Who is interested in a supercharger?

[cerven]

I don't want the SC - I'll keep my Elise until the next generation Elise or whatever it is comes out then sell off and move up - assuming I like what I had and the service and reliability was not too horrible.

[Stan]

>>>>Nope, all new ECU. It's a Lotus T4 if I remember the model number correctly<<<<

Supposedly Lotus has it made for them by EFI Technologies located in LA, CA. Would be cool if we could find a way to tweak it.

[NMRJock]

Originally posted by cerven
I don't want the SC - I'll keep my Elise until the next generation Elise or whatever it is comes out then sell off and move up - assuming I like what I had and the service and reliability was not too horrible.

I think the bigger assumption is that the next gen. Elise will be a move up.

[aletes]

The next generation may be a step up in power, but I think the styling can only go downhill.

[evomind]

i think its more important that we look at the motor in relation to the engine bay....
i would post pics but they are very large and i dont know how to shrink them..

[Mean TT]

I think a supercharger system would be practical only if there was an efficient intercooling method. It seems that the supercharger itself is not a problem, but packaging and intercooling are. If there were only a way to have a positive displacement screw type supercharger, or efficient turbo system for a reasonable price I would be happy. I just want the power between 4-6k and a little more on the top end. I don't think that a stroker kit is nearly as practical as a Fi unit. I think it would be hard to give up the high redline, and subsequentally force shift points down.

On a side note, I have still not heard anything from any of the tuners I have contacted about a FI system, and will let you know if I do.

[Mean TT]

Originally posted by aletes
What are your thoughts on the intercooler and oil cooler design I proposed earlier in this thread? According to the manufacturers specifications, the solution should have cooling efficiency better than stock.

Also, I posted a link to a low RPM turbo kit for the 2ZZ yesterday. Any thoughts on that unit? I think the plumbing would be an issue, but there seemed to be enough space for the turbo itself.

When I get my car I will test the cooling system first, then move on the engine, then finally to FI.

I think that the system you proposed is efficient in theory, but there is one problem. Most tuning companies tune with an air to air intercooler, that is usually mounted in front of the car, and there is a 20 mph fan next to it. I think that there might be a lot of people who are not willing to touch a MR set up, much less a less efficient air to water system (the air can only be chilled to the water temperature, about 180-200 degrees).

I think that the flexibly cam lift means promlems for tuning as well. If you add fuel at 6,200 rpm, and then the rpms drop and the high cam is engaged at 5800, you might run a lean condition. I think this is why a supercharging system is a good solution, one less variable to deal with, as opposed to a turbochargers wide range of boost.

One concern I have is that I think any FI system is going to require a stand-alone ECU. That means non compliant emmisions, and a huge expense. A good system (reliable and legal) that could reflash the factory ECU would be preferable for me. It is clear that you have done you homework about the components, but I think that there is something that has been left out....tuning companies. I have no shame in admiting that I am not an expert about the ECU tuning. I have never done it, but know generalitiles such as good a/f ratios, etc. I hoep that you, or someone can come up with a reliable power adder for a reasonable cost, but untill I see it, it is all just theory.

My last cocern is mounting a lot of the compmentry above the engine, and therefore introducing the possibility of more heat soak. I think that the cooling system is fine, and doubt that a lot of changes need to be made to it unless road racing for extended periods of time are required. the additional oil and cooling capacity help reduce spikes. Also, the lines give the possibility of adding small coolers in the lines that are finned to dissipate more heat. If you know of a company that needs a car for development, I might be interested. P.M. me if you have managed to arrange an installation. I would like to be the 2nd or 3rd, but probably not the first....too many variables and the potential of mistakes.

[Racer X]

Does our system use MAF or is it a fully mapped system?

Greg

[aletes]

I don't have my hands on an Federal Elise / 111R manual set yet so I can't say for sure what type of system is used in the Federal Elise.

All I can say for sure is that Lotus used a MAP sensor in the Rover powered S1 and S2 versions of the Elise.

[Stan]

>>>Does our system use MAF or is it a fully mapped system? <<<

Both... The Maf is located on the airbox assembly. It's "A" in the picture below...

[aletes]

Thanks Stan!

[Racer X]

Since it is a mass air flow system, shouldn't it make it easier to boost and keep the fuel right? It flows more air so it flows more fuel. The ratios should stay right, if you have an indexed fuel pressure. OK, as long as you stay in the range of the MAF sensor.

OK, that is a little simplistic, but sound in theory.

The upside of middle of the night baby feedings is that you have time to look at the boards at 3:15AM!

Greg

[eliseowner2b]

I haven't checked this thread since page 1 several weeks ago. Now, it appears we may be able to produce a supercharger because of this thread!

[evomind]

yes, we can produce a supercharger...theres just a few nagging issues....space, compression ratio, and tuning are the biggest concerns....
im not 100% we need an intercooler per say....vortech's standard supercharger set up does not include one...granted, different setup with front engine cars, but im not convinced intercooling is such a big problem....worse comes to worst, if we cant intercool it, we just cant advance the timing as much.
im not even that concerned about tuning...im sure the stock ecu can be reflashed....
compression ratio can be fixed, although expensive...
basically it comes down to how much u are willing to pay for this setup.

[Arno]

Originally posted by aletes
The fuel pump may need to be upgraded as well to a 165, 210, or 255 lph in-tank pump.

Ah.. Removing the fueltank to install a new pump..

One of the Elise 'nightmare jobs'..

Have fun doing that!

Oh... And unless the Toyota powered Elises are different in this respect then the current fuel pump is not 'borrowed' from any other vehicle and is a custom design for Lotus.

Another route taken by people in europe who put Honda and Audi engines into these cars (because the fuel pump can't keep enough pressure at the right fuel flow when you start pushing more than 200HP, so the injectors are open almost 100% and still the mixture goes dangeously lean) is to let the stock pump be a 'low pressure' pump that just fills a swirl-pot. At such low pressures it can at least provide enough flow.

A second external high-pressure pump is then attached to the swirlpot to provide the required flow and pressure to the injectors for these kinds of power levels (up to 300HP now with the Audi engines)

Bye, Arno.

[911EATER]

A sc would be great. I would only want 10-20 more hp, but lots more low end torgue!!

[Randy Chase]

As posted on PSC-

I had the privelege to attend a Lotus Engineering presentation, in which they modified the current Yamaha (Toyota) engine to achieve 250HP @ 8000 rpm and 175 Lb.ft @ 7200 rpm.

Although the purpose of the experiment was for fuel efficiency, it's clear that this engine offers great potential.

It was accomplished with an Eaton M62 Roots blower with integral bypass, no modification of compression ratio, the production intercooler from the Opel Speedster Turbo, and a fifth injector at the plenum entry, together with a modified Lotus T4 engine management.

Impressive results in a small package. 32% increase in power, 27% increase in torque and 9% gain in fuel economy.

No indications that these mods will be fitted in production Elise according to Lotus Engineering

I was told many months ago, the goal is 245-255hp. This may be an option for the Exige. The question is, will it be an option for the Elise? Or will people be able to retrofit existing Elises? And at what cost?

[Vantage]

Originally posted by Randy Chase
As posted on PSC-




I was told many months ago, the goal is 245-255hp. This may be an option for the Exige. The question is, will it be an option for the Elise? Or will people be able to retrofit existing Elises? And at what cost?

I really think this is what the Exige needs to be taken more seriously as a top performance car that can be compared to Porsche and Ferrari on longer tracks where high HP wins the battle down the straights.

[shay2nak]

what PSC? puresportscar.com? Also it was funny to see that Lotus GAINED 9% in fuel economy. Sounds like Lotus has this setup down. Should we expect to see this engine early (1st quarter) next year?

[NtflBlueLiz]

If any of you have read the latest issue of the Lotus Engineering publication that came out about a week or so ago ( can't remember the name, comes by email) they talk about several technologies that Lotus Engineering is working on including FI applications and gasp! Vehicle dynamic stability control systems.