Modified Fuel Tanks = Fix Your Fuel Starvation - LotusTalk

shinoo · 06-13-2009, 03:44 PM

For the most part, the Elise/Exige have few real issues on track. Unfortunately fuel starvation is one of the real problems that needs to be addressed. It is a serious condition that has led to blown motors.

We have released our fuel tank solution for this issue. Ralph@V2 is modifying stock fuel tanks with new baffling and trap doors to successfully combat starvation. He has run an Exige S down to 1 gallon of fuel with no issues on slicks. Ralph has been data logging fuel pressure diligently and has discovered that our cars are getting dangerously low even BEFORE the driver feels the cut-out.

A key advantage of our solution is that all of your emissions and safety related parts remain intact. We also clean the failing sealant out of your tank. Our solution fixes the problem at the root - which is the stock baffling. I've posted more pix and info about the mods on our BLOG.

We are charging $650 on a exchange basis. You will send us your tank then we will send you a modified tank. Please call us BEFORE you send your tank. Our # 951-296-6762

Currently we are looking for more fuel tank cores. If you have one you would like to sell us, please contact me.

MattG · 06-13-2009, 04:05 PM

Does the new baffling contain any sort of sealant of its own, or is all the new baffling metallic?

38bfast · 06-13-2009, 04:47 PM

The new baffles are made out of S.S. They fit on the edges about the same as the OE baffle. The OE sealant is not the root cause. The root cause is the design of the baffle itself. I only use a small amount of sealant in the corners.

shinoo · 06-14-2009, 06:10 AM

Here is a pic of the stock baffle.

JungleJim · 06-14-2009, 06:30 AM

I'm just glad there are so many creative and talented individuals and companys willing to engineer all the fixes necessary to make the Elise/Exige live up to it's potenial.

38bfast · 06-14-2009, 06:32 AM

Well now everyone can see the root cause. Those big holes can’t keep the fuel on the LH side with the fuel pump. If you take a hard LH turn all the fuel just goes up and through those big holes and fast. What hasn’t made it over to the RH side is too far away from the fuel pump pick up to make it to the motor. When I first opened up a tank I could not believe this ever made it off the drawing board (ok CAD terminal). As well you can see the adhesive is a very small part of the problem. I would assume that the glue was an attempt to band aid an inadequate design. My opinion anyway. Not to slam Lotus, it's alwasy easy to second guess a current design.

Just a note. At 1G the fuel would be at a 45 degree angle to the bottom of the tank. The higher the Gs the steeper the fuel angle. The stepper the angle the further the fuel gets away from the pump. Now add bumping around on the track. The pump has no change to see any fuel.

If you don't upgrade your system. Keep your tank topped when on the track.

So how do you get such nice pictures of the baffle? Well you just cut the end off the tank

.

deddie · 06-14-2009, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 38bfast

Not to slam Lotus, it's always easy to second guess a current design.

Well I don't have a problem with slamming Lotus. I blew my motor because of their crappy designed fuel tank. If they are trying to build long-term customers, they are not doing a very good job.

slaughtr · 06-14-2009, 09:02 AM

How hard is it to take out the fuel tank?

38bfast · 06-14-2009, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slaughtr

How hard is it to take out the fuel tank?

Basic tools, nothing special.

RoadDad · 06-14-2009, 12:57 PM

Can someone please explain to me how this would be better than a fuel surge tank?

TIA.

MattG · 06-15-2009, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoadDad

Can someone please explain to me how this would be better than a fuel surge tank?

TIA.

Less weight, and fewer potential points of failure (fewer hose connections, I assume, and no surge tank in the loop).

ads_green · 06-15-2009, 08:09 AM

Also no cutting of the fuel lines you have.
Take out old tank then fit new tank.

The fuel surge tank method is probably better at getting consistent fuel pressures but it's still using the stock pump in the tank as a lifter so it'll still have problems getting the fuel out of the tank udner hard cornering. You're then running on whats left in the surge tank. As long as the surge tank is large enough (and slim enough) then they'll be no problems.

For what it's worth the FIA bag tank has zero surge problems and only uses one way baffles and safety foam to do it's job.

RichS · 06-15-2009, 06:51 PM

I was just thinking that foam would be a great way to go.

Shinoo, any chance of using foam?

shinoo · 07-02-2009, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichS

I was just thinking that foam would be a great way to go.

Shinoo, any chance of using foam?

No reason to. Our solution has been run down to 1 gallon with no issues.

We may offer a fuel cell in the near future - for now our V2 tank mod works like a charm and maintains CARB & safety features.

final advocate · 07-02-2009, 11:08 AM

Shinoo,
What is the turnaround time on the swap, and is the $650 all in or are there additional shipping expenses?

shinoo · 07-02-2009, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by final advocate

Shinoo,
What is the turnaround time on the swap, and is the $650 all in or are there additional shipping expenses?

Yes, shipping cost is additional. CA residents will have to pay tax as well. Give us a call and we can provide you a firm #.

gameson · 07-02-2009, 05:10 PM

I know you said that emission part remains intact, BUT does it void the emission warranty from LOTUS because you are modifying a fuel tank? I believe emission warranty is like 6 years?

vyuen · 07-02-2009, 06:33 PM

Doesn't it make more sense to just buy a new fuel tank? I bought one from Eliseparts that is half the weight of the OEM tank and fixes the problem for about the same amount of $$

breinhar · 07-08-2009, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vyuen

Doesn't it make more sense to just buy a new fuel tank? I bought one from Eliseparts that is half the weight of the OEM tank and fixes the problem for about the same amount of $$

Mind sharing some extra information on this? and was it put into a Fed car?

vyuen · 07-09-2009, 03:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by breinhar

Mind sharing some extra information on this? and was it put into a Fed car?

Search for proalloy...or go to www.eliseparts.com and you can see the product. It should fit into a fed car but you can ask them just to be sure.

06-13-2009, 03:44 PM	#1 (permalink)
shinoo Project Nirvana Elise Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Temecula, CA Posts: 2,617	Modified Fuel Tanks = Fix Your Fuel Starvation For the most part, the Elise/Exige have few real issues on track. Unfortunately fuel starvation is one of the real problems that needs to be addressed. It is a serious condition that has led to blown motors. We have released our fuel tank solution for this issue. Ralph@V2 is modifying stock fuel tanks with new baffling and trap doors to successfully combat starvation. He has run an Exige S down to 1 gallon of fuel with no issues on slicks. Ralph has been data logging fuel pressure diligently and has discovered that our cars are getting dangerously low even BEFORE the driver feels the cut-out. A key advantage of our solution is that all of your emissions and safety related parts remain intact. We also clean the failing sealant out of your tank. Our solution fixes the problem at the root - which is the stock baffling. I've posted more pix and info about the mods on our BLOG. We are charging $650 on a exchange basis. You will send us your tank then we will send you a modified tank. *Please call us BEFORE you send your tank. Our # 951-296-6762* Currently we are looking for more fuel tank cores. If you have one you would like to sell us, please contact me. __________________ shinoo sector 111 - tasty bits for your elise & exige

06-13-2009, 04:05 PM	#2 (permalink)
MattG insert clever title here Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Living above the clouds in Colorado Posts: 7,676 Images: 11	Does the new baffling contain any sort of sealant of its own, or is all the new baffling metallic? __________________ '05 Elise, Magnetic Blue / Biscuit / Hardtop / http://eliseinfo.com Radar detector mounting brackets for sale here

06-13-2009, 04:47 PM	#3 (permalink)
38bfast Registered User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Macomb MI Posts: 177	The new baffles are made out of S.S. They fit on the edges about the same as the OE baffle. The OE sealant is not the root cause. The root cause is the design of the baffle itself. I only use a small amount of sealant in the corners. __________________ Ralph Provitz 2008 WHRRI SM Champion 2008 WHRRI Top 10 Driver 2006 Exige V2 Motorsports

06-14-2009, 06:10 AM	#4 (permalink)
shinoo Project Nirvana Elise Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Temecula, CA Posts: 2,617	Here is a pic of the stock baffle. Attached Images __________________ shinoo sector 111 - tasty bits for your elise & exige

06-14-2009, 06:30 AM	#5 (permalink)
JungleJim Left Lane Assasin Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Norwalk, CT Posts: 120 Images: 12	I'm just glad there are so many creative and talented individuals and companys willing to engineer all the fixes necessary to make the Elise/Exige live up to it's potenial. __________________ 2007 Exige-All Black and Mean, Factory TouringPak/TrackPak/StarShield/LSD/TractionControl/iPodDock. All stock but not for long. v = square root ((2 * e) / m)

06-14-2009, 06:32 AM	#6 (permalink)
38bfast Registered User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Macomb MI Posts: 177	Well now everyone can see the root cause. Those big holes can’t keep the fuel on the LH side with the fuel pump. If you take a hard LH turn all the fuel just goes up and through those big holes and fast. What hasn’t made it over to the RH side is too far away from the fuel pump pick up to make it to the motor. When I first opened up a tank I could not believe this ever made it off the drawing board (ok CAD terminal). As well you can see the adhesive is a very small part of the problem. I would assume that the glue was an attempt to band aid an inadequate design. My opinion anyway. Not to slam Lotus, it's alwasy easy to second guess a current design. Just a note. At 1G the fuel would be at a 45 degree angle to the bottom of the tank. The higher the Gs the steeper the fuel angle. The stepper the angle the further the fuel gets away from the pump. Now add bumping around on the track. The pump has no change to see any fuel. If you don't upgrade your system. Keep your tank topped when on the track. So how do you get such nice pictures of the baffle? Well you just cut the end off the tank . __________________ Ralph Provitz 2008 WHRRI SM Champion 2008 WHRRI Top 10 Driver 2006 Exige V2 Motorsports Last edited by 38bfast : 06-14-2009 at 06:43 AM.

06-14-2009, 09:02 AM	#8 (permalink)
slaughtr Big head man Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Boise, Idaho Posts: 5,953 Images: 3	How hard is it to take out the fuel tank? __________________ My car both sucks and blows. Now with added all natural smoky goodness!

06-14-2009, 12:57 PM	#10 (permalink)
RoadDad perfututum futūtor Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 5,989	Can someone please explain to me how this would be better than a fuel surge tank? TIA. __________________ "Really, you want to maintain a semblance of professionalism since you represent Lotus. Me... I don't need to. Bite me." -Randy

06-15-2009, 08:09 AM	#12 (permalink)
ads_green Registered User Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 318	Also no cutting of the fuel lines you have. Take out old tank then fit new tank. The fuel surge tank method is probably better at getting consistent fuel pressures but it's still using the stock pump in the tank as a lifter so it'll still have problems getting the fuel out of the tank udner hard cornering. You're then running on whats left in the surge tank. As long as the surge tank is large enough (and slim enough) then they'll be no problems. For what it's worth the FIA bag tank has zero surge problems and only uses one way baffles and safety foam to do it's job.

06-15-2009, 06:51 PM	#13 (permalink)
RichS No, it's only an N/A Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 3,285	I was just thinking that foam would be a great way to go. Shinoo, any chance of using foam? __________________ Useful links to vendors removed at Nadeem's request. "Nice avatar by the way, I doubt Colin Chapman would have followed the herd as I have seen many here do. --Nadeem"

07-02-2009, 11:08 AM	#15 (permalink)
final advocate Registered User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Houston Posts: 29	Shinoo, What is the turnaround time on the swap, and is the $650 all in or are there additional shipping expenses? __________________ laissez le bon temps roulez

07-02-2009, 05:10 PM	#17 (permalink)
gameson Track Addict Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,997	I know you said that emission part remains intact, BUT does it void the emission warranty from LOTUS because you are modifying a fuel tank? I believe emission warranty is like 6 years?

07-02-2009, 06:33 PM	#18 (permalink)
vyuen Registered User Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 187	Doesn't it make more sense to just buy a new fuel tank? I bought one from Eliseparts that is half the weight of the OEM tank and fixes the problem for about the same amount of $$

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