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Old 11-10-2012, 12:55 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Urgent EFI help requested

I have just broken-in a new built engine and then finished the nuts and bolts portion of a TVS installation. I have an EFI computer wired up and I'm trying to get started so I can begin tuning.

I had put out a request for maps a while back and Jim Clayton emailed a couple. I visited Eyelise at his home and he helped me setup port configs and get my laptop and EFI talking. He also gave me two maps.

I loaded up a map several hours ago and have hit a wall. Here are the problems:

1. Jim's maps won't load into the editor.

2. I was able to load Eyelise's maps. The car won't start on either one. I went through them and checked constants and made a few small changes as suggested in the "Getting Started..." PDF. The editor was accepting the changes and passing them to the EFI. (I saw a short progress bar and heard clicking from the engine bay with each change.) Voltage is good and the car cranks well, but there is no combustion. Data controls show reasonable numbers. I looked at the cranking pulse, it was 3300, so I bumped it a few times, eventually to 7000. Still no combustion, but now after cranking, there is a noticeable fuel smell.

3. I took a break and reviewed the documentation I have. I just went out to the garage to try again and found I can not load a map anymore. I can select either of the maps I had been trying, but they don't seem to load up regardless of which map switch position I set. (No progress bar or clicking.) This is especially baffling and frustrating, since the only change I made was to eat a snack!
I tried closing out the editor and reconnecting. The editor goes right online with the EFI, but I still can't make the maps load.

Is there a way to see if the EFI is supplying spark?
Is there something I can fix with a hammer? I really want to hit something...

Any ideas will be appreciated.

Also, if you have a map you're willing to share, please pm me. Ideally, the map would be for my setup (non-intercooled TVS blower on gReddy manifold, 85mm pulley, 550 injectors, 2bular header and decat, Cup air box, 9:1 pistons), but I'll be happy to receive anything that I can get started on and then tune to suit.
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Old 11-10-2012, 01:04 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Is this a 2x EFI ?
If it is it has two modes connected and offline you have to be connected to load maps.
what is the software version and where did you get it?

Playing with maps is a dangerous game.

You really need to have someone with experience work on them with you.

Do you have data logging?
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Old 11-10-2012, 02:08 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Went out for a walk to cool off.

Thanks for your questions, lotus90.

I should have mentioned, it's the older model, EFI 1.2.
I was connected (online) when trying to load the maps. It was loading them initially and seemed to decide to stop.
The software is fairly recent. I think it was the 7.11.12 bundle. Checksum 7B6H. It is the same version that Eyelise ran and tuned his maps on, so it should work even if it's not the very latest. Right now I can't download to the computer, connectivity issues.
The map changes I was making are in accordance with Phil's EFI Firmware Update Procedure - accel constants, accel temp, and accel rpm. No changes to the fuel map other than increasing the crank pulse.
I have a small datalog module in the EFI. At Eyelise's place, we tried it out and it downloaded fine. I tried it today and it started the download but seemed like it was taking way too long to finish, and I had to shut down the editor.
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Old 11-10-2012, 05:29 PM   #4 (permalink)
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update:

I double-checked the checksum. It was not correct. I am pretty certain, say 95%, that it had been right earlier. I used Syscon > Flash Loader to reload the firmware into the EFI, and the checksum came back OK.

However, this did not change any of the behaviors described above. I can edit a map, but can no loger load it into the EFI.
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Old 11-11-2012, 05:53 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Hi

Maps should take only a few seconds to load. They are tiny files. It sounds like you have a software issue. the software I have is 8.1. There 3 programs needed I believe.
How many files do you have for the software install not including maps.

EFI has tech support. I got my 2X EFI from DRS. you might be able to upgrade to 8.1 i am not sure


Ed
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Old 11-11-2012, 08:46 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Hi Ed

I have the 7.1 bundle in there now. I'm sure I have a full complement of software loaded; I wouldn't have been able to load and edit maps initially if I didn't.

I downloaded the 8.1 bundle last night. I'll put it on the laptop and flash the firmware later today.

Do you have the checksum for 8.1?

Thanks
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Old 11-11-2012, 09:01 AM   #7 (permalink)
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It's not a checksum issue. The CS is just to tel lyou what FW you're running and with the newer FW, there are some general running enhancements but nothing to do with program stability, etc...

Most likely your computer and/or serial converter is not agreeing well enough for this type of program to send uninterrupted data packets for extended periods of time. It can often have to do with the usb serial converter not being the only item under a USB host controller. You won't have uninterrupted serial data if the device is below another USB item on a controller other than the controller or hub itself. You'd have to view your USB peripherals by connection type to see this... You run into the same issue on USB CNC devices and very data vs time sensitive recording instruments such as an interrupt type dyno...

Phil
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Old 11-11-2012, 02:10 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Thanks for the input, Phil.

I'm not using a converter. The laptop has a serial port.

The puzzling thing is that I was able to load maps and switch between them with the map switch, and suddenly it's no go after a bowl of chip and salsa. After three years of scrounging parts and a year of building and fabrication, I'm gonna flip out if I can't make this work.

Assuming I get the firmware and a map in place, where should I start troubleshooting why the car won't start?
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Old 11-11-2012, 02:28 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Just because it says map is loaded does not mean it is loaded. I have four files for my install of 8.1. If you have less it could be the problem.

This is not the most intuitive software. I recommend you get on your Cell with someone that has done alot of work with x2 efi and have them walk you through the checks

Ed
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Old 11-11-2012, 04:19 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I just want you to know that your thread sounds really cool! Iíve no idea what you guys are talking about except that your car wonít start. The tech-talk sounds Greek to me. I remember how complicated it seemed when my father tried to teach me how to sync dual carburetors and properly adjust the lean/rich mixture.

Good luck. I can help with an oil change if you need.
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Old 11-11-2012, 05:36 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Heh! Thanks, I needed that...

Lotus90, I believe I have all the software loaded. Btw, I have the older 1.2, not x2.

Had some progress, but also new problems:
I threw out the whole PowerToWin package from the laptop, and re-installed from the 8.1 bundle. I had to set up the data controls again, which took a while. I did not reflash the firmware on the EFI because there was no firmware folder or any .FSX files in the new bundle. I proceeded, hoping that the firmware currently in the box would do the job.

At this point, I am again able to load the two maps I was previously trying out. The editor still will not load the maps from Jim. The 7B6H firmware is in the EFI.

But now there's a new problem. The air box pressure is not reading. It shows 0.0. I am stone cold certain that it was reading 30.something yesterday. I know I checked it because I had thought to look at the local pressure out of curiosity about the accuracy of the sensor. I had not touched the sensor or wiring since yesterday when it was working. I tried unclipping and reconnecting it (just now) and it still seems dead.

Is there a procedure for testing a MAP sensor?
Arrrrgh!
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Old 11-11-2012, 07:15 PM   #12 (permalink)
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In an effort to not write on of my normal long replies, I'll just say this. Please try a different laptop and use a USB port... While problems are quite rare, they are typically computer related when they are...

-PV
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Old 11-12-2012, 07:39 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by luxige View Post
Heh! Thanks, I needed that...

Lotus90, I believe I have all the software loaded. Btw, I have the older 1.2, not x2.

Had some progress, but also new problems:
I threw out the whole PowerToWin package from the laptop, and re-installed from the 8.1 bundle. I had to set up the data controls again, which took a while. I did not reflash the firmware on the EFI because there was no firmware folder or any .FSX files in the new bundle. I proceeded, hoping that the firmware currently in the box would do the job.

At this point, I am again able to load the two maps I was previously trying out. The editor still will not load the maps from Jim. The 7B6H firmware is in the EFI.

But now there's a new problem. The air box pressure is not reading. It shows 0.0. I am stone cold certain that it was reading 30.something yesterday. I know I checked it because I had thought to look at the local pressure out of curiosity about the accuracy of the sensor. I had not touched the sensor or wiring since yesterday when it was working. I tried unclipping and reconnecting it (just now) and it still seems dead.

Is there a procedure for testing a MAP sensor?
Arrrrgh!
Sounds like you now have a X2 map that you are using in a 1.2 ECU, there are some settings that need to happen specific to 1.2 ECU that get mangled in the X2 maps ... I don't recall the details as Kris (DRS) was doing the tuning at the time he discovered it. I have the 1.2 ECU so if you want to send me a screen shot of your ECU configuration settings or post here so I can validate.

I'm using 8.1.5 nEditor, BTW.

Rob
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Old 11-12-2012, 08:15 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Thanks, guys.

I'll pick up a USB/serial cable when my wife gets back with the car and try my Dell laptop.

I found a procedure for testing the MAP, I'll do that in a moment and check continuity of the harness leads.

Rob, I'll post the ECU config here.

If either of you has a 1.2 map I can use, please pm me for my email address. TY
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Old 11-12-2012, 08:16 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Here are screen shots of my 1.2 ECU configuration and USB port settings (NA application, DBC)

Firmware is EFE7H (7B6H is old) -- highly (highly, highly) recommend you update. You can also send unit to EFI direct (they can flash latest and validate the unit is ok), their turn around is usually < 2 weeks -- sooner if you pay for expedited.

Could be your laptop/cable also. I'm running WinXP on my laptop.
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Old 11-12-2012, 08:22 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Thanks, guys.

I'll pick up a USB/serial cable when my wife gets back with the car and try my Dell laptop.

I found a procedure for testing the MAP, I'll do that in a moment and check continuity of the harness leads.

Rob, I'll post the ECU config here.

If either of you has a 1.2 map I can use, please pm me for my email address. TY
My old M62 maps will do you no good as they do not work with TVS maps, very different. Obviously my current NA maps will not work either, they're not pressure based.
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Old 11-12-2012, 09:05 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Greg- You need the PC to have a reliable connection to the EFI and your data controls setup to monitor the critical engine parameters. I think you have done this, but if not, please watch the video tutorials on my website for this and datalogging.

By reliable connection, I mean you need to be able to upload maps, FW, and configuration files without errors. This is normally not a problem. Like I said, the times I've seen this be a problem, it was laptop specific, FWIW...

Eyelise's maps are 1.2 and should be a decent starting point. So are Jim's old maps. He's still 1.2, but his old maps are for a similar setup to what you have.

The FW update has enhanced IAC control, switches Lambda control over to Lambda 2 from L1, and has a 30 second delay after startup before switching to closed loop--- I think that's about it... Regardless, none of that will impact the starting though. If she's not starting, it's either a sensory issue (Which you can tell with your data controls working correctly), a tuning issue that's not working well with cold air (how cold is the car stored?), or possibly a botched ECU, which I would preume would be related to the upload issues you're having.

My suggustion is to dive into this connection issue further. Try a different laptop, etc. If you get no love, send to EFI and have them update the crank trigger strategy as well...

-PV
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Old 11-12-2012, 03:19 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Thanks for the very helpful input, Rob and Phil!

Had some progress of a sort.
I started to check the MAP sensor and read 1.62V across the signal terminal and vehicle ground. I was expecting 5V, so maybe this is a bad sensor?
In any case, since the reading was so low, I decided to crank the motor and see if the voltage dropped a little. The volts came down a bit, and then I got a little surprise - the motor start to fire a bit. I kept cranking a couple more seconds, and it started up. The idle was really bad and unstable, but it kept running. AFR was high 14s. I cautiously tipped in the throttle a tiny bit and AFR went right up to 16 before trimming back to mid 15s. I decided not to push that at all, but I did notice that the throttle position was not reading back to the data controls on the laptop. In fact, none of the numbers were changing, so it's clear that ports settings need to be sorted out.

I let it idle up to temp, and about then it died. I tried to crank it up again, but it showed no interest in firing any more. I went ahead and changed the oil since I had it warmed up.

So I'll keep working on the port config. It doesn't seem like any of the maps I have are going to be usable even as a starting point. I can't load Jim's, and both of Eyelise's are in the box now and won't start the car except for that one fluke.
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Old 11-13-2012, 08:29 AM   #19 (permalink)
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The engine running at idle will be pretty much the same as a stock NA engine. There is no boost to speak off. your is running too lean so it does not sounds like a map issue at this time. just a guess hope this helps

Ed
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Old 11-13-2012, 09:09 AM   #20 (permalink)
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The engine running at idle will be pretty much the same as a stock NA engine. There is no boost to speak off. your is running too lean so it does not sounds like a map issue at this time. just a guess hope this helps

Ed
My NA maps don't use pressure -- I'm TPS/RPM now -- they are not close even at idle.

My recommendation:

1. Send your unit to EFI and have them flash it to latest firmware and run a systems check on it including USB check.
2. Get the 8.1.5 EFI software.
3. Check your laptop and cable and make sure your laptop is plugged in (not on battery)
4. Idle AFR should be around 14 so it looks like you need to add fuel to the map
5. Once USB connection is working, monitor Error flags in the EFI unit

I specifically use a 3ft USB to RS232 cable as shorter distances = less resistance = less degraded signal quality. Here is the cable I use: USB to RS232 cable

EDIT: Assume your O2 sensor is wide band and setup correctly? (narrow band works also but I'd recommend wide band).
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