Forcedfed Dyno Plot

[Lucky317]

I notice you got the same DIP we did when we first started tuning the 2ZZ.

if you work with the VVT options more it'll come right out.

I never touched the unichip so I'm not sure its capabilities. We used the power fc and have had nothing but great results.

the reason we found the dip so troublesome is because it sits right where you'd be landing give or take when you shift the 1-2 shift which is critical for a 1/4 mile run. you lose a ton of momentum.

good luck tuning it out. so far the kit looks great

[MattG]

[BrettP]

Originally posted by Lucky317
I notice you got the same DIP we did when we first started tuning the 2ZZ.

if you work with the VVT options more it'll come right out.

I never touched the unichip so I'm not sure its capabilities. We used the power fc and have had nothing but great results.

the reason we found the dip so troublesome is because it sits right where you'd be landing give or take when you shift the 1-2 shift which is critical for a 1/4 mile run. you lose a ton of momentum.

good luck tuning it out. so far the kit looks great

The Power FC is a good unit and we also sell them. However I did not think it worked with the 03 model and up Celica GTS? Plus the ecu on the Lotus is not a Toyota unit and the plugs are completely different. It is also around $650 more than the Unichip with the commander to tune it. We are not a Power Commander dealer and therefore we do not have access to all of the capabilities and would have to use a commander to tune the unit. We are trying to keep the cost of the turbo kit down as much as possible.

As for the dip, we only started tuning the car 2 days ago and it is not the same as the Celica's we have tuned. There are differences in the way we have routed plumbing, the exhaust etc. The car also is 10-15 whp stronger than any Celica stock we have dynoed, and sounds cammier as well. The Power FC would be a good choice for our 350 whp kit and we will take a look at that unit and another top secret option we are working on!

[evomind]

lucky317, is the dip ur referring to the one at the cam change? why in the world would u shift there from first to second in a quarter mile run?

[Vantage]

Originally posted by evomind
lucky317, is the dip ur referring to the one at the cam change? why in the world would u shift there from first to second in a quarter mile run?

I think he's talking about after you shift near redline, the rpm's land in the area of the dip. Not sure as to the rpm at which he is redlining.

[fzust]

That dip in HP and TQ when the second cam kicks in is all timing. I have seen this first-hand on a Celica GTS. Adding, not subtracting timing at this point will smooth out that dip. It will still have a shelf and then jump up, but the dip can be tuned out by adding timing. Or at least it could be on the Celica.

Kick looks great so far!

[Ruediger]

>>>That dip in HP and TQ when the second cam kicks in is all timing. I have seen this first-hand on a Celica GTS. Adding, not subtracting timing at this point will smooth out that dip. It will still have a shelf and then jump up, but the dip can be tuned out by adding timing.<<<

Why this has not been corrected by Toyota before, if it’s true ?

I can only guess and imagine that it is because of emission limits though I do not understand in detail. Perhaps somebody else is able to explain please.

[evomind]

oh...hahaha...thanks for clearing that up, vantage....

[Lucky317]

yeah the timing adjustments can help take it out.

and you're right about the power fc not working with drive by wire.

when you can play with the vvt and ignition it makes the power curve come out much smoother.

___________

I rev limit at 8600 rpms.

either way when you shift the average person will land in the 6200 rpm area which is right where this dip is.

I posted an N/A dyno of my car in the gts dyno thread on this forum. you can see how smooth the power band can be made with simple tuning.

either way cant wait to see more things from this company. glad to see someone puttin in the effort.

[jtanner]

Congrats! Very nice numbers. I'm looking forward to seeing more once you get the kinks tuned out.

Jim

[Joecooool]

Sure thats a cam transition? It looks like your getting detonation at 6250. At 11.5 to 1, it also looks like your running rich across the board.

You may want to lean out the A/F to about 12.5 to 1, you might even get another 15 hp or so when the A/F is nuts on.

I'll be interested to see the final results, I already have a Turbonetics ballbearing T3/T4 I was going to install when I break the engine in.

[BrettP]

Originally posted by Joecooool
Looks like your getting detonation at 6250 and running rich across the board.

You may want to lean out the A/F to about 12.5 to 1 and see if that takes care of the detonation problem. May even get another 15 hp or so when the A/F is correct.

I'll be interested to see the final results, I already have a Turbonetics ballbearing T3/T4 I was going to install when I break the engine in.

What are you talking about? We are not experiencing any detonation whatsoever, and leaning it out is not the way to go to fix that problem? If you detonate, leaning your fuel mixture will cause you to detonate more!

[Joecooool]

I corrected some of my post.

However, I'll answer your your new question. Running rich can cause the same results as running lean. I have found that too much fuel can hot foul spark plugs which can lead to early firing which can cause detonation. In addition, running rich can also create a heavy accumulation of deposits in the combustion chamber causing an engine run hotter than normal creating a hot spot that could also cause detonation.

Regardless, keep up the good work and let us know how she does when your done with the tuning.

[shay2nak]

Brett,

Are you guys going to use a turbo timer?

[Ditto]

The Power FC is a good unit and we also sell them. However I did not think it worked with the 03 model and up Celica GTS? Plus the ecu on the Lotus is not a Toyota unit and the plugs are completely different.

As Lucky317 said the reason the pfc won't work with '03 or newer Celica is the drive by wire. The 2zz in my Spyder is an '03 w/pfc. I just changed the throttle body over to an '02. Is the Elise drive by wire or cable throttle?

It could still be done if it's D-B-W, but you would have to run a throttle cable too.

[aletes]

Originally posted by Ditto
Is the Elise drive by wire or cable throttle?

Cable.

[Lucky317]

that dip is definitely NOT detonation. it's a COMMON problem in the 2zz. it's there even on the stock celica dynos. lol but with the right ignition, and VVT adjustments it can come right out.

[Ditto]

Originally posted by Ditto
As Lucky317 said the reason the pfc won't work with '03 or newer Celica is the drive by wire. The 2zz in my Spyder is an '03 w/pfc. I just changed the throttle body over to an '02. Is the Elise drive by wire or cable throttle?

It could still be done if it's D-B-W, but you would have to run a throttle cable too.

Then if you look at the pinout diagram for the Elise cross reference it with a Celica (2000 would probably be best) make the necessary changes (in this case you may have to change all ecu wires over to toyota plugs) and pfc should work.

[elise seeker]

I'm assuming adding this in completely voids the factory warranty? what warranty would your shop provide?

what other parts would need to be replaced to work with the extra power?

never driven turbo, but heard/read about the lag. how long is it from when you punch it until the extra power kicks in?

[BrettP]

Originally posted by elise seeker
I'm assuming adding this in completely voids the factory warranty? what warranty would your shop provide?

what other parts would need to be replaced to work with the extra power?

never driven turbo, but heard/read about the lag. how long is it from when you punch it until the extra power kicks in?

Come by the shop at 10AM and you can see for yourself when the power kicks in. Your factory warranty I am sure will be voided with thisa kit installed. We need to upgrade the clutch on the car and that is it as far as engine work goes. We will be selling some Alcon brakes which you will need with this extra power.