Rear diff-uh oh - LotusTalk

Surferjer · 07-06-2009, 12:48 PM

Pretty sure I blew my rear diff today getting on the freeway. Engine is find, transmission seems fine, but even in neutral, clutch in, the roll and then thuds to a stop. If I try to drive it, it goes thud thud ud and shudders partway around each rotation. The car came with a factory LSD. I will have my local garage take a look, but I'm pretty certain it's the diff.

So what are my options? I'm not mated to stock (expensive). Heck, I'm not even mated to having a LSD. I don't race her anymore, so an open diff would probably work fine i think. Any and all help appreciated. crapola.

PS-warranty is expired, and even if it wasn't, the ProSolos I did woulda voided it anyway. So no point in going there.

kestrel74 · 07-06-2009, 12:52 PM

Wow.Jer.... I'll bet there are TONS of parts out there somewhere !

CrashTestDummy · 07-06-2009, 01:26 PM

I have an open diff if you decide to go that way.

Surferjer · 07-06-2009, 01:40 PM

George, how hard is it to do this work? I think I'd prefer another LSD, but, especially if it's outrageously expensive, then an open dif would get the job done. I liked my open dif just fine on the street on my first Elise. Just not sure I want to take a car that came with a LSD and T/C and make it an open diff car.

Heck, I'm not even sure it's the diff but my brain tells me that it is likely given the symptoms.

Bad day...I wonder how this happened NOW, just getting on the freeway...

ghastley · 07-06-2009, 01:55 PM

Might not be diff, could just be a broken Universal Joint. Which is presumably cheaper!

Surferjer · 07-06-2009, 02:13 PM

man, that would be great. The car still rolls on power, just makes a thudding sound and feel. My local garage, whom I trust, will get to the bottom of it but may not elect to try to do the repairs.

I'm getting better at this stuff everyday, but I'm not yet qualified to crack the tranny and fix it myself.

khamai · 07-06-2009, 02:52 PM

Try raising the rear and manually turning the wheels. More likely to be a blown CV joint by your description. Don't drive it. You don't want to risk a CV coming completely apart and having a half shaft whipping around!

Kiyoshi

Surferjer · 07-06-2009, 03:51 PM

Funny, Eilvfiji (Ron) on this board suggested the same thing! I will do that, and hope for the best. I was jst talking to another veteran knowledgable Elise owner who has done a lot of tranny work on his, and he said if it IS internal, I'm probably better off just getting another transmission than crack one and attempting to repair it. I'll keep my fingers crossed for a CV joint.

khamai · 07-06-2009, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surferjer

Funny, Eilvfiji (Ron) on this board suggested the same thing! I will do that, and hope for the best. I was jst talking to another veteran knowledgable Elise owner who has done a lot of tranny work on his, and he said if it IS internal, I'm probably better off just getting another transmission than crack one and attempting to repair it. I'll keep my fingers crossed for a CV joint.

Usually if you've blown a diff you can't move the car. Things lock up or blow up! And yes, bad diff means lots of metal in ugly places, so replacing is a LOT easier (especially true for transaxles). Let's hope it's the CV or maybe even a bad wheel bearing (besides turning the wheel, try rocking it) or output bearing (at the stub axle).

Cheers,
Kiyoshi

Surferjer · 07-06-2009, 05:10 PM

Thanks, Kiyoshi! It's not a wheel bearing, I'm certain, but it could be one of the other things. I'll check it out and get back. At least I have something to be optimistic about now.

The car still rolls freely until it gets to a point, then shudders but you can push it past that shudder and it makes another revolution.

Green Hornet · 07-06-2009, 05:17 PM

Good Luck with this one -

Please keep us up to date on this one.

Best Wishes ...

akandok · 07-06-2009, 05:49 PM

I think its the final drive.

My friend just blew his final drive by doing a fast 1-2 upshift on his Honda.. Took us 2 hours to take it apart, clean it, replace the final drive and the mainshaft. (Thats not counting install and removal.)

Surferjer · 07-06-2009, 05:54 PM

Okay, I'm an idiot. What do you mean by final drive? Is that in the tranny? dumb me, sorry...

Icedog_16 · 07-06-2009, 06:09 PM

You haven't mentioned whether your car's doing it whilst turning. If it is, then I vote CV joint, too. One other thing to add re the CV joint: Quite often, the joint boot is torn first and dirt gets in there and ruins the joint. Look for a tear in the boot as a preliminary indicator.

Mind you, I haven't had a rear-drive car with a bad CV joint, so I can't say for sure. But I've (and my friends) had plenty of front-drive cars' (Hondas were by far the worst) CV joints go bad and they clicked like all get-out whenever turning.

Surferjer · 07-06-2009, 06:36 PM

I don't know what it does turning because I was going straight and never got a chance to turn it. But a CV in the wouldn't be affected by a turn, would it? A wheel bearing would for sure.

Aedo · 07-06-2009, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icedog_16

You haven't mentioned whether your car's doing it whilst turning. If it is, then I vote CV joint, too. One other thing to add re the CV joint: Quite often, the joint boot is torn first and dirt gets in there and ruins the joint. Look for a tear in the boot as a preliminary indicator.

Mind you, I haven't had a rear-drive car with a bad CV joint, so I can't say for sure. But I've (and my friends) had plenty of front-drive cars' (Hondas were by far the worst) CV joints go bad and they clicked like all get-out whenever turning.

Not the same with rear drive - this is only obvious with FWD due to the increased articulation of the joint when turning.

kmt63 · 07-06-2009, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by akandok

I think its the final drive.

My friend just blew his final drive by doing a fast 1-2 upshift on his Honda.. Took us 2 hours to take it apart, clean it, replace the final drive and the mainshaft. (Thats not counting install and removal.)

he means the input shaft.this is what slides into the clutch.the trd lsd units are around 500 bucks.thats not bad for a new lsd.dont know what comes stock in these cars for a lsd.

choi0706 · 07-06-2009, 08:58 PM

depends on what you change it out with.. if you need a box full of brass, and lsd pieces, and other stuff.. you're better off getting a new box.. to get to the final drive, ALL the gears come out.. its very labor intensive on these toyota boxes..

akandok · 07-06-2009, 10:36 PM

The final drive unbolts from the LSD. Therefore the LSD does not need replacement unless it is damaged. (Highly unlikely that the LSD is damaged)

When the final drive goes, the output shaft usually goes with it..

Hopefully this info will be helpful.

khamai · 07-06-2009, 11:49 PM

If something broke in the diff then there's likely a lot of funny metal bits circulating about the rest of the gearbox. Those little micro bits of metal will lodge themselves in the soft material of the synchros and bearings. Thus the previous post about replacing the gearbox, since you'd have tear it down to replace the synchros and bears at the very least.

Again, let's hope it's a CV or output shaft bearing.

Kiyoshi

07-06-2009, 12:48 PM	#1 (permalink)
Surferjer No more cone damage! Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Exton, PA Posts: 8,885	Rear diff-uh oh Pretty sure I blew my rear diff today getting on the freeway. Engine is find, transmission seems fine, but even in neutral, clutch in, the roll and then thuds to a stop. If I try to drive it, it goes thud thud ud and shudders partway around each rotation. The car came with a factory LSD. I will have my local garage take a look, but I'm pretty certain it's the diff. So what are my options? I'm not mated to stock (expensive). Heck, I'm not even mated to having a LSD. I don't race her anymore, so an open diff would probably work fine i think. Any and all help appreciated. crapola. PS-warranty is expired, and even if it wasn't, the ProSolos I did woulda voided it anyway. So no point in going there. __________________ Jer-2005 Elise (retired from autox) 1993 MR2 autox car 2002 Ford Excursion DIESEL 4 X 4 1993 Miata (throwout bearing or clutch failure) 1987 Toyota Corolla FX16 Lemons car (needs new head) 1984 Chevy Citation Lemons car (needs a motor)

07-06-2009, 12:52 PM	#2 (permalink)
kestrel74 G-200 Driver Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: North of Detroit; Watkins Glen, NY Posts: 9,307	Wow.Jer.... I'll bet there are TONS of parts out there somewhere ! __________________ 74 Europa Zetec TC Special 3614R Elise #2292 / Chrome Orange !! / Starshield / Nitron Sport SA / RTDbrace / Uprights machined / Down Low rails / ChaseCam / V1 / SS lines w/ R4-S "My daily driver does .85 Mach" " I started flying when Sex was safe and Hang Gliding was dangerous " BUY My Europa ! http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f94/...pa-sale-43829/

07-06-2009, 01:26 PM	#3 (permalink)
CrashTestDummy Registered User Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Louisville, Kentucky Posts: 435	I have an open diff if you decide to go that way. __________________ We have evolved!! Two black marks now.

07-06-2009, 01:40 PM	#4 (permalink)
Surferjer No more cone damage! Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Exton, PA Posts: 8,885	George, how hard is it to do this work? I think I'd prefer another LSD, but, especially if it's outrageously expensive, then an open dif would get the job done. I liked my open dif just fine on the street on my first Elise. Just not sure I want to take a car that came with a LSD and T/C and make it an open diff car. Heck, I'm not even sure it's the diff but my brain tells me that it is likely given the symptoms. Bad day...I wonder how this happened NOW, just getting on the freeway... __________________ Jer-2005 Elise (retired from autox) 1993 MR2 autox car 2002 Ford Excursion DIESEL 4 X 4 1993 Miata (throwout bearing or clutch failure) 1987 Toyota Corolla FX16 Lemons car (needs new head) 1984 Chevy Citation Lemons car (needs a motor)

07-06-2009, 02:13 PM	#6 (permalink)
Surferjer No more cone damage! Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Exton, PA Posts: 8,885	man, that would be great. The car still rolls on power, just makes a thudding sound and feel. My local garage, whom I trust, will get to the bottom of it but may not elect to try to do the repairs. I'm getting better at this stuff everyday, but I'm not yet qualified to crack the tranny and fix it myself. __________________ Jer-2005 Elise (retired from autox) 1993 MR2 autox car 2002 Ford Excursion DIESEL 4 X 4 1993 Miata (throwout bearing or clutch failure) 1987 Toyota Corolla FX16 Lemons car (needs new head) 1984 Chevy Citation Lemons car (needs a motor)

07-06-2009, 01:55 PM	#5 (permalink)
ghastley Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: PA Posts: 266	Might not be diff, could just be a broken Universal Joint. Which is presumably cheaper!

07-06-2009, 02:52 PM	#7 (permalink)
khamai Plain ol' Lotus-nut Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Nor Cal Posts: 3,562	Try raising the rear and manually turning the wheels. More likely to be a blown CV joint by your description. Don't drive it. You don't want to risk a CV coming completely apart and having a half shaft whipping around! Kiyoshi __________________ life is better behind the wheel of a Lotus...

07-06-2009, 03:51 PM	#8 (permalink)
Surferjer No more cone damage! Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Exton, PA Posts: 8,885	Funny, Eilvfiji (Ron) on this board suggested the same thing! I will do that, and hope for the best. I was jst talking to another veteran knowledgable Elise owner who has done a lot of tranny work on his, and he said if it IS internal, I'm probably better off just getting another transmission than crack one and attempting to repair it. I'll keep my fingers crossed for a CV joint. __________________ Jer-2005 Elise (retired from autox) 1993 MR2 autox car 2002 Ford Excursion DIESEL 4 X 4 1993 Miata (throwout bearing or clutch failure) 1987 Toyota Corolla FX16 Lemons car (needs new head) 1984 Chevy Citation Lemons car (needs a motor)

07-06-2009, 05:10 PM	#10 (permalink)
Surferjer No more cone damage! Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Exton, PA Posts: 8,885	Thanks, Kiyoshi! It's not a wheel bearing, I'm certain, but it could be one of the other things. I'll check it out and get back. At least I have something to be optimistic about now. The car still rolls freely until it gets to a point, then shudders but you can push it past that shudder and it makes another revolution. __________________ Jer-2005 Elise (retired from autox) 1993 MR2 autox car 2002 Ford Excursion DIESEL 4 X 4 1993 Miata (throwout bearing or clutch failure) 1987 Toyota Corolla FX16 Lemons car (needs new head) 1984 Chevy Citation Lemons car (needs a motor)

07-06-2009, 05:17 PM	#11 (permalink)
Green Hornet Zzzzzzz Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Lancaster, PA Posts: 874	Good Luck with this one - Please keep us up to date on this one. Best Wishes ... __________________ Life, Liberty and the Happiness of Pursuit

07-06-2009, 05:49 PM	#12 (permalink)
akandok 2006 Lotus Elise Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 1,808	I think its the final drive. My friend just blew his final drive by doing a fast 1-2 upshift on his Honda.. Took us 2 hours to take it apart, clean it, replace the final drive and the mainshaft. (Thats not counting install and removal.) __________________ “The biggest cause of trouble in the world today is that the stupid people are so sure about things and the intelligent folks are so full of doubts.” Bertrand Russell John 3:16

07-06-2009, 05:54 PM	#13 (permalink)
Surferjer No more cone damage! Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Exton, PA Posts: 8,885	Okay, I'm an idiot. What do you mean by final drive? Is that in the tranny? dumb me, sorry... __________________ Jer-2005 Elise (retired from autox) 1993 MR2 autox car 2002 Ford Excursion DIESEL 4 X 4 1993 Miata (throwout bearing or clutch failure) 1987 Toyota Corolla FX16 Lemons car (needs new head) 1984 Chevy Citation Lemons car (needs a motor)

07-06-2009, 06:09 PM	#14 (permalink)
Icedog_16 I drank what?!? Join Date: May 2005 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 4,212	You haven't mentioned whether your car's doing it whilst turning. If it is, then I vote CV joint, too. One other thing to add re the CV joint: Quite often, the joint boot is torn first and dirt gets in there and ruins the joint. Look for a tear in the boot as a preliminary indicator. Mind you, I haven't had a rear-drive car with a bad CV joint, so I can't say for sure. But I've (and my friends) had plenty of front-drive cars' (Hondas were by far the worst) CV joints go bad and they clicked like all get-out whenever turning.

07-06-2009, 06:36 PM	#15 (permalink)
Surferjer No more cone damage! Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Exton, PA Posts: 8,885	I don't know what it does turning because I was going straight and never got a chance to turn it. But a CV in the wouldn't be affected by a turn, would it? A wheel bearing would for sure. __________________ Jer-2005 Elise (retired from autox) 1993 MR2 autox car 2002 Ford Excursion DIESEL 4 X 4 1993 Miata (throwout bearing or clutch failure) 1987 Toyota Corolla FX16 Lemons car (needs new head) 1984 Chevy Citation Lemons car (needs a motor)

07-06-2009, 08:58 PM	#18 (permalink)
choi0706 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Houston/Austin Posts: 4,224	depends on what you change it out with.. if you need a box full of brass, and lsd pieces, and other stuff.. you're better off getting a new box.. to get to the final drive, ALL the gears come out.. its very labor intensive on these toyota boxes.. __________________ Jay-05' ST, HT, Touring Red Rally Ready

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07-06-2009, 10:36 PM	#19 (permalink)
akandok 2006 Lotus Elise Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 1,808	The final drive unbolts from the LSD. Therefore the LSD does not need replacement unless it is damaged. (Highly unlikely that the LSD is damaged) When the final drive goes, the output shaft usually goes with it.. Hopefully this info will be helpful. __________________ “The biggest cause of trouble in the world today is that the stupid people are so sure about things and the intelligent folks are so full of doubts.” Bertrand Russell John 3:16

07-06-2009, 11:49 PM	#20 (permalink)
khamai Plain ol' Lotus-nut Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Nor Cal Posts: 3,562	If something broke in the diff then there's likely a lot of funny metal bits circulating about the rest of the gearbox. Those little micro bits of metal will lodge themselves in the soft material of the synchros and bearings. Thus the previous post about replacing the gearbox, since you'd have tear it down to replace the synchros and bears at the very least. Again, let's hope it's a CV or output shaft bearing. Kiyoshi __________________ life is better behind the wheel of a Lotus...