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Old 11-13-2012, 07:28 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Ed and Rob, TY.

Starting to get this sorted.

Rob's points:
1. It might come to that, not sure I'm there yet.
2. I started on the 7.1 editor, upgraded to 8.1. However, the package does not include the new firmware, so I have the 7.1 firmware in the box (7B6H).
3. Always been on the cord.
4. For sure.
5. Are you referring to the messages that scroll at the bottom of the Data Controls window? One message that sticks out is 'low air box pressure 0.0'

I'm using the NGK Wideband, mounted in the header collector.

Rob, about that cable - I guess you're using it with a female/female adapter?

Now for some new progress:
As I mentioned, data were not reading back to the control window. I decided to dump the software and reload. After that, the data came back to life, except the air box pressure. It still was reading at zero. I cranked the car and it started up after a couple of tries. Still super-lean. I looked at the injection tab and was very surprised to see that MAP was reading out in the live parameters at the top of the window. The numbers looked believable and changed with a small throttle tip. When I shut down it read 30.18 and a check of the local BP said 30.12. Yay!
But the Data Controls still showed 0.0. I remembered that there is a pressure scaling factor, so I checked that in ECU Calibrations. There's the problem, it was scaled at 0.000. Next problem was, I am totally unable to enter the correct factor in that field. It just reverts back to 0.000 every time. I uninstalled the software and loaded it again, but still the same issue.
I know for certain that I had the calibration entered correctly when I first started. And I was getting a good air box pressure number at that point. Something about this latest software just doesn't want to play with Windows XP and/or my old laptop, at least as far as setting ECU calibrations goes. The rest seems to be working okay. I think my best bet may actually be to downgrade to the 7.1 editor.

Unfortunately, the link on the BOE site no longer works. Phil, could I trouble you to post that bundle up again for a day or two? Or email it to me? Same email address that I used for purchases.

In the meantime, I can keep an eye on MAP via the live injector map.

I also picked up a USB/serial cable and had a different learning experience which I won't go into at the moment.

I am still concerned that the MAP sensor is not correct. I get 1.62V between the Ref terminal (center) and ground. Is that right? My research says it should be 5V. If the EFI is working with a MAP number that is always low, that would explain a lean condition...

Or maybe it's simply that I'm running low CR pistons.

Is there an injector calibration scale that might be off?

Tomorrow, I'll try to get the datalogger working and look and the idling data.
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Old 11-14-2012, 05:23 AM   #22 (permalink)
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The map requires 5v to operate. The "read" value will be between 0 and 5v.
Unplug the map connector and measure voltage at the connector. It should be 5 v.
My car idles at 14 to 15 a/f all the time. I don't consider that way lean, at idle anyway.
A good solid idle will require a lot of massaging.
The connection from laptop to efi can be finicky.
I had to try a few different usb to serial adaptors. I also had to try a couple of different laptops.
Current setup is dell with XP. Radio Shack adaptor.
Step one is a good connection between laptop and efi. The firmware is probably good enough for now.
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:03 AM   #23 (permalink)
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one thing that is true with my 2x efi is that my AFX wide band gauge does not read right until engine is warm. it goes straight to 16 for a short period of time
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:31 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Sorry, should have stated I made a small 4" (or so) connector from EFI to reduce unplug/plug fatigue on the EFI port (see pic).

I'm using an AFX wide band also, it works correctly thru cold to warm cycle -- shouldn't be at 16. Did you go thru AFX calibration?

Have you tried using Syscon | Monitor ADC | select 1.2 ECU Type to monitor raw data bits for each channel (especially Manifold Pressure)?

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Old 11-14-2012, 08:45 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Thanks again for your time and continued interest, gents.

I hope to sort out the scaling issue for airbox pressure in ECU calibration on my older laptop. It is not the fastest thing in the world, but it's small and rugged. It's running nothing but Power to Win (on Windows XP) and connects to the EFI well with just a standard serial cable. (I'll just keep the cable (3-footer) permanently attached to to box.) Rob, I'll try your suggestion with the Syscon tab, and double check the ECU setup to see if there is something preventing me from setting the Airbox Pressure scaling. If I can't solve that, then I want to go back to the previous editor software, I think that would do the trick since I had it scaled correctly before.

Jim, good idea about checking voltage with the connector unplugged. So far I have only back-probed (thatswhatshesaid) the center terminal with the sensor connected. I'll try a different meter as well; you never know.

I did calibrate the AFX with the sensor in free air for about ten minutes, but I'll try it again. Ed, how long does it take for yours to roll back from the high reading?

I have also successfully connected my Dell (Vista) with the Radio Shack (Gigaware) cable and driver. Took a lot of troubleshooting and eventually I had to dump and reload the Power to Win bundle to get the port set up. But the laptop is finicky and slow and huge, so I'd rather get the other one sorted.

Things are moving in the right direction now thanks to a lot of help. I'll report back.
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:44 AM   #26 (permalink)
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it takes a around minute for back off from 16. I turn the engine on and it cycles through the all the numbers and than sits 16. than it starts to drop.

Does your EFI have data logging ? this could be very helpful.

Ed
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:27 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Ed, I'm trying to get the datalogger running...

A few more baby steps and some weird bugs today.
I checked the MAP sensor again and again got 1.62V with the car shut down. With the car idling, it gives 0.68V. It finally hit me that if 3bar = 5V, then ambient (1bar) should be 5/3V, or about 1.66. In other words, the sensor reading is okay. Unfortunately, by the time this sunk in, I had already ordered a new sensor. Oh, well.

I called EFI Technology and spoke to Mark about the problem with getting the Airbox Pressure scaling to "take." He had never seen an issue like this, and agreed that going back to the 7.1 editor might be a good approach. He emailed me a link to the software and I downloaded it. But when I tried to unzip it, there was an error message indicating that a required file was missing. On a whim, I tried one last idea to make the 8.1 editor play along. I extracted the config from the ECU back to the laptop. That (somehow) got the config file unstuck and I was able to set the right Airbox scale and offset. Air and Water Temp were already okay.

But, when I started the motor, while I got good numbers on those parameter, all other parameters were stuck on zero. A look at the config showed that all other scales were at zero. Fortunately, I was able to reset them all manually. Here is what I set:
RPM. 1.000/0.000
Lambda Correction 1,2. 0.781/-100.0
Lambda 1,2,Setpoint. 0.005/0.600
Spark Advance. 0.250/ 0.000
Injection. 0.001/0.000
Throttle. 0.500/0.000
Sync Position 1.000/0.000
Vanos Setpoint. 0.250/0.000
Battery. 0.070/0.000
Duty 1,2. 0.391/0.000
Flag0,2,3,FLGCUT. 1.000/0.000
Pedal Position. 0.500/0.000
Accel Rate 1.000/0.000
Cam 1,2. 0.250/0.000
ECU Temp. 1.000/-50.00
I think that covers at least everything I need.

With a walking, talking editor and maps in the ECU, I turned to data logging. I set up the logging table channels and frequencies without any trouble. I set the Enable parameters very low so I could log while idling. I idled the motor a while to test the logging.

Unfortunately, each time I try to download a session, the download will not begin. The progress bar appears, but that's it. The toolbar turns light gray, indicating work in progress, but eventually the cursor turns into an hourglass icon and that's as far as we get. The only way out is to close out the editor. No session file ever gets through.

Is there another configuration that I need to set up, or that may have gotten lost along the way?

Tomorrow, I'll try datalogging with the newer laptop and USB/serial cable and see what I can learn.

I'll also recalibrate the wideband sensor for a good long time, in free air.

Finally, I'm wondering if my injector calibration is correct. What should the settings be?

TIA
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Old 11-15-2012, 03:57 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Don't give up on me now, guys, we're getting there!

I tried the other laptop, and connected with only a small hiccup. But, no dice on the data logging. Same behavior as the other laptop. I've tried everything I can think of; I really hope someone has an idea that will get me on track, that will be the key for tuning.

Left the wideband sensor heated for ~ 40 minutes and it was still calibrated without touching the knob.

I updated the maps with the accel constants Phil recommends for the 7B6H firmware. (This was done previously). It was still running very rich, 1.09L. I added some fuel to the map at the bottom end and have brought the idle Lambda down to around 1. But it doesn't want to maintain a normal idle rpm, it just drifts down to 5 - 700 rpm and dies. I can maintain a slightly rough idle with a little pedal pressure. (Throttle cutoff was already adjusted to idle TPS + 1 degree in Idle Constants and Accel constants.) I tried dropping Prop and Integ Gains a bit, with no improvement. Airbox pressure seems a little high, 11.x - 12.0 or so. I tried plugging the calibrated vac leak orifice and it came down maybe 0.2.

Lambda Correction stayed at 0 pretty much the whole time I was working. Very little trim got dialed in at any point.

One odd thing: the OEM tach is reading high. It's showing 2000 at a bare idle of ~ 700, 3000 at 2000, and 4000 at 3500. I wonder if the error will continue to scale back; I didn't want to rev higher until I get more fuel in there.

I could use some input in three areas - getting the idle up to a sustainable rpm, solving the datalogger download, and determining if I have a vacuum leak. Ideas?

One last thought, should I try adjusting the Throttle or Pedal Pos offsets to get the idle rpm up?
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Old 11-15-2012, 04:58 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Not giving up on you, but you're kinda all over the place doing 10 things at once ... it's just hard for me to really provide any helpful input beyond what I have. Maybe others can keep up with what's going on your end, but sadly I can not.

I like to approach problems one step at a time and eliminate variables as I go, it seems you still have Software and/or connection issues (small hiccup, what exactly does that mean?) with the ECU. I'd solve those problems first (software and ECU communication) before attempting to do anything else.

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Old 11-15-2012, 05:41 PM   #30 (permalink)
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I hear you. I know this is a whole lot of info,so I'm trying to cut out the non-pertinent crap. The hiccup was an error message, Port already open, when the key was turned. I tried a few cyclings and unpluggings and eventually solved it by rebooting the laptop.

Where I stand on software (I'm pretty sure) is: no problems remain with the editor comms, I do need to solve the datalogger issue. I can connect either laptop, and load, save, or edit the map.

I'll double check the MAP sensor when the new one comes in tomorrow, but I expect that there's no problem there. I'm wondering about a possible vac leak. That's it for hardware.

I really do appreciate all the helpful input from you guys; you got me from a big mess to a nearly normal system. I tried to distill the previous post to just those questions at the end:

Why won't the idle maintain?
How can I get the datalogger working?
How to check/diagnose a potential vacuum leak?

Input on any other issues you see pertinent is also welcome, of course. Thanks.
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Old 11-15-2012, 06:36 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Not giving up on you, but you're kinda all over the place doing 10 things at once ... it's just hard for me to really provide any helpful input beyond what I have. Maybe others can keep up with what's going on your end, but sadly I can not.

I like to approach problems one step at a time and eliminate variables as I go, it seems you still have Software and/or connection issues (small hiccup, what exactly does that mean?) with the ECU. I'd solve those problems first (software and ECU communication) before attempting to do anything else.

Rob
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:02 PM   #32 (permalink)
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I'm trying to keep it simple and be as clear as I know how in describing the status of things. I'm asking just a few simple, direct questions.

Is there some further info I could provide that would help solve the datalogging jam?
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:20 PM   #33 (permalink)
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I fixed the link for the 7.1X SW on my website so you should be able to DL it now...

That said, the prob is not the FW and it's not the SW. You problem is

1) Computer
2) The blue box
3) Wiring
4) Sensor

All the FW and SW is forward and backward compatible. You need to make sure those bits are working correctly, end of story.

As for airbox pressure, you need to go to ECU calibrations and check to be sure that the scale is .375 (3 bar MAP sensor) and offset is 0. if that is as so, then you should be seeing correct barometric pressure...

Hope that helps,

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Old 11-15-2012, 10:00 PM   #34 (permalink)
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BTW- if your computer is saying that the port is already open, then you need to restart the PC provided that you cannot find the open port in your task manager...
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Old 11-15-2012, 10:03 PM   #35 (permalink)
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7B6H is obsolete...really old. You need EFE7H firmware for best results (on 1.2 unit). Also should be using V8.1.11 editor. The V7 software is also very old now, regardless if using 1.2 ECU.

When you save a map file (.TAB) it must be in the "Maps" folder located in "Power to Win" directory. If not the files will not load properly and you should see a "Control.def" error.

If using an older PC with Serial it should be the most relaible / simple form of communication. Just make sure you are set to com 1 port.

If it still doesn't connect, make sure the ECU is actually turning on. Check for 12V at pin #17 on the 34 pos connector with ign key on.

If you want more help email me at kris@racesolutions.com and I can look at your maps, etc...

Kris
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:53 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Thanks for your time, guys.

Kris, thanks for the offer. I'll send an email later today.

Phil, the Airbox scaling is set (0.375/0.000). The pressure shows ambient before startup within .1 of local BP. But at idle, it's high 11.x to 12. Your "Getting Started" guide says if it's much over 11, there may be a vacuum leak.

Should I investigate that further?

Back to the garage...
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Old 11-18-2012, 06:24 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Marc at EFI Technology sent me the latest firmware, which I flashed. So I'm now operating with the latest software in both the laptop and the box.

I've been working on the fuel map under no load, and I'll probably put the car on the road tomorrow for some tentative low load checks.

Marc suggested that either the logger file was corrupted (which the reflash should have repaired) or the backup battery in the EFI is dead. However, after the reflash the datalogger still won't download. I opened up the EFI for a look at this battery, but there isn't one. There is a spot on the board for a button battery clip (B1), but it wasn't installed.

Any other ideas what's causing the issue with downloading?
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Old 11-19-2012, 11:14 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Send the unit to be checked by EFI, eliminate one variable at a time.

Rob
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:56 AM   #39 (permalink)
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I'm thinking I may do that when I put the car to sleep for the winter.
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Old 11-20-2012, 08:54 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Marc at EFI Technology sent me the latest firmware, which I flashed. So I'm now operating with the latest software in both the laptop and the box.

I've been working on the fuel map under no load, and I'll probably put the car on the road tomorrow for some tentative low load checks.

Marc suggested that either the logger file was corrupted (which the reflash should have repaired) or the backup battery in the EFI is dead. However, after the reflash the datalogger still won't download. I opened up the EFI for a look at this battery, but there isn't one. There is a spot on the board for a button battery clip (B1), but it wasn't installed.

Any other ideas what's causing the issue with downloading?
The batteries typically need to be serviced every 2-3 yrs (I have seen them last as long as 5 yrs, but I don't think that is common). The longer the ECU is dormant and not using the 12V supplied by the car (meaning turned off) the longer it is using the batt on the board to save the logged data. The maps and hex files live in the E-Proms and are not dependent on this battery.

The battery does not look like a conventional battery, it looks like a chip soldered to the board.

If you look in the ECU details (left side of editor screen / towards bottom of file folder) there will be a section that indicates the logger capacity, serial # of the box, and saved data file size. If you give me or EFI that info we can better help you.

Kris
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