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Old 08-21-2007, 03:02 AM   #1 (permalink)
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K-Series modifications

hi guys
i am new to this forum. I am from Austria in Europa and run a Elise mit a K-Series 1,8 L Engine. The complete upper part is modified and engine has an output of 200 bhp and 192Nm Torque.
I am very keen to modify the lower part of the engine this year. I would like to know which material - products you guys in the states use in this case.
Pistons, conrods, crankshaft
I am looking for 230 bhp and 8500 rpm at the end of the day.
thks for info and keep on
stefan
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Old 08-21-2007, 04:53 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Scholar block
Steel crank & rods, Forged pistons.
Emerald ECU

Don't recommend this spec unless you are racing. K-series at this level & above need managing & don't make good rd cars.

Not knocking our friends over the pond but the k-series experts are in the UK speak to Dave Andrews @ http://www.dvapower.com/ he's definitely one of the best & has a great reputation.
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Old 08-21-2007, 07:57 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by pez View Post
Scholar block
Steel crank & rods, Forged pistons.
Emerald ECU

Don't recommend this spec unless you are racing. K-series at this level & above need managing & don't make good rd cars.

Not knocking our friends over the pond but the k-series experts are in the UK speak to Dave Andrews @ http://www.dvapower.com/ he's definitely one of the best & has a great reputation.
thank you - i mainly use the car of racing. I have an "mbe motor contorl unit" as my cars has also individual throttle bodies...
i am amare that the piston rings need to be changes every 3000 miles and the car need maintance....
ok thank you i will ask dave andrews
best regards
stefan
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Old 08-21-2007, 03:01 PM   #4 (permalink)
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sometimes I wish Lotus still kept K-series motor for US.
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Old 08-21-2007, 04:03 PM   #5 (permalink)
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sometimes I wish Lotus still kept K-series motor for US.
I am not sure - but I would suspect the rover would be better for autocross due to lighter weight and better torque curve.
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Old 08-21-2007, 04:15 PM   #6 (permalink)
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My K is an ex-cadena MS Exige - 1.8 Scholar @ 230HP.
Racing she runs to 8.5K no problem.
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Old 09-12-2007, 08:40 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Hi bros, I am on the lowest **** of K series engine, I wonder what can be done to make the engine as good as you people. What must I change the internal of the car?
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Old 09-14-2007, 04:53 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Hi bros, I am on the lowest **** of K series engine, I wonder what can be done to make the engine as good as you people. What must I change (to the <sic>) the internal of the car?
Contact (in England):
DVA
Sabreheads
Emerald
Jenvey
(and others)

170 HP is doable easily - more HP requires money or a K20A.
For K20A DIY Try:
Sun international
Joe McCarthy

The other K20A providers are a only an 'install by provider' and not availale in your area.
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Old 09-14-2007, 09:28 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by holmz View Post
Contact (in England):
DVA
Sabreheads
Emerald
Jenvey
(and others)

170 HP is doable easily - more HP requires money or a K20A.
For K20A DIY Try:
Sun international
Joe McCarthy

The other K20A providers are a only an 'install by provider' and not availale in your area.

What do i need to change in order to achieve 170bhp? Any website that I can find the parts to do up the internal? Thanks.

K20 is too much for me... I afraid of breaking the law in our country...
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Old 09-14-2007, 10:22 AM   #10 (permalink)
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For N/A engine, it is not a lot of thing to do:

Working at the bottom is typically to improve the reliability, the only place to find power is reducing the weight of the piston and the connection rod, and increase the compression ration.

Compression ratio wise: increase the compression ratio, but when it is possible, I prefer to use the stock piston, and machine the head to acheive the compression ratio I am looking for, but in this case, you need to re-adjust the cam position using adjustable pulley. Me, I don't really like forged piston except when I don't have the choice. Typically, they are heavier in weight, get too much loose between the piston and the cylinder in teh ring zone. A piston for a N/A don't have the same shape than for a turbo engine. For charged engine, they have more room for thermal expension. If you buy forged piston, try to know if they are really done for NA. If the piston have too much loose, you can create wear on the cylinder wall.

Lighter and more solid conrod are all time welcome. But in US, not a lot of K engine, mainly 2ZZ. I don't think that a lot of US supplier are doing rod for the K.

I suppose that the K crank is forged, ask for better balancing, and better shape of edge to a crankshaft specialist close to your location, and doing racing stuff. If you have a ton of money, light weight and billet made crankshaft is cool, but don't give power, only reliability if the crank is not solid enought. On the old engine, the crank oil passage was very bad designed, not it is a lot better, and I presume that the K is well done. If you have a chance to look a old Renault crank, they have only one oil hole on the conrod, just located before the TDC. On the old V8 american engine, the crank was only casted iron, with only one hole badly located. On a good crank, you have 2 holes on the crank for the connecting rod, and well located apart at 90 deg of the TDC.

Connecting rod bearing is important, you need to find the best quality, typically, an engine is broking right there, the bearing deform, and squeeze the crank, removing the oil film, and create damage.

A light flywheel is cool, but again, in US, not a lot of K engine, probably no US flywheel.

The oil pan is very very important. A good pan for curve is a pan with the bottom a lot larger than the top where it bolts to the engine base. A deep pan is good, but typically no room for. The thing is not just the oil quantity, but where it si located when you are in a curve a 1 g. At 1 g, the oil level will be at 45 degrees, and at 45 deg, do you still have oil at the pump pick-up, that's the question and the answer.

Cooling the oil is critical for the engine life.

One another thing very good to do, if the engine don't have it, it is adding oil jet spraying the piston by underneath. Not easy to do, but, probably the K engine have it.
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Old 09-15-2007, 12:04 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Elise45 View Post
What do i need to change in order to achieve 170bhp? Any website that I can find the parts to do up the internal? Thanks.

K20 is too much for me... I afraid of breaking the law in our country...
http://members.aol.com/DVAPower/
http://www.sabre-heads.co.uk/

From what I understand the 170 limit is that after that point you need to do pistons and other internals.
The head, cams and intake/exhaust along with an ECU gets you to 170. The most common ECU is the emerald http://www.emeraldm3d.com/em_m3dk.html is supposed to be plug-n-play (with respect to the loom).

And a contoversial page...
http://www.austin-rover.co.uk/index....aykseriesf.htm

If your on a budget the DVA-K04 might be a good way to go.

After that the Honka K20A seems to be favored:
Link-up (install - only available in some countries)
http://www.hondaelise.com/

DIY:
http://www.sunspeed.com/kit.html
Joe McCarthy's kit...http://www.prototyperacing.com/k20kit.htm

Personally I am not sure which way to go (K upgrade or K20A), so I am saving up.
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Old 09-15-2007, 11:09 AM   #12 (permalink)
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if someone needs the engine/gearbox side..

I have 5,
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Last edited by choi0706; 09-15-2007 at 11:24 AM.
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Old 09-15-2007, 10:53 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Maybe I am completely wrong, but I think that the original post was for engine K serie supplied by Rover, as OEM engine into the Elise in Europe, and not the K serie engine from Honda...
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Old 09-15-2007, 11:11 PM   #14 (permalink)
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It was but the thread kind of got hijacked into a suggested Honda conversion. The first question was how to get a Rover K to the 230hp level from 200hp reliably and then there was a second gentelman that wanted to know how to get a bone stock Rover K up to the 170bhp level.

Elise45,
To answer your question as to how to get your K up to the 170bhp level. You will mostly need top end work, A set of Piper camshafts (BP270H) which will allow you to retain your hydraulic lifters. A set of vernier pulleys so that the cams can be dialed in properly. A bit of head porting to allow the engine to take advantage of the larger cams. A set of individual throttle bodies (not sure what the power limitations are for the standard manifold).
And last but not least an Emerald ECU to run it all.
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Old 09-16-2007, 06:40 AM   #15 (permalink)
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It was but the thread kind of got hijacked into a suggested Honda conversion. The first question was how to get a Rover K to the 230hp level from 200hp reliably and then there was a second gentelman that wanted to know how to get a bone stock Rover K up to the 170bhp level.

Elise45,
To answer your question as to how to get your K up to the 170bhp level. You will mostly need top end work, A set of Piper camshafts (BP270H) which will allow you to retain your hydraulic lifters. A set of vernier pulleys so that the cams can be dialed in properly. A bit of head porting to allow the engine to take advantage of the larger cams. A set of individual throttle bodies (not sure what the power limitations are for the standard manifold).
And last but not least an Emerald ECU to run it all.
Thanks Bro...
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Old 09-16-2007, 07:31 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Maybe I am completely wrong, but I think that the original post was for engine K serie supplied by Rover, as OEM engine into the Elise in Europe, and not the K serie engine from Honda...
Two Rover K engine and parts sources not listed above are PTP and Minister:

http://www.ptp-ltd.co.uk/shop/produc...subselection=4

and

http://www.minister-power.com/index.htm

PTP supplied the VHPD engines that Lotus installed in the factory-built S1 Elise Sport 190. Minister is the long-time supplier of high-performance K motors (up to 250 bhp) to Caterham Cars. I believe that Minister also supplied the motors for the Elise Motorsport Autobytel race series in the UK.

Last edited by Rich H; 09-17-2007 at 06:55 AM.
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Old 09-16-2007, 05:28 PM   #17 (permalink)
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And for those interested in a DIY honda conversion see this thread on SELOC for converting a rover engined car and this thread on ET about a swap from the toyota to honda
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