lost most of the power) and the exhaust note went flat. Sounded like a broken exhaust. I limped into the pits and the car wouldn't idle.
I removed the rear panel. No obvious exhaust leaks. Here's the weird part. After I started the car again, the engine seemed to cure itself. While the check engine light stayed on, the engine sounded fine. So back out on the track. 7500 RPM--same problem reoccurred. It cured itself again and I was able to drive home.

Any theories re what's wrong? Thanks

Jack · 11-11-2007, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddurham

2005 Elise. 9K miles including about 20 track days. Stock exhaust. Yesterday at Thunderhill I was accelerating in third and at about 7500 RPM. The check engine light began blinking, the engine suddenly went flat (lost most of the power) and the exhaust note went flat. Sounded like a broken exhaust. I limped into the pits and the car wouldn't idle.
I removed the rear panel. No obvious exhaust leaks. Here's the weird part. After I started the car again, the engine seemed to cure itself. While the check engine light stayed on, the engine sounded fine. So back out on the track. 7500 RPM--same problem reoccurred. It cured itself again and I was able to drive home.

Any theories re what's wrong? Thanks

Sounds something like this issue.... http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47594

ddurham · 11-11-2007, 10:10 AM

Thanks for the lead. My car is completely stock and I was running a mixture of 100 octane unleaded race gas and 91. Plus it was cool so I don't think gas was the issue.

A few more details. The Chech Engine Lite did come on the day before also (it was a 2 day event), but it ran fine and no oil pressure problems so I ignored it. Also I have been getting a brief power loss in hard left turns on the track at high RPM's symptome like fuel satevation for the past month or so. Yesterday was the first time that the CEL came on and it went into the limp mode.

JLSELISE · 11-11-2007, 10:19 AM

Possibly fuel pressure and/or fuel delivery problems under high power demand situations.
Check pump, injectors, filter, etc.

BTW, there is no performance advantage and it's pretty much a waste of $ to add/run race gas if everything in the motor is stock.

Jack · 11-11-2007, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddurham

Thanks for the lead. My car is completely stock and I was running a mixture of 100 octane unleaded race gas and 91. Plus it was cool so I don't think gas was the issue.

A few more details. The Chech Engine Lite did come on the day before also (it was a 2 day event), but it ran fine and no oil pressure problems so I ignored it. Also I have been getting a brief power loss in hard left turns on the track at high RPM's symptome like fuel satevation for the past month or so. Yesterday was the first time that the CEL came on and it went into the limp mode.

Some people have found the fuel starvation issue on left-hand turns to be electrical related issues/faulty grounding. Courtesy of My Elise -- "I replaced the inertia switch, fuel pump relay and used a special contact cleaner on the ECU contacts and the problem (sic..fuel starvation) hasn't returned. 1.5+G lateral loads."

See post #7 in this thread ...http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45403
That fix seems to have worked so far on few Cup255's with fuel cells -- fuel cells with their trap doors, etc shouldn't be experiencing fuel starvation. I can't guarantee it's the fix for others.

xtn · 11-12-2007, 07:29 AM

I have the same problem. Not the fuel starvation in turns. I'm talking about the limp-home mode.

Been in the shop two different times for a total of seven weeks. No resolution yet.

xtn

sleepless · 11-12-2007, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xtn

I have the same problem. Not the fuel starvation in turns. I'm talking about the limp-home mode.

Been in the shop two different times for a total of seven weeks. No resolution yet.

xtn

What codes are you guys seeing?

carl · 11-12-2007, 11:33 AM

Mark's car was showing a misfire number 3. carl

xtn · 11-12-2007, 11:54 AM

Mine always gives P1301, and occassionally it also gives a P1302.

xtn

carl · 11-12-2007, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xtn

Mine always gives P1301, and occassionally it also gives a P1302.

xtn

i think thats it. carl

twaszak1 · 11-12-2007, 12:38 PM

i would check the cams and the rockers. specifically looking at the cyl throwing the code

xtn · 11-12-2007, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4carl

i think thats it. carl

P1301 and P1302 are not cylinder specific. P0301, P0302, P0303 & P0304 are the cylinder specific codes.

My car is NOT throwing any cylinder specific codes, or any lean/rich codes either.

xtn

LittleRocket · 11-12-2007, 06:23 PM

P1301 and P1302 are driver emission system warnings aren't they? Apparently the ecu is a tree hugger. Start to damage the cats and it throws a fit.

sleepless · 11-12-2007, 06:40 PM

ddurham -

I believe it says somewhere in the owner's manual that if the check engine light is flashing to stop the car and have it towed to a service center (I believe most cars are setup this way; steady CEL is okay, flashing is BAD).

Time for a check up.

Mine had stretched its timing chain (twice now) and I got the CEL relating to the timing chain and the car would not switch to the second cam. I would not rev past 6000RPM. Sounds like you have some other issue.

xtn · 11-13-2007, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LittleRocket

P1301 and P1302 are driver emission system warnings aren't they? Apparently the ecu is a tree hugger. Start to damage the cats and it throws a fit.

P1301 is "random missfire"

P1302 is something like "missfire severerity may damage catalyst" or something similar

switkesj · 11-13-2007, 03:08 PM

Hey ddurham,

I was the other Elise out at Thunderhill Saturday. Like on Saturday I cannot offer any help now, sorry. But I can tell you that you didn't miss too much in the afternoon. It was pouring rain, leading to really conservative driving (by me at least). Hope to see you out there, problem-free, in the spring.

Josh

ddurham · 11-14-2007, 09:44 AM

Here's the result. I took it to British Motors in SF. As many of you said, it was a #3 cylinder misfire code. It turns out the wire to the #3 cylinder coil was intermittantly shorting out against the cam cover. They fixed the wire and replaced the #3 coil and all the plugs. The dealer said this is ot unusual and when it happens, it is ALWAYS the #3 wire.

Thanks to everybody for your help.

xtn · 11-14-2007, 11:29 AM

I only WISH my car was that easy to diagnose/fix.

Going to try to take off from work early today to go drop it off at the dealership again.

xtn

choi0706 · 11-14-2007, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleepless

ddurham -

I believe it says somewhere in the owner's manual that if the check engine light is flashing to stop the car and have it towed to a service center (I believe most cars are setup this way; steady CEL is okay, flashing is BAD).
.

flashing CEL means something bad is brewing..

ddurham · 12-12-2007, 04:24 PM

Bad News. The exact same problem reoccurred at Laguna. Two hours each way, a hotel room and the Speed Ventures fee and I didn't get two laps before it returned. Just like last time. First hot lap the check engine light came on but no symproms. The second lap the light started flashing and the engine went into limp mode. Code thrown was 1302. It's back at the dealer but they can't duplicate it on ther streets of San Francisco.

11-11-2007, 09:05 AM	#1 (permalink)
ddurham Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 76	Engine Problem at Thunderhill 2005 Elise. 9K miles including about 20 track days. Stock exhaust. Yesterday at Thunderhill I was accelerating in third and at about 7500 RPM. The check engine light began blinking, the engine suddenly went flat (lost most of the power) and the exhaust note went flat. Sounded like a broken exhaust. I limped into the pits and the car wouldn't idle. I removed the rear panel. No obvious exhaust leaks. Here's the weird part. After I started the car again, the engine seemed to cure itself. While the check engine light stayed on, the engine sounded fine. So back out on the track. 7500 RPM--same problem reoccurred. It cured itself again and I was able to drive home. Any theories re what's wrong? Thanks

11-11-2007, 10:19 AM	#4 (permalink)
JLSELISE Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Livermore, CA Posts: 501	Possibly fuel pressure and/or fuel delivery problems under high power demand situations. Check pump, injectors, filter, etc. BTW, there is no performance advantage and it's pretty much a waste of $ to add/run race gas if everything in the motor is stock. __________________ Joel '67 S3 Elan dhc (owned since 1970) '06 Audi A3 3.2 '04 Noble M12 (380 rwhp)

11-12-2007, 07:29 AM	#6 (permalink)
xtn McLareghini Bugatterrari Join Date: May 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 6,860	I have the same problem. Not the fuel starvation in turns. I'm talking about the limp-home mode. Been in the shop two different times for a total of seven weeks. No resolution yet. xtn __________________ 2006 McLareghini Bugatterrari, Storm Titanium... <mods> installed: air horn, Scroth 4-point ASM harnesses, Sector111 halon extinguisher and mounting bracket, Von Hep exhaust and rear panel delete, Pagid brake pads, red Volks CE28n wheels, Toyo RA-1 tires, Nitron SA coilovers, Sector111 (WorksBell) quick-disconnect steering wheel kit. awaiting installation: Scroth "pull-up" lap belts, Sector111 RTD Brace, Tony's heater bypass mod, and dropped steering rack mounting plates. </mods>

11-12-2007, 11:54 AM	#9 (permalink)
xtn McLareghini Bugatterrari Join Date: May 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 6,860	Mine always gives P1301, and occassionally it also gives a P1302. xtn __________________ 2006 McLareghini Bugatterrari, Storm Titanium... <mods> installed: air horn, Scroth 4-point ASM harnesses, Sector111 halon extinguisher and mounting bracket, Von Hep exhaust and rear panel delete, Pagid brake pads, red Volks CE28n wheels, Toyo RA-1 tires, Nitron SA coilovers, Sector111 (WorksBell) quick-disconnect steering wheel kit. awaiting installation: Scroth "pull-up" lap belts, Sector111 RTD Brace, Tony's heater bypass mod, and dropped steering rack mounting plates. </mods>

11-12-2007, 06:23 PM	#13 (permalink)
LittleRocket Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Houston, Tx Posts: 189	P1301 and P1302 are driver emission system warnings aren't they? Apparently the ecu is a tree hugger. Start to damage the cats and it throws a fit. __________________ Built 2zz powered, 6 speed-lsd mr2 spyder

11-11-2007, 10:10 AM	#3 (permalink)
ddurham Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 76	Thanks for the lead. My car is completely stock and I was running a mixture of 100 octane unleaded race gas and 91. Plus it was cool so I don't think gas was the issue. A few more details. The Chech Engine Lite did come on the day before also (it was a 2 day event), but it ran fine and no oil pressure problems so I ignored it. Also I have been getting a brief power loss in hard left turns on the track at high RPM's symptome like fuel satevation for the past month or so. Yesterday was the first time that the CEL came on and it went into the limp mode.

11-12-2007, 11:33 AM	#8 (permalink)
carl Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,074	Mark's car was showing a misfire number 3. carl

11-12-2007, 12:38 PM	#11 (permalink)
twaszak1 Lotus Service Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 740	i would check the cams and the rockers. specifically looking at the cyl throwing the code

11-12-2007, 06:40 PM	#14 (permalink)
sleepless Elise Fanatic Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 2,234	ddurham - I believe it says somewhere in the owner's manual that if the check engine light is flashing to stop the car and have it towed to a service center (I believe most cars are setup this way; steady CEL is okay, flashing is BAD). Time for a check up. Mine had stretched its timing chain (twice now) and I got the CEL relating to the timing chain and the car would not switch to the second cam. I would not rev past 6000RPM. Sounds like you have some other issue. __________________ Pete 05 Lotus Elise \| 06 Porsche Boxster S \| 97 Porsche Turbo

11-13-2007, 03:08 PM	#16 (permalink)
switkesj I Cut Mustangs in Half Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Menlo Park, CA Posts: 18	Other elise out there Saturday Hey ddurham, I was the other Elise out at Thunderhill Saturday. Like on Saturday I cannot offer any help now, sorry. But I can tell you that you didn't miss too much in the afternoon. It was pouring rain, leading to really conservative driving (by me at least). Hope to see you out there, problem-free, in the spring. Josh

11-14-2007, 09:44 AM	#17 (permalink)
ddurham Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 76	Here's the result. I took it to British Motors in SF. As many of you said, it was a #3 cylinder misfire code. It turns out the wire to the #3 cylinder coil was intermittantly shorting out against the cam cover. They fixed the wire and replaced the #3 coil and all the plugs. The dealer said this is ot unusual and when it happens, it is ALWAYS the #3 wire. Thanks to everybody for your help.

11-14-2007, 11:29 AM	#18 (permalink)
xtn McLareghini Bugatterrari Join Date: May 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 6,860	I only WISH my car was that easy to diagnose/fix. Going to try to take off from work early today to go drop it off at the dealership again. xtn __________________ 2006 McLareghini Bugatterrari, Storm Titanium... <mods> installed: air horn, Scroth 4-point ASM harnesses, Sector111 halon extinguisher and mounting bracket, Von Hep exhaust and rear panel delete, Pagid brake pads, red Volks CE28n wheels, Toyo RA-1 tires, Nitron SA coilovers, Sector111 (WorksBell) quick-disconnect steering wheel kit. awaiting installation: Scroth "pull-up" lap belts, Sector111 RTD Brace, Tony's heater bypass mod, and dropped steering rack mounting plates. </mods>

12-12-2007, 04:24 PM	#20 (permalink)
ddurham Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 76	It's happened again! Bad News. The exact same problem reoccurred at Laguna. Two hours each way, a hotel room and the Speed Ventures fee and I didn't get two laps before it returned. Just like last time. First hot lap the check engine light came on but no symproms. The second lap the light started flashing and the engine went into limp mode. Code thrown was 1302. It's back at the dealer but they can't duplicate it on ther streets of San Francisco.

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