Hass thread

[evomind]

i must say....
of all the chat boards ive been on ive never seen a thread closed due to "possible legal action." yeah, ive heard the spiel that "some lawyer says to close the thread...." or whatever and its closed because randy is afraid of some liability issue.
randy/et is liable for what exactly? what legal basis is there for closing a thread? because some lawyer said so? whose lawyer? hell, if ya wanted u can get a lawyer to tell anyone anything, that doesnt mean there is legal grounds or basis. just as long as u pay them. unless chase was wrenching on scottys car i dont see the liability. if so i missed that.
b4 everyone jumps on me, nevermind im not a principle in any of this but it wouldnt be the first time, im just posting because i dont understand. also im not questioning this to beat someone up, just that ive never seen this b4.
as far the thread "getting out of hand....hell, this is the tamest car board outside of the ford escape board.

i don t understand why folks wanna tank threads they dont like. if ya dont like it or dont wanna read it why keep posting in it? theres a million threads here i think are silly or pointless. i choose not to read those or post in them. but i dont suggest tanking threads because I dont find them useful. i dont have that sense of thinking im overly self important i guess. to me threads are like products. if its a bs thread and no one is interested, theyll just quietly die off anyway.

and come on.....to tell someone if they dont like the rules to start their own board is a cop out. pres bush says if u dont like how hes running things just shut up and come next election u run for pres. chat boards are abt discussions etc and that line of thinking is very narrow.
i always thought chat boards were just that. some ppl seem to take themselves way too seriously.
just my "o2," thanks for listening.

[scottyb]

Mr. Hass couldn't take the heat nor face the truth. So he had his lawyer contact Randy. Surprisingly, I wasn't contacted. What does that say?

[andykeck]

The liability here is that anybody can sue anybody else for anything. Even a total joke lawsuit costs money and time to make it go away. So one of the parties in this situation has lawyered up and that lawyer has made some requests. Randy could ignore those requests and probably nothing would happen. Probably. But what if it went farther than that? Then Randy's completely financially exposed. Why would we ask him to take that risk?

[Randy Chase]

Originally Posted by evomind

i must say....
of all the chat boards ive been on ive never seen a thread closed due to "possible legal action."

Oh I have. I can name a number of forums. And in many cases, the threads just go away. If you hang out with forum owners, you hear stories. Some are pretty bad. Your knowing of these cases or not does not change anything. They do exist. Forum owners have some exposure.

And it does not matter if someone has a case. You still have to defend yourself against it. And since I am invested in the outcome of this on either side, why should I do that?

as far the thread "getting out of hand....hell, this is the tamest car board outside of the ford escape board.

And I intend on keeping it that way. That is not a good reason to lighten up.

Look, no matter what, a number of people will not be happy. So what? A lot of people were not happy we let the other thread happen. A number of people (a lot actually) have PMed me asking me to stop all of these threads or ban people. No matter what... some people will not be happy. I can only follow my own vision and I will continue to do so. If it works, it works. If not, there are competing forums with other visions of how things should operate.

I only ask that should someone agree to participate on this forum, that they do not continually question my decisions or my vision.

[Greg]

Originally Posted by Randy Chase

Note, the odd thing about dick wrestling?

There are no winners.

How about dick shooting? The man settles his fights with GUNS... At 2 paces...

[hatchy]

Randy, why can't you use the Lotus money on your legal defense? Or are you saving it for your new house in the Hamptons?

[Randy Chase]

Originally Posted by evomind

and come on.....to tell someone if they dont like the rules to start their own board is a cop out. pres bush says if u dont like how hes running things just shut up and come next election u run for pres. chat boards are abt discussions etc and that line of thinking is very narrow.
i always thought chat boards were just that. some ppl seem to take themselves way too seriously.

I disagree. Running a forum is not the same as being president. This is not a publicly elected position, nor are the rules voted upon.

Basically this is my forum. And if someone wants to come on to my forum and tell me I am full of crap, I will ask them to leave. If they want to tell me that my decisions are wrong, and they want to tell me that over and over in numerous threads, I will ask them to leave.

If they are so certain about the proper way to run a forum should be, then I think it is entirely appropriate to suggest they run their own forum then.

And its a cop out to suggest that some people take themselves too seriously. Would you suggest that none of this matters?

[Randy Chase]

Originally Posted by hatchy

Randy, why can't you use the Lotus money on your legal defense? Or are you saving it for your new house in the Hamptons?

When you see that new Exige S in my driveway...everything will make sense.

[darwid]

I've been to many forums over the years, and a lot of threads get wiped out for less serious reason than being contacted by an attorney. Some other forums just take out your thread because they feel like removing it and if you argue about getting an explanation you get banned pretty fast. So one needs to realize that a forum is privately owned and the owner ultimately rules it, like it or not that's the way it is. One more thing that one needs to realize is that etalk is lot more fairly moderated than a lot of forums (actually I've never seen such a fairly moderated forum). Personally I want to say thanks Randy for offering us this forum for free with minimal censorship.

[EliseKid]

Randy, if I owned this forum the ban button would be worn out by now. (If that's possible.)

I'm surprised by your self control.

[MikeW]

Originally Posted by evomind

i must say....
of all the chat boards ive been on ive never seen a thread closed due to "possible legal action." yeah, ive heard the spiel that "some lawyer says to close the thread...." or whatever and its closed because randy is afraid of some liability issue.
randy/et is liable for what exactly? what legal basis is there for closing a thread? because some lawyer said so? whose lawyer? hell, if ya wanted u can get a lawyer to tell anyone anything, that doesnt mean there is legal grounds or basis. just as long as u pay them. unless chase was wrenching on scottys car i dont see the liability. if so i missed that.
b4 everyone jumps on me, nevermind im not a principle in any of this but it wouldnt be the first time, im just posting because i dont understand. also im not questioning this to beat someone up, just that ive never seen this b4.
as far the thread "getting out of hand....hell, this is the tamest car board outside of the ford escape board.

i don t understand why folks wanna tank threads they dont like. if ya dont like it or dont wanna read it why keep posting in it? theres a million threads here i think are silly or pointless. i choose not to read those or post in them. but i dont suggest tanking threads because I dont find them useful. i dont have that sense of thinking im overly self important i guess. to me threads are like products. if its a bs thread and no one is interested, theyll just quietly die off anyway.

and come on.....to tell someone if they dont like the rules to start their own board is a cop out. pres bush says if u dont like how hes running things just shut up and come next election u run for pres. chat boards are abt discussions etc and that line of thinking is very narrow.
i always thought chat boards were just that. some ppl seem to take themselves way too seriously.
just my "o2," thanks for listening.

I'm not blaming Randy for being concerned over possible lawsuits. I'm offering ,however, to put this in a perspective. This forum has had numerous posts from time to time about things that are negative, and potentially libelous about Lotus, other car manufacturers, component manufacturers and service providers. One might say horrible things about Goodyear tires, a TV set, a Lotus dealer or any number of things. These entities have far more financial ability to sue, if so desired, than most of the individuals argueing here. These things take place constantly on ALL forums. That said, anyone Can file a suit, no matter how frivolous. Example: A man driving his bosses work truck came home for lunch and crashed into his own personal vehicle. He tried to sue his boss for his own negligent driving. I'm sure it took, at the minimum, some time for his boss to go to court. The suit was thrown out. My father had several suits in his lifetime. I well understand the need for insurance and concern. It's not like a newspaper editorializing something harmful to a person or corporation. I would say that this forum has limited liability in these manners as long as the moderators and administrators do not take sides or show bias. One form would be censoring the posts of one individual over another. It's just like giving political candidates equal time. If Randy feels he wishes to protect what he has worked for by censoring or closing threads, I respect that. I avoided many potential risks during my 28 years in business. I can offer a suggestion that Randy may wish to consider. He could request in writing a hold harmless agreement to be signed by the 2 main parties concerned if they wish to post ANYTHING that could be construed relevant to the ongoing issues. If you want to go to further, the rules for posting should state that by doing so, members agree to hold Elisetalk harmless for the consequences of their posted messages or any replies from another member. It's probably not a bad idea. It may have been already there when I joined as a member, I don't remember. I run things like that by a lawyer and my insurance company from time to time. Then everyone's happy and I sleep better. I wish the best for Randy and I'm sure he does,t want to have to be a lawyer just to have the forum. I also hope those in this dispute find a way to settle this matter that's best for everyone. Any above all, I hope everyone learns something from this. I would offer a suggest that might be good advice for many of us: When you read something you disagree with, resist the urge to hit the keys and type an instant reply. You'll look a lot wiser, and be taken more seriously if your're not filling the forum up with emotional replys. If it's important, make a couple of drafts and sit on it a while. You may find you wish to change your content before it gets posted, it's not possible after everyone's read it. And I know ther's a lot of people who seem to have a life revolving around waiting to find the most insignificant thing to argue about, just for the sake of agueing,and diving right in on the keys. One more thing for those who feel they have had a loss in this matter: You might not believe this now but you may look back on this one day and say this was a cheap lesson. I've learned a few myself. Sometimes the ones that hurt a little are the best ones.

[Randy Chase]

All good advice.

One more to add to it.

White space. It is your friend.



Seriously, thanks.

[mikelr]

Originally Posted by qball

Can I use Megasquirt on my Elise?

Isn't that an advanced Dick Wrestling technique?

[008]

As second chair to Randy's legal counsel, I can tell you that he has way too much on his plate right now to open himself to further liability, i.e the underground dick fight clubs, secret ritualistic midnight rendezvous with other forum owners, figuring out how to ban stan but still seem fair, setting up offshore accounts for his Lotus money, the list goes on and on.

[kyohan03]

Originally Posted by scottyb

Otherwise it could be viewed that the owner of this board is in collusion with Mr. Hass and is suppressing any and all information that shows Mr. Hass in a negative way.

For crying out loud, you had the chance and took it, MANY times during that thread, other threads, and now this one to make your case against Hass.

Fine! EVERYBODY heard.....15 times already. You cited folks to back you up, a BUNCH of times. We only needed to hear it once, maybe twice...but that horse wasn't just beaten to death, it was pureed.

You stated your problems, your beefs, cited your documentation. THEN you got on to personal attacks, and received some as well.

The thread went on WAY beyond what was necessary for you to air your beefs, 'eductate the greater Lotus community' about your experience, and for Hass to respond.

If you feel THAT strongly about it, and if some new guy named Gaddock feels THAT strongly about it, then this mess is where is should be. In the hands of the lawyers.

And if that's where it is, good luck to you all.

[iwilson]

End of the day this is Randy's baby. It's not a democracy if I was in his shoes I'd do the same thing in a split second. Don't like it find another forum there are millions out there.

If you missed out on the action, then you obviously have a life outside of the internet. Personally I got the lot despite the time difference, the realisation I don't have life has hit me pretty bad

[kyohan03]

Originally Posted by scottyb

Mr. Hass couldn't take the heat nor face the truth. So he had his lawyer contact Randy. Surprisingly, I wasn't contacted. What does that say?

Ummm...that you'll soon be served?

[slaughtr]

Is it just me, or does the scottyb vs. Hass fight parallel the Israeli vs. Lebanon fight? Or is it just the global warming heat wave?
Why don't we get back to talking about how cool our cars are.

[Reddirt14]

I personally can side with Randy on his decision. Who knows whether someone could succeed in a lawsuit that would include Randy. But the point is that it is incredibly easy to file a lawsuit and if you are going to sue another party anyway (i.e. Hass or ScottyB) then including someone like Randy, cost only a marginal amount more. BUT for Randy, that means a lot of expense in defending a suit (even if it is frivolous). Personally (not an legal opinion), I think stopping the discussion on his public forum is not a bad idea. I assume record retention is not a bad idea, but I haven't looked into the legal requirements around that.

If you guys want to indulge in the "juicy" stuff, you can go to another forum that allows it or start your own forum. Randy isn't the only show in town.

ScottyB: I think your general information was informative to the Elise community. As a potential buyer of a Turbo/Supercharger kit, I very much like to know the pitfalls and user feedback. But you have to be really careful of the slander issue. Someone has requested a copy of all the communication that has occured. Obviously Haas may be facing a substantial blow to his business from this public announcement of your problems. In addition to the loss of your car you may be facing the need to defend a potential lawsuit.

Haas: You also need to watch what you say in public forums. If I'm not mistaken, that discussion can be presented as evidence in court. Although from the limited discussion I saw, your exposure seems to be less from a slander perspective.

In the end, almost everyone else summarized it quite well. You guys need to speak and figure out a solution to your problems. Court actions are expensive and why spend all the money with attorneys for the satisfaction of "duking it out" in a controlled environment.

[evomind]

Originally Posted by MikeW

I'm not blaming Randy for being concerned over possible lawsuits. I'm offering ,however, to put this in a perspective. This forum has had numerous posts from time to time about things that are negative, and potentially libelous about Lotus, other car manufacturers, component manufacturers and service providers. One might say horrible things about Goodyear tires, a TV set, a Lotus dealer or any number of things. These entities have far more financial ability to sue, if so desired, than most of the individuals argueing here. These things take place constantly on ALL forums. That said, anyone Can file a suit, no matter how frivolous. Example: A man driving his bosses work truck came home for lunch and crashed into his own personal vehicle. He tried to sue his boss for his own negligent driving. I'm sure it took, at the minimum, some time for his boss to go to court. The suit was thrown out. My father had several suits in his lifetime. I well understand the need for insurance and concern. It's not like a newspaper editorializing something harmful to a person or corporation. I would say that this forum has limited liability in these manners as long as the moderators and administrators do not take sides or show bias. One form would be censoring the posts of one individual over another. It's just like giving political candidates equal time. If Randy feels he wishes to protect what he has worked for by censoring or closing threads, I respect that. I avoided many potential risks during my 28 years in business. I can offer a suggestion that Randy may wish to consider. He could request in writing a hold harmless agreement to be signed by the 2 main parties concerned if they wish to post ANYTHING that could be construed relevant to the ongoing issues. If you want to go to further, the rules for posting should state that by doing so, members agree to hold Elisetalk harmless for the consequences of their posted messages or any replies from another member. It's probably not a bad idea. It may have been already there when I joined as a member, I don't remember. I run things like that by a lawyer and my insurance company from time to time. Then everyone's happy and I sleep better. I wish the best for Randy and I'm sure he does,t want to have to be a lawyer just to have the forum. I also hope those in this dispute find a way to settle this matter that's best for everyone. Any above all, I hope everyone learns something from this. I would offer a suggest that might be good advice for many of us: When you read something you disagree with, resist the urge to hit the keys and type an instant reply. You'll look a lot wiser, and be taken more seriously if your're not filling the forum up with emotional replys. If it's important, make a couple of drafts and sit on it a while. You may find you wish to change your content before it gets posted, it's not possible after everyone's read it. And I know ther's a lot of people who seem to have a life revolving around waiting to find the most insignificant thing to argue about, just for the sake of agueing,and diving right in on the keys. One more thing for those who feel they have had a loss in this matter: You might not believe this now but you may look back on this one day and say this was a cheap lesson. I've learned a few myself. Sometimes the ones that hurt a little are the best ones.

mike w.,
thanks for some clarification. i for one dont talk to forum owners abt possible litigations and didnt know forums and their owners are sued so much.
it seems u understood the gist of my post.....not so much as to "question randy," or "second guess" randy, or usurp his authority or bash him personally, but to get educated on how to close a thread. hmmm....so for 50 or 100 bucks i can have my lawyer close down a thread.. jk. no seriously, thanks for the good response to my question.