Leaded Gas Fuel ?

[ACE51]

Is it ok to run leaded gas in the 2ZZ with a de-cat?

[Frank Amoroso]

In addition to catalytic converters, lead fuel (or fuel additives containing lead) are also detrimental (fatally so) to O2 sensors.

[SweetDaddyD]

Originally Posted by ACE51

Is it ok to run leaded gas in the 2ZZ with a de-cat?

Nope.

[ACE51]

oh man that stinks, its always cheaper at the track + more octane.

[Slipstreamer]

You could, if you're prepared to replace your O2 sensor at ~$50

[Simba]

Originally Posted by ACE51

Is it ok to run leaded gas in the 2ZZ with a de-cat?

Yes, without a cat, in a track environment where you're not using the o2 sensors for anything meaningful for any amount of time.

The lead will slowly kill the sensors and generally make them inaccurate. That is a bad thing cruising on the highway, not so much flogging it on the track.

Most people who run C16 and similar just have a spare set of sensors. One for highway driving, and one to plug the holes when racing.

[fzust]

Unless you are running stupid boost on high compression motor, most leaded gas is overkill. C16, though talked about a great deal is really made for cars running 30+ PSI of boost. I run C12 on my car, which is a much better all-around fuel. It is 108 octane leaded, but has a reid vapor number very similar to pump gas, and very wide evaporation curve, which adds to intake charge cooling. I run about 15psi on top of 11.5:1 compression and up to 28 degrees of timing(burns very slowly). I change my NGK wideband sensors about once/year.

For everyone else VP100, 101, 103 or MS109 are perfectly good unleaded fuels for their less insane lotus applicaiton.

[ACE51]

100 UNleaded it is then. I had a misfire and put some in and it didn't happen again, could have been bad 93 gas though.

I like the way the 100 smells

[25psi_Elise_Killer]

Do you mean 100 unleaded? I never heard of 100 leaded...

[ACE51]

^yes I meant unleaded!

[fzust]

Originally Posted by 25psi_Elise_Killer

Do you mean 100 unleaded? I never heard of 100 leaded...

To hijack a bit, have you ever found a race-grade E85? My fear with E85 is the lack of consistency. If SCCA goes to unleaded only, this will be my approach.

[ACE51]

hijack away I'm done!

I thought E85 meant 85% of 89 octane and 15% eth?

[kverges]

Fred, you say you run leaded and only need to replace the WBO2 once a year. How much engine running time is that?

I have stuck with no-lead race fuel in my race and track cars, and I put between 30-100 hours running time per year.

Thanks

[fzust]

Probably 50-100 hours. Kris at DRS is who got me started on it. I guess alot of track guys have been using this sensor with good effect for some time. Some of them get 150 hours on it. Mine doesn't seem to go bad, I just replace it by default.

[25psi_Elise_Killer]

Originally Posted by fzust

To hijack a bit, have you ever found a race-grade E85? My fear with E85 is the lack of consistency. If SCCA goes to unleaded only, this will be my approach.

Yes i did find it. Looks like they mix ethanol with their own blend of 100 unleaded since they rate their E85 blend as 112 octane.. You should contact them directly to see if my guess is correct with the type of gas they blend with ethanol
http://www.rockettbrand.com/techsupp...ationSheet.pdf

If you're really concerned about consistency of E85 fuel, you should really get the Zeitronix Ethanol Content Analyzer
ECA

[TRFguy]

Only to add to the conversation, if the topic is now high end Ethanol, you should consider E-98, if you can find it. It is essentially pure ethanol, with 2% other junk to denature it. So the kiddies can't get drunk off it you know It's an amazing fuel, when vaporized through an injector, it gets so cold, you will not even need an intercooler. Not without downsides, your fuel system must be able to handle it, and you'll need some crazy huge injectors. Oh yeah, you can't buy it at a gas pump either. All that aside, for what it is, it's an awesome fuel!

[fzust]

I think the other advantages of E85 is the availability and cost. With the Zeitronix, it looks like I can de-rate the tuning based on content. I have a year to get it sorted out. The rocket brand is probably the BEST solution, but again back spending lots of $$$ on fuel with limited availability....

The Subaru guys use some killer 1000cc injectors with this stuff, with really good duty-cycle range. I'll need to check into...

[25psi_Elise_Killer]

Originally Posted by fzust

I think the other advantages of E85 is the availability and cost. With the Zeitronix, it looks like I can de-rate the tuning based on content. I have a year to get it sorted out. The rocket brand is probably the BEST solution, but again back spending lots of $$$ on fuel with limited availability....

The Subaru guys use some killer 1000cc injectors with this stuff, with really good duty-cycle range. I'll need to check into...

I'm at 85% injector duty cycle on my 1000cc injectors with a STOCK turbo @ 28-30PSI. If i ever go to a modified stock frame turbo or even a larger garett type of turbo, i'll need bigger injectors...

If you find the Ethanol content to be less than ideal, for street driving you can just turn down the boost. If you're racing, i'd recommend you pull some timing and lower the boost. Note, with E85 you can add a TON of timing to the tune.

[25psi_Elise_Killer]

Oh ya, i got a buddy of mine in Tuscon who's daily driving on E85 in his Evo. If you want to chat with him regarding E85, PM me and i'll get you his contact info.

[Kris from DRS]

Originally Posted by fzust

Probably 50-100 hours. Kris at DRS is who got me started on it. I guess alot of track guys have been using this sensor with good effect for some time. Some of them get 150 hours on it. Mine doesn't seem to go bad, I just replace it by default.

we had another customer who used the same type of NGK Lambda in an EP car for 2 seasons, + practice on Fridays before the race, also running leaded fuel. very robust sensors.