The "How do I improve my shift feel" thread? - LotusTalk

Frank Amoroso · 10-07-2009, 06:29 AM

Greetings all,

I did some searching to see if a similar, all inclusive shift feel improvement thread already existed, but I couldn't find anything, so here goes...

My biggest gripe with my '05 Elise is the shift feel. I think the car is so good and so precise in so many ways that the shift feel is incongruous. I love all the adjustabilty that can be found in the pedal box and in the suspension (the ability to adjust camber w/o affecting toe rocks!), but that damned shifter feel... it blows.

So, I've done a a couple things to my car in an attempt to improve the feel:

Stan's Shifter mod and a Forced Fed engine dampener. I also have a S111 Re-enforcer sitting on a shelf waiting to be installed, but I don't expect that to have a dramatic positive effect over and above the Stan Shifter mod, but it's cheap and easy so I'm planning on going with it to cover as many bases as possible.

So here's my question, what else should one consider in the quest to achieve shifting nirvana?

I understand that as a mid-engined vehicle with a cable shifted tranny that the feel will never approach that of, say, a 911, but I want some more improvement.

So with this being said, I wanted to get thoughts on some of the other related items that are currently available and using them in conjunction with what I already have / one another:

1) Firmer Engine mounts
2) LETSLA Shift kit
3) SSC Shift Cable

Anything else?

I'm thinking about going with S111 Track Mounts (I only drive my Elise on the street to / from track events). Which I also think would obviate the need for the FF dampener so I would take it off. I'm also thinking about going with the SSC shift cable.

I'm not thinking about doing the LETSLA as the shifter throws don't bother me anywhere near as much as the shifter feel does. This being said, if the LETSLA significantly improves the feel too, I'd consider it.

What do y'all think?

Thanks!

kestrel74 · 10-07-2009, 06:37 AM

Didja change to Redline MT-90 ?

apk919 · 10-07-2009, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kestrel74

Didja change to Redline MT-90 ?

+1

Motul Gear 300 is a good choice too.

Gregbj8 · 10-07-2009, 07:15 AM

I did the Stan mod and the Sector plate first. Together they offered about 10% improvement in precision and feel. Next I did the LETSLA and am very happy with it. The throws are shorter (I installed it set up as shipped), it is much more precise and has a much better feel. The improvement with LETSLA is significant and well worth the time and money.

RichardNHCooper · 10-07-2009, 07:17 AM

I have had the LETSLA fitted for about 6 months and it is fantastic and the backup from Troy can't be faulted. It makes a dramatic improvement even without the SSC cable upgrade. It takes a little patience to adjust it properly and you don't have to have it as a short shifter. The kit does include a gearlever support stabilizer.
On a side note I have just fitted the FF engine damper because I did not want any extra vibration as this is my daily drive. Just to stabilize the torque from the motor and protect the OEM engine mounts. It works great. It has made no difference to shifting as the cables are mounted rigidly to the transmission and move as the engine moves anyway. My car has a bit of poke!

YouTube - Elise VF stage 1 quarter mile

Frank Amoroso · 10-07-2009, 12:07 PM

Thanks guys. This is just the feedback I was looking for.

Looks like I'm headed towards some Redline and a Letsla, perhaps the cable too at some point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardNHCooper

I have just fitted the FF engine damper because I did not want any extra vibration as this is my daily drive. Just to stabilize the torque from the motor and protect the OEM engine mounts. It works great. It has made no difference to shifting as the cables are mounted rigidly to the transmission and move as the engine moves anyway.

So the FF dampener and / or more rigid mounts won't affect shift quality then?

ads_green · 10-07-2009, 01:06 PM

The letsla is great but as above - the more paitnce you have setting up the more you'll get out of it. I have stronger mounts too and this helps also.

The SSC cables are probably good too but it's considerably more effort to fit than the letsla and engine mounts.

milehitom · 10-07-2009, 01:30 PM

Frank,

On my 05 Elise, it did take awhile to adjust my LETSLA juuuust right (I'm sure every one of our cars has some idiosyncracies in the build quality that require individual tweaking), but it's been rock-solid for 4,000 miles since then. That and the Stan mod have made a world of difference.

I might switch to Motul or Redline, but I don't really feel a need for it. I certainly felt a need for improvement when using the original shifter.

They've installed a few at Ferrari of Denver, so if you don't feel like doing it yourself, they have the know-how.

Tom

FIL · 10-31-2009, 07:07 PM

I have manly's engine mounts, LETSLA, clutch, and flywheel installed all at the same time. The shift feel is much improved. I am still considering a DIY version of the S111 reinforcer, but I'm not sure how much improvement it would provide.

R'elise Me · 10-31-2009, 10:54 PM

My experience with LETSLA was disappointing, really. I could go into a diatribe on misengineering, but I'll spare the good man. He's trying hard. I'll give him that.

The person to talk to is Allen at LPL. He rebuilt the OEM on several cars that I know of with rod ends, special welds, etc My tranny hasn't missed a shift yet. Feels solid and precise. And cheaper than the LETSLA. He also has some secret sauce for the fluid that works real well too. Take my word for it - WAY better than LETSLA.

Conrad · 11-01-2009, 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Amoroso

I understand that as a mid-engined vehicle with a cable shifted tranny that the feel will never approach that of, say, a 911,

Porsche gearbox is cable operated, and engine is even further back. In fact on the 996 series they had a problem with people blowing engines on track in fast corners (cant remember if left or right, but wasnt both) going from fith into second as opposed to fourth, sound familiar

On my 2-eleven i put the lotus sport engine mounts and its better, not perfect but better.

Appleseed · 11-01-2009, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R'elise Me

My experience with LETSLA was disappointing, really. I could go into a diatribe on misengineering, but I'll spare the good man. He's trying hard. I'll give him that.

The person to talk to is Allen at LPL. He rebuilt the OEM on several cars that I know of with rod ends, special welds, etc My tranny hasn't missed a shift yet. Feels solid and precise. And cheaper than the LETSLA. He also has some secret sauce for the fluid that works real well too. Take my word for it - WAY better than LETSLA.

LPL? Is it Lotus of something?

Frank Amoroso · 11-06-2009, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Conrad

Porsche gearbox is cable operated, and engine is even further back. In fact on the 996 series they had a problem with people blowing engines on track in fast corners (cant remember if left or right, but wasnt both) going from fith into second as opposed to fourth, sound familiar

On my 2-eleven i put the lotus sport engine mounts and its better, not perfect but better.

Sorry Conrad, I was referring to the older shool 911s, sans cable shifters.

So, I'm going to go with some Redline MT-90. How much will I need?

EDIT: Duh, found it, Uberpost is your friend...

Transmission Fluid
DIY Transmission Fluid change.
Redline MT-90 (available online) seems most popular. Redline MTL isn't.
Mobil1 75W90 is more available & a few are using Motul; do a search for pros/cons.
Torque for the fill/drain plugs are 29 lb-ft.
Requires approx. 2.4 qts.
Washers are the same as 05 Celica GTS (90430-18008)

Lotusmotion · 11-06-2009, 08:52 AM

Buy three quarts, as the tranny will require about two and one-half. Also, you might consider getting a fluid transfer pump to make getting the new fluid in an easy task.

I recommend something like this:

Performance Tool W1145 - Performance Tool Fluid Transfer Pumps - Overview - SummitRacing.com

ads_green · 11-06-2009, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardNHCooper

On a side note I have just fitted the FF engine damper because I did not want any extra vibration as this is my daily drive. Just to stabilize the torque from the motor and protect the OEM engine mounts. It works great. It has made no difference to shifting as the cables are mounted rigidly to the transmission and move as the engine moves anyway.

I think that the fact the cables are mounted to the engine does make a difference when the engine moves. the cables go through a 180 degree bend to get to the gearbox and any engine rotation is going to affect the cable. It's like a bicycle brake cable - if you bend the cable the inner metal cable moves relative to the outer sheath. Given the amount you adjust the linkage by to get it to line up and by how much the stock engine mounts allow the engine to move it wouldn't surprise me if it's enough to throw out a gearchange.

MulhollandMotors · 11-06-2009, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Appleseed

LPL? Is it Lotus of something?

+1 for Allen and The LPL (Lotus Propulsion Labs). His modification and reinforcement of the factory shifter assembly is how it should have been from the factory. Allen is a master of his craft, very particular with the details. Check out his site for more info

What's happening at the lab...

Conan · 11-06-2009, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MulhollandMotors

+1 for Allen and The LPL (Lotus Propulsion Labs). His modification and reinforcement of the factory shifter assembly is how it should have been from the factory. Allen is a master of his craft, very particular with the details. Check out his site for more info

What's happening at the lab...

Holy hell! Where are those bearings from and what split one??

10-07-2009, 06:29 AM	#1 (permalink)
Frank Amoroso Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Boulder. CO Posts: 358	The "How do I improve my shift feel" thread? Greetings all, I did some searching to see if a similar, all inclusive shift feel improvement thread already existed, but I couldn't find anything, so here goes... My biggest gripe with my '05 Elise is the shift feel. I think the car is so good and so precise in so many ways that the shift feel is incongruous. I love all the adjustabilty that can be found in the pedal box and in the suspension (the ability to adjust camber w/o affecting toe rocks!), but that damned shifter feel... it blows. So, I've done a a couple things to my car in an attempt to improve the feel: Stan's Shifter mod and a Forced Fed engine dampener. I also have a S111 Re-enforcer sitting on a shelf waiting to be installed, but I don't expect that to have a dramatic positive effect over and above the Stan Shifter mod, but it's cheap and easy so I'm planning on going with it to cover as many bases as possible. So here's my question, what else should one consider in the quest to achieve shifting nirvana? I understand that as a mid-engined vehicle with a cable shifted tranny that the feel will never approach that of, say, a 911, but I want some more improvement. So with this being said, I wanted to get thoughts on some of the other related items that are currently available and using them in conjunction with what I already have / one another: 1) Firmer Engine mounts 2) LETSLA Shift kit 3) SSC Shift Cable Anything else? I'm thinking about going with S111 Track Mounts (I only drive my Elise on the street to / from track events). Which I also think would obviate the need for the FF dampener so I would take it off. I'm also thinking about going with the SSC shift cable. I'm not thinking about doing the LETSLA as the shifter throws don't bother me anywhere near as much as the shifter feel does. This being said, if the LETSLA significantly improves the feel too, I'd consider it. What do y'all think? Thanks! __________________ Frank Amoroso Whatever Press Vehicle(s) I'm driving this week www.twitter.com/famoroso Ever take a risk? A real risk? The kind of risk that makes you feel alive? It's... spectacular, isn't it?

10-07-2009, 06:37 AM	#2 (permalink)
kestrel74 G-200 Driver Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: North of Detroit; Watkins Glen, NY Posts: 9,313	Didja change to Redline MT-90 ? __________________ 74 Europa Zetec TC Special 3614R Elise #2292 / Chrome Orange !! / Starshield / Nitron Sport SA / RTDbrace / Uprights machined / Down Low rails / ChaseCam / V1 / SS lines w/ R4-S "My daily driver does .85 Mach" " I started flying when Sex was safe and Hang Gliding was dangerous " BUY My Europa ! http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f94/...pa-sale-43829/

10-31-2009, 07:07 PM	#9 (permalink)
FIL Serial Thrilla Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 236	I have manly's engine mounts, LETSLA, clutch, and flywheel installed all at the same time. The shift feel is much improved. I am still considering a DIY version of the S111 reinforcer, but I'm not sure how much improvement it would provide. __________________ 05' Elise - BWR supercharger, Quaife LSD, Nitron Race Triple Adjustable, LETSLA, Larini Decat, Larini Exhuast, ACT HDSS, Fidanza flywheel, V2 Fuel Tank, V2 Steering Arms, BWR sway bar, desnorkled, ForcedFed CF splitter, Manly's engine mounts, S111 harness bar, Schroth harness w/ S111 seat grommets, Oil Drain Valve, Painted Black Diffuser, Braille battery, Custom Battery Switch 05' Corvette - Z51 Convertible - 630hp 6.6L [DON'T YOU JUDGE ME!!!] (SOLD!)

10-31-2009, 10:54 PM	#10 (permalink)
R'elise Me My other car's a mtn bike Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Venice CA Posts: 1,371	My experience with LETSLA was disappointing, really. I could go into a diatribe on misengineering, but I'll spare the good man. He's trying hard. I'll give him that. The person to talk to is Allen at LPL. He rebuilt the OEM on several cars that I know of with rod ends, special welds, etc My tranny hasn't missed a shift yet. Feels solid and precise. And cheaper than the LETSLA. He also has some secret sauce for the fluid that works real well too. Take my word for it - WAY better than LETSLA. __________________ Sometimes you have to go in circles to move forward. 05 Elise NA 1750 lbs w/ full cage, fuel cell, aero, 173 whp - Colin would be proud. 2008 LR3 HSE 2005 Mini S Convertible If I'd thought that one day ALL my cars would be British, I'd have laughed at myself!

11-06-2009, 08:52 AM	#14 (permalink)
Lotusmotion Keep it simple and real Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Southern California Posts: 926	Buy three quarts, as the tranny will require about two and one-half. Also, you might consider getting a fluid transfer pump to make getting the new fluid in an easy task. I recommend something like this: Performance Tool W1145 - Performance Tool Fluid Transfer Pumps - Overview - SummitRacing.com __________________ '06 Exige - Ph. Black/Touring/Track/LSD/TC/SS. Mods: corner balanced - RTD brace - Manly's inserts - decambered - Pagid Blacks - Motul fluid - tow hooks - Schroth belts - extinguisher - AIM timer - Green Filter - Larini - oil temp & pressure gauges - AO48s & Rotas on track - T1Rs & OEM wheels on street - rear camera & monitor - Stebel horn - speakers upgraded, sub & iPod controller - DRL disable switch - aux. fuse panel - sill pockets - leather console - Bootie - roof scoop functional.

10-07-2009, 07:15 AM	#4 (permalink)
Gregbj8 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Lakeland, FL Posts: 39	I did the Stan mod and the Sector plate first. Together they offered about 10% improvement in precision and feel. Next I did the LETSLA and am very happy with it. The throws are shorter (I installed it set up as shipped), it is much more precise and has a much better feel. The improvement with LETSLA is significant and well worth the time and money.

10-07-2009, 01:06 PM	#7 (permalink)
ads_green Registered User Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 366	The letsla is great but as above - the more paitnce you have setting up the more you'll get out of it. I have stronger mounts too and this helps also. The SSC cables are probably good too but it's considerably more effort to fit than the letsla and engine mounts.

10-07-2009, 01:30 PM	#8 (permalink)
milehitom Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 3,146	Frank, On my 05 Elise, it did take awhile to adjust my LETSLA juuuust right (I'm sure every one of our cars has some idiosyncracies in the build quality that require individual tweaking), but it's been rock-solid for 4,000 miles since then. That and the Stan mod have made a world of difference. I might switch to Motul or Redline, but I don't really feel a need for it. I certainly felt a need for improvement when using the original shifter. They've installed a few at Ferrari of Denver, so if you don't feel like doing it yourself, they have the know-how. Tom

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode