Track day only misfire!!!! - LotusTalk

rmsaroyan · 10-30-2007, 08:35 PM

I have an 05 elise with Fujita CAI, de-cat pipe, & the Sector (Charlie's) cam changeover re-flash with the post cat sensor function disabled. I get misfire codes (1302 followed by 0303 (indicating cylinder 3) after about 10-15 hot track laps on the average. The car runs fine until the 0303 code comes on & then goes into the "limp" mode with flashing CEL making it barely driveable. Clearing the codes with my OBDII scanner cures the problem for another session & then it recurs. I have changed both the coil pack & the plug in that cylinder which has not cured the problem. When I come home from the track >100 miles) it throws no codes & runs fine on the street (no pending codes either; I keep checking). I cannot replicate the problem anywhere but running hard on a track, which will probably make it tough to get a cure thru the dealer. Any suggestions????? Thanks..........

mikelr · 10-30-2007, 09:11 PM

Put your cat back on and see if it clears up. I bet you it does.

If not, considering it's always #3 you may have a problem with the fuel injector, but that is stretch (one that should be followed up on none the less).

charliex · 10-31-2007, 01:05 AM

could try a higher octane fuel , what you running at the track?

ZTEC · 10-31-2007, 01:55 AM

Charlie, do you ever sleep?

Personally, I would really want to know what my A/F was with the mods.

carl · 10-31-2007, 02:44 AM

Mark, give Ritchie a call i talked to him the last time it happened @ BW. If you need any more help call me 805 969 0893. carl

rmsaroyan · 10-31-2007, 09:24 PM

Thanks guys! I think I'm gonna start with putting the stock air box back in , which could be affecting the A/F at least slightly, & I doubt it's helping in the power dept anyway (it just sounds great!!). I'm also going to take up Charlie's suggestion & pay up for higher octane gas at the track (I have been using 91 pump gas). The cat I've been thinking about puting back in anyway as the car just attracts too many cops.........Failing that Ritchie gets a call (I'd likely need to demonstrate a problem running it stock to get any love on warranty anyway!!).

Carl I'll give you a ring & get his #; see you on the 30th........................Gotta get this all squared up cause in April when the warranty is gone I'm likely going to put in Charlie's/Sector's/Ronin's blower.................................

charliex · 10-31-2007, 09:28 PM

I'd take the CAI off too, if it were me, at least just to see what happens, back to stock box for 100 miles first.

and yes i'd definetely be looking at the AF if i were a serious tracker.

xtn · 11-01-2007, 05:47 AM

This is the first I've seen of any other owner posting symtoms that are at least similar to my own.

I'm getting P1301 mostly, with a P1302 a couple of times. Have not gotten any P030X codes though, so it isn't specifying a cylinder.

It begins to missfire somewhere in the 5K-6K rpm range, only under high throttle and high load (for example it will not happen in first gear) then goes into limp home mode in the low 7K rpm range.

I also got a VERY rough cold start that lasts for a couple whole minutes. This symptom began on the same day as the others, so I think it must be related although I can't figure out how.

Been in two different dealer service departments already for a total of about seven weeks in the shop. Replaced plugs, coils, ignition harness, ecu, injector harness, injectors, etc. Still does it. No resolution yet. In fact I think it's getting worse.

xtn

PS - I only have an aftermarket muffler. Everything else drivetrain related is completely bone stock.

mikelr · 11-01-2007, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xtn

This is the first I've seen of any other owner posting symtoms that are at least similar to my own.

I'm getting P1301 mostly, with a P1302 a couple of times. Have not gotten any P030X codes though, so it isn't specifying a cylinder.

It begins to missfire somewhere in the 5K-6K rpm range, only under high throttle and high load (for example it will not happen in first gear) then goes into limp home mode in the low 7K rpm range.

I also got a VERY rough cold start that lasts for a couple whole minutes. This symptom began on the same day as the others, so I think it must be related although I can't figure out how.

Been in two different dealer service departments already for a total of about seven weeks in the shop. Replaced plugs, coils, ignition harness, ecu, injector harness, injectors, etc. Still does it. No resolution yet. In fact I think it's getting worse.

xtn

PS - I only have an aftermarket muffler. Everything else drivetrain related is completely bone stock.

Maybe you should think about checking you fuel pressure under load.

codymac · 11-01-2007, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikelr

Maybe you should think about checking you fuel pressure under load.

Interestingly enough, this has been suggested and disregarded.

xtn · 11-01-2007, 11:55 AM

A powertrain engineer has "finally responded" and now thinks that fuel pressure "may be an area to look at."

So I'm going to schedule a drop-off at OverSeas and let them have it for a while I guess. If this turns into the THIRD failed attempt I'm going to start calling Parliament and throwing my weight around.

xtn

mp3moose · 11-01-2007, 12:14 PM

What is P1301?

I threw 0303 (cylinder three misfire) the other day after just starting the car and letting it idle for about 2-3 mins on a completely stock car.

codymac · 11-01-2007, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xtn

A powertrain engineer has "finally responded" and now thinks that fuel pressure "may be an area to look at."

Nice that they're finally listening to the people who've looked at the car, huh?

Arnie must really be back.

xtn · 11-01-2007, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mp3moose

What is P1301?

I threw 0303 (cylinder three misfire) the other day after just starting the car and letting it idle for about 2-3 mins on a completely stock car.

P1301 is "random missfire"

ducatiexigeowner · 11-01-2007, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charliex

I'd take the CAI off too, if it were me, at least just to see what happens, back to stock box for 100 miles first.

and yes i'd definetely be looking at the AF if i were a serious tracker.

....

fuel surge...?
Octane booster could be the simple answer.....US gas....

maf sensor ect ect....

full tank,octane booster.....
random misfire codes do not mean rush out and change the plugs or coil packs.
.....

kverges · 11-12-2007, 11:41 AM

Octane seems pretty unlikely to me. Fuel pressure is worth a look, but will be hard to do as there is no pressure port and something will have to be fabricated to measure it under load. Leakdown and compression seem unlikely, too, I have had cars with 15-25% leakdown run amazingly well.

I assume the plugs look OK visually?

You are welcome to borrow my Innovate WBO2 and plug it into your secondary O2 bung to test and see what A/F looks like under high load. It won't be perfect after the cat, but if A/F is causing a misfire, you may see something really wacky. You might find me at MSR from time to time, but make sure I bring it with me.

mp3moose · 11-12-2007, 11:47 AM

I am having the same issue but occuring at start up. I thought it was an octane issue as well but this seems like something else as it's returned after clearing the code and fresh gas.

Icedog_16 · 12-11-2007, 02:58 PM

Any word on what the deal was? I had a P1302 today; but not on the track, just normal driving. It was preceded by a ticking sound that varied with engine speed and I had never heard such a noise. On my way home tonight, I tried to outrun the ticking sound.

Then, the car didn't sound right, like it was missing, and I got the CEL. It seemed to be somewhat sporadic; sometimes it was missing on acceleration, sometimes not. When I got home, no ticking sound (guess I lost it

) and still had the CEL upon restarting and taking it to the local auto parts store to borrow their reader (I've been putting it off as this is the only CEL I've had even after adding a CAI).

I'm just trying to gather info so I don't get any run-around at the dealer and so I can point them in the right direction. FWIW, I have a TurboXS intake, Larini decat, Stage 2, and the ecuFlash2 from S111 so a cat problem shouldn't be an issue.

codymac · 12-11-2007, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kverges

Fuel pressure is worth a look, but will be hard to do as there is no pressure port and something will have to be fabricated to measure it under load.

I've been told the ECU has fuel pressure in it and the Tech III tool is capable of tracing fuel pressure, from the ECU, in a driving test.

Icedog_16 · 12-11-2007, 03:49 PM

Thanks! I'll make sure they check that out as well. In the convo with service, I had mentioned possible plug and coil pack issues and they thought that it could be something in that realm. But I wanted to research it more, and it seems to be for good reason. I'll be sure to post back what I find out.

10-30-2007, 08:35 PM	#1 (permalink)
rmsaroyan Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Rancho Palos Verdes Posts: 48	Track day only misfire!!!! I have an 05 elise with Fujita CAI, de-cat pipe, & the Sector (Charlie's) cam changeover re-flash with the post cat sensor function disabled. I get misfire codes (1302 followed by 0303 (indicating cylinder 3) after about 10-15 hot track laps on the average. The car runs fine until the 0303 code comes on & then goes into the "limp" mode with flashing CEL making it barely driveable. Clearing the codes with my OBDII scanner cures the problem for another session & then it recurs. I have changed both the coil pack & the plug in that cylinder which has not cured the problem. When I come home from the track >100 miles) it throws no codes & runs fine on the street (no pending codes either; I keep checking). I cannot replicate the problem anywhere but running hard on a track, which will probably make it tough to get a cure thru the dealer. Any suggestions????? Thanks..........

10-30-2007, 09:11 PM	#2 (permalink)
mikelr <[^,^]> Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Newburgh, New York Posts: 651	Put your cat back on and see if it clears up. I bet you it does. If not, considering it's always #3 you may have a problem with the fuel injector, but that is stretch (one that should be followed up on none the less). __________________ 00' S1 Exige (7.14lbs/hp) 94' S4 Esprit (SOLD) :-( 07' Ram Quad cab 3500 hauler

10-31-2007, 01:05 AM	#3 (permalink)
charliex OSX Black hat Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Las Vegas , NV Posts: 10,000	could try a higher octane fuel , what you running at the track? __________________ Black Exige S / Elan M100. Don't run a smaller pulley without an upgraded fuel pump! http://www.goth.am ecu stuff.. New reflash box coming soon!

10-31-2007, 01:55 AM	#4 (permalink)
ZTEC Third Eye Open Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 1,886 Images: 3	Charlie, do you ever sleep? Personally, I would really want to know what my A/F was with the mods. __________________ GO: Vision Function Stage II Intercooled Bliss with Charlie's ECU magic and Ronin's Tenacity! STOP: DBA 4000's, Hawk HT-10! TURN: Nitron S/A's Toyo RA1's 225/245 on Rota's! Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is not putting it into a fruit salad. Last edited by ZTEC; 10-31-2007 at 02:03 AM.

10-31-2007, 09:28 PM	#7 (permalink)
charliex OSX Black hat Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Las Vegas , NV Posts: 10,000	I'd take the CAI off too, if it were me, at least just to see what happens, back to stock box for 100 miles first. and yes i'd definetely be looking at the AF if i were a serious tracker. __________________ Black Exige S / Elan M100. Don't run a smaller pulley without an upgraded fuel pump! http://www.goth.am ecu stuff.. New reflash box coming soon!

10-31-2007, 02:44 AM	#5 (permalink)
carl Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,094	Mark, give Ritchie a call i talked to him the last time it happened @ BW. If you need any more help call me 805 969 0893. carl

10-31-2007, 09:24 PM	#6 (permalink)
rmsaroyan Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Rancho Palos Verdes Posts: 48	Thanks guys! I think I'm gonna start with putting the stock air box back in , which could be affecting the A/F at least slightly, & I doubt it's helping in the power dept anyway (it just sounds great!!). I'm also going to take up Charlie's suggestion & pay up for higher octane gas at the track (I have been using 91 pump gas). The cat I've been thinking about puting back in anyway as the car just attracts too many cops.........Failing that Ritchie gets a call (I'd likely need to demonstrate a problem running it stock to get any love on warranty anyway!!). Carl I'll give you a ring & get his #; see you on the 30th........................Gotta get this all squared up cause in April when the warranty is gone I'm likely going to put in Charlie's/Sector's/Ronin's blower.................................

11-01-2007, 05:47 AM	#8 (permalink)
xtn McLareghini Bugatterrari Join Date: May 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 6,894	This is the first I've seen of any other owner posting symtoms that are at least similar to my own. I'm getting P1301 mostly, with a P1302 a couple of times. Have not gotten any P030X codes though, so it isn't specifying a cylinder. It begins to missfire somewhere in the 5K-6K rpm range, only under high throttle and high load (for example it will not happen in first gear) then goes into limp home mode in the low 7K rpm range. I also got a VERY rough cold start that lasts for a couple whole minutes. This symptom began on the same day as the others, so I think it must be related although I can't figure out how. Been in two different dealer service departments already for a total of about seven weeks in the shop. Replaced plugs, coils, ignition harness, ecu, injector harness, injectors, etc. Still does it. No resolution yet. In fact I think it's getting worse. xtn PS - I only have an aftermarket muffler. Everything else drivetrain related is completely bone stock. __________________ 2006 McLareghini Bugatterrari, Storm Titanium... <mods> installed: air horn, Scroth 4-point ASM harnesses, Sector111 halon extinguisher and mounting bracket, Von Hep exhaust and rear panel delete, Pagid brake pads, red Volks CE28n wheels, Toyo RA-1 tires, Nitron SA coilovers, Sector111 (WorksBell) quick-disconnect steering wheel kit. awaiting installation: Scroth "pull-up" lap belts, Sector111 RTD Brace, Tony's heater bypass mod, and dropped steering rack mounting plates. </mods>

11-01-2007, 11:55 AM	#11 (permalink)
xtn McLareghini Bugatterrari Join Date: May 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 6,894	A powertrain engineer has "finally responded" and now thinks that fuel pressure "may be an area to look at." So I'm going to schedule a drop-off at OverSeas and let them have it for a while I guess. If this turns into the THIRD failed attempt I'm going to start calling Parliament and throwing my weight around. xtn __________________ 2006 McLareghini Bugatterrari, Storm Titanium... <mods> installed: air horn, Scroth 4-point ASM harnesses, Sector111 halon extinguisher and mounting bracket, Von Hep exhaust and rear panel delete, Pagid brake pads, red Volks CE28n wheels, Toyo RA-1 tires, Nitron SA coilovers, Sector111 (WorksBell) quick-disconnect steering wheel kit. awaiting installation: Scroth "pull-up" lap belts, Sector111 RTD Brace, Tony's heater bypass mod, and dropped steering rack mounting plates. </mods>

11-01-2007, 12:14 PM	#12 (permalink)
mp3moose Complete Lotus Junkie Join Date: May 2004 Location: Washington DC Posts: 691	What is P1301? I threw 0303 (cylinder three misfire) the other day after just starting the car and letting it idle for about 2-3 mins on a completely stock car.

11-12-2007, 11:41 AM	#16 (permalink)
kverges Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Dallas Posts: 1,028	Octane seems pretty unlikely to me. Fuel pressure is worth a look, but will be hard to do as there is no pressure port and something will have to be fabricated to measure it under load. Leakdown and compression seem unlikely, too, I have had cars with 15-25% leakdown run amazingly well. I assume the plugs look OK visually? You are welcome to borrow my Innovate WBO2 and plug it into your secondary O2 bung to test and see what A/F looks like under high load. It won't be perfect after the cat, but if A/F is causing a misfire, you may see something really wacky. You might find me at MSR from time to time, but make sure I bring it with me.

11-12-2007, 11:47 AM	#17 (permalink)
mp3moose Complete Lotus Junkie Join Date: May 2004 Location: Washington DC Posts: 691	I am having the same issue but occuring at start up. I thought it was an octane issue as well but this seems like something else as it's returned after clearing the code and fresh gas.

12-11-2007, 02:58 PM	#18 (permalink)
Icedog_16 I drank what?!? Join Date: May 2005 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 4,220	Any word on what the deal was? I had a P1302 today; but not on the track, just normal driving. It was preceded by a ticking sound that varied with engine speed and I had never heard such a noise. On my way home tonight, I tried to outrun the ticking sound. Then, the car didn't sound right, like it was missing, and I got the CEL. It seemed to be somewhat sporadic; sometimes it was missing on acceleration, sometimes not. When I got home, no ticking sound (guess I lost it ) and still had the CEL upon restarting and taking it to the local auto parts store to borrow their reader (I've been putting it off as this is the only CEL I've had even after adding a CAI). I'm just trying to gather info so I don't get any run-around at the dealer and so I can point them in the right direction. FWIW, I have a TurboXS intake, Larini decat, Stage 2, and the ecuFlash2 from S111 so a cat problem shouldn't be an issue.

12-11-2007, 03:49 PM	#20 (permalink)
Icedog_16 I drank what?!? Join Date: May 2005 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 4,220	Thanks! I'll make sure they check that out as well. In the convo with service, I had mentioned possible plug and coil pack issues and they thought that it could be something in that realm. But I wanted to research it more, and it seems to be for good reason. I'll be sure to post back what I find out.

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