Forcefed Turbo vs. Sector 111 blower???

[elise/europa]

ECU: Like previously said, the S/C sector 111 have the advantage for the ECU, no dual ECU, or stand alone stuff. For me it is an advantage since my car is running on road too.

Power for power, the best is all a time a Turbo.

Efficiency: with the same compression ratio, the Turbo have a better efficiency than a s/c.

Torque at mid rpm: the best is turbo.

Muffler noise: the best is turbo, the turbo is eliminating by few dB the noise level. Plus the turbine noise is so nice.

Lag: I never tried a Turbo into the Elise, but for me, a lag is a basic line of a Turbo, it is part of the principle of teh Turbo, maybe very small, but still, it is no pressure into the intake until the exhaust have flow. On every turbo I tried (Kawa GPZ750, Subaru WRX, Renault Megane), it is like a progressive lag when you shift, and personnaly, I just dislike that, it is really personal. But this progressive lag give additional feeling of power.

Installation: I think that a blower is more straight forward, no connection between exhaust and intake.

Power update: I think that a Turbo is just more easy to. Crank the waste gate and that's it. You want to add an intercooler, it is more easy too. But of course, larger is the intercooler, and bigger will be the progressive turbo lag.

Engine life: can be bad with pre-ignition. More power on the same connecting rod bearing give a potential of added wear or bearing bending into it. Monkey are selling Clevite 77 bearing with special material back-up and taper shape at the end of the half sleeve. The turbo also increase the oil temperature since a oil line in going to the turbo bearing.

I think the decision is very personal and fonction of the driver. In my case, I decided to go with sector 111 s/c, because of the program done into the ECU; no added heat into the engine oil, which I am very paranoid (plus I never saw if an oversized oil pump exist); I don't want a maximum power, but a better power and not too much stress into the engine (with Crower conrod, Monkey clevite 77 bearing); and also I am very very agressive with my car; and I don't like to have a small lag, or a progressive lag too.

[P90Puma]

Originally Posted by Z-dculus

You're talking a 15k or more install on the FF kit vs. basically 1200-1500 for the Sector SC.

[deddie]

Originally Posted by Z-dculus

You're talking a 15k or more install on the FF kit vs. basically 1200-1500 for the Sector SC.

Proof read your posts or do more homework.

[brgelise]

Originally Posted by Z-dculus View Post
You're talking a 15k or more install on the FF kit vs. basically 1200-1500 for the Sector SC.
Proof read your posts or do more homework.


Id id that why I find it hard to believe it costs 15K installed for the turbo and only 1200-1500 for the SC. Proofread your proofread!! Isn't it more like $5000-7500 installed??

[P90Puma]

Originally Posted by brgelise

Id id that why I find it hard to believe it costs 15K installed for the turbo and only 1200-1500 for the SC. Proofread your proofread!! Isn't it more like $5000-7500 installed??

He never said 15k installed, he said 15k TO INSTALL. Which is what I 'd at.

Lotus tax in full effect.

Also find it hard to believe anyone who would charge 15k to install a turbo would only charge 1.5k for a blower.

[fzust]

I have the turbo on the XP Lotus. It started out as stock and clearly is not anymore. I've driven a SC car. The turbo has more power and more torque, the SC is very linear. The one thing I would also say about the ForcedFed kit is that even though I am getting 360 crank HP out of the car ON STOCK MOTOR(except head studs and valvesprings), the Engine, turbo, and all the kit ancilliaries have been flat out perfectly reliable.

[RCHAD]

i had the dealership let me take and exige s out for the day to try to convince my to not turbo the car...very unimpressed
so i turbo'd it...way better in every possible way
a centrifugal supercharger would be a great fit but roots...no way

[saudio]

The FF kit will end up costing double the sector 111 kit because of the kit price, the install price, and recommended add ons for the FF kit that are probably necessary because of the extra power and heat.

The FF car will probably also bury the SC car in the track. You get what you pay for.

[gameson]

what confused me is that Lotus goes SC instead of TC. Even BMW changes their SC to TC for the Mini Cooper S. and their 335 series is Twin Turbo...

[Emapeels older sis]

So in the lond run for a car that is drivin primarily on the road and sometimes on the track, biggest bang for the buck, and less likely to have problems? SC? i am in love with the sound of turbos and BOV'S hearing a nice BOV on something like a wrx seriously makes my day. But the turbo is more expensive right?

[blkelise]

I agree with fzust. I have been driving FF lotus cars for 10 months and they are very reliable.

I was at Forcedfed today talking with Casey (head mechanic)and looking at two s/c cars they are working on. The s/c cars are not inexpensive to work on and they weigh quite a bit more than the turbo equipment that comes with the FF kits. According to Casey the torque that is generated from the turbo is significantly greater than the s/c. The quality of the FF kits are race level. The machinery, design and welds are top notch. From what I have seen and experienced driving the turbo elise and exige, these mods are really high end and geared for the driver who wants significant increase in performance out of their lotus cars.

Now I am off to Infineon Raceway for two days of driving with the BMW club. Should be a blast.

[charliex]

so people who bought turbos for their cars, like turbos, people who bought sc's like sc's!

[drchris1]

Several of you have mentioned the Exige S as a comparison to the FF 275.

Please note that the Exige SC powers the car to 219hp, I think, whereas the S111 SC powers the car to 243. This is also a better boost than the new '08 Elise SC is supposed to have (219 also, I believe).

I think that what I'm getting for my money is a "put-it-in-and-forget-about-it" very significant boost in power with minimal risk to my engine.

The forget-about-it part is good for me because I have no idea how to tinker with tuning/settings, and because I don't want to have to do extra monitoring of my engine to make sure it's still doing okay.

Perhaps if I felt more comfortable with playing with that stuff, I might have gone for a bigger boost, like the FF 340.

At any rate, the 'surgery' is being performed next week, and I can't wait to have it back.

[reganfin]

Originally Posted by fzust

I have the turbo on the XP Lotus. It started out as stock and clearly is not anymore. I've driven a SC car. The turbo has more power and more torque, the SC is very linear. The one thing I would also say about the ForcedFed kit is that even though I am getting 360 crank HP out of the car ON STOCK MOTOR(except head studs and valvesprings), the Engine, turbo, and all the kit ancilliaries have been flat out perfectly reliable.

Fred can you be more specific? If I understand you correctly the only motor upgrades are the head studs and valve springs? Pistons are the same. I thought that the FF 380 kit used a built motor with lower compression.

Which head studs and valve springs did you use?
Did you get these from FF?
I read your sig but can you post a list of all of your mods?
Ben

[Darth G-F]

I have never seen a FF kit. This is my experience with a turbo Miata. I had a turbo on my Miata and I will not have aftermarket turbos anymore. I use my car on the track a lot and turbos generate so much heat I had many small annoyances on the track. Car would start overheating after only a couple laps. So I had to add a larger radiator. Later I had to add an oil cooler too. And even then the car couldn't be driven hard for more than 30min before doing a cool down lap or two.

Turbos generate heat. Maybe the Elise cooling system is much more efficient than the Miata's. But I wouldn't take a chance and if I had a Turbo Elise, I'd add a oil temp gauge and oil pressure gauge. You will also need a new clutch and a boost gauge to make sure the turbo doesn't start to oversboost.

Then you might have to run in boost/vacuum leak. You have to make sure tolet the turbo cool down before shutting it off etc.

For sure the turbo makes more power, but it comes at a price. For some this is just fun to play/tune with stuff. For me I just like to drive. So the very simple S/C kit from S111 is what I'm looking for. Not everyone is out there looking for the highest power.

[Darth G-F]

Originally Posted by RCHAD

i had the dealership let me take and exige s out for the day to try to convince my to not turbo the car...very unimpressed
so i turbo'd it...way better in every possible way
a centrifugal supercharger would be a great fit but roots...no way

I don't think a centrifugal would be a great fit for a car that makes its power at 6500+rpm. Usually centrifugal are fitted to big block high torque cars (Mustangs) so they can benefit from more top end power.

On a car with high revving engine, a roots or twin screw is usually a great solution as it has more more torque down in the revs where needed and still allow some nice power up top. Just look at the katana's dyno graph. Can you see how nice and flat the torque curve is? That tells me the roots is perfect for the 2zz. I would, however, like to have a twin screw option...

[drchris1]

Oh, man -

There is a delay on the ECU reflash for my Katana supercharger which is being installed. Now it might be another week! This waiting feels like forever.

But there are rumors that it might have a little more horsepower than the 243 promised. Only rumors, though.

[Randy Chase]

Originally Posted by drchris1

Please note that the Exige SC powers the car to 219hp, I think, whereas the S111 SC powers the car to 243. This is also a better boost than the new '08 Elise SC is supposed to have (219 also, I believe).

I am a bit confused, are you mixing together crank vs wheel hp?

From my admittedly limited understanding, the 219hp is wheel horse power.

Sector's site says the Katana adds 53whp to 215.9whp.
http://www.sector111.com/images/prod...arger/back.gif

Are you adding the 53 to the 190hp to get to 243hp? I believe the stock Elise wheel hp is lower than that and 190 refered to crank horsepower. My car dynoed at 166whp when new.

Or am I confused?

p.s. Now I am up to 231wheelhp using the LG ASP SC kit with EFI.

[Canyonball]

Hmmm, if money were no issue, I think I'd go FF hands-down.

The fact that makes S111's Katana so attractive to me is the price. I also drive a lot and I know my JR S/C on my integra running 9-10lbs of boost for 80,000+ miles was very reliable. I did absolutely HATE when the S/C belts would snap at inopportune moments in the canyons and what not. Then having a limp motor with a S/C blocking intake pressure driving home until replacement of belt. Of course I didn't always check the belt. Usually replaced every oil change. That wouldn't be an issue if I kept a better eye on the belt.

I do also like the whine of a blower and an S/C definately has streetable power (not that the FF doesn't).

For me it comes down to price. I would like as much hp as possible, but the budget usually restricts that number. The S111 SC is half the price of the FF275, not to mention it's on it's way to CARB approval...

[ArticDream]

Originally Posted by Canyonball

Of course I didn't always check the belt. Usually replaced every oil change. That wouldn't be an issue if I kept a better eye on the belt.

Change the belt every oil change , that's news to me.
How long does it take to do that? How much are belts, and where do we get them? Hmmm How much life were you getting out of your belts?