100% hypothetical question here: What would go into swapping an LS1 into an Elise? - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
 
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Old 02-04-2013, 02:25 PM   #1 (permalink)
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100% hypothetical question here: What would go into swapping an LS1 into an Elise?

As barely any of you may remember, im only 16 but ive been on the forum almost a year, I am a heavy lurker, as obviously I do not have a lotus.

My friends and I were talking about crazy engine swaps, and it made me think of this one.

What would go into it? Ive read and its something like 200lb heavier than the 2zz, could you balance out that weight?

Would it require a new clutch (im going with heavy yes on this one)

If you did EVERYTHING yourself, what would the end cost be?

What if you had a shop do it?

Thanks for humoring me everyone!!

I thought this was an intriguing question so I might as well see what you all have to think!


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Old 02-04-2013, 03:00 PM   #2 (permalink)
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This has been discussed before:
The Longitudinal Elise (discussion) - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community

The LS1 is a longitudinal, the 2zz is transverse. It would be a TON of work, and would require VERY skilled shop.

Like many questions on difficult modifications like this... typically if you need to ask about the how, then its not something you should take on. Even those that understand what would have to go into it, don't do it.

But yes at the end of the day an LS powered powered Elise would be pretty crazy. It would be like the Venom GT... and don't get LT on that topic or you will never hear the end of it.
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Old 02-04-2013, 03:06 PM   #3 (permalink)
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The whole point of an elise is the weight. The 2ZZ is quite able to supply sufficient power for the car. You will always find someone who "wants more" but there is also such a thing as a car with "too much power". I own an acura that fits squarely in that category with almost 600hp.

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Old 02-04-2013, 03:20 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: 100% hypothetical question here: What would go into swapping an LS1 into an Elise

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Originally Posted by WhatsADSM View Post
This has been discussed before:
The Longitudinal Elise (discussion) - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community

The LS1 is a longitudinal, the 2zz is transverse. It would be a TON of work, and would require VERY skilled shop.

Like many questions on difficult modifications like this... typically if you need to ask about the how, then its not something you should take on. Even those that understand what would have to go into it, don't do it.

But yes at the end of the day an LS powered powered Elise would be pretty crazy. It would be like the Venom GT... and don't get LT on that topic or you will never hear the end of it.
I see, I see... Like I stated before I don't even own a lotus, so this is all hypothetical.

I read the first page of the link you linked me too, and they mentioned a v6 turbo would probably fit in, and I read a thread on the internet about a guy with the biturbo v6 from the audi rs4 put into his elise, and it required some cutting and trimming of the rear clam.

That said, what would be the best fitting, highest power engine you could efficiently swap in the elise? Maybe I should switch the title to that

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Old 02-04-2013, 03:21 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: 100% hypothetical question here: What would go into swapping an LS1 into an Elise

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Originally Posted by hackish View Post
The whole point of an elise is the weight. The 2ZZ is quite able to supply sufficient power for the car. You will always find someone who "wants more" but there is also such a thing as a car with "too much power". I own an acura that fits squarely in that category with almost 600hp.

-Michael
Wow may I ask what acura?

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Old 02-04-2013, 03:54 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Most people here won't answer your question, but only give you advice you didn't want.
So, I'll try to answer.
Presuming you're going to do all the work yourself, and you have all the tools to do it: not too much.. I'm presuming here you'll buy some stuff used.

Metal for the subframe: $250
fiberglass: :$200
paint: $1000
Engine: $6000
engine management: $1500
Transmission :$2000
CVs: :$500
Wheels tires brakes: $3000
Exhaust: $300
Misc bolts, fluids, supplies. $1000.

There you go. an LSx swap for $15,000 or so..
Presuming you have all the tools, and do all the work yourself.
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Old 02-04-2013, 04:21 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I think you might be better off swapping in the LS4 from a Grand Prix.
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Old 02-04-2013, 04:30 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: 100% hypothetical question here: What would go into swapping an LS1 into an Elise

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Originally Posted by antinym View Post
Most people here won't answer your question, but only give you advice you didn't want.
So, I'll try to answer.
Presuming you're going to do all the work yourself, and you have all the tools to do it: not too much.. I'm presuming here you'll buy some stuff used.

Metal for the subframe: $250
fiberglass: :$200
paint: $1000
Engine: $6000
engine management: $1500
Transmission :$2000
CVs: :$500
Wheels tires brakes: $3000
Exhaust: $300
Misc bolts, fluids, supplies. $1000.

There you go. an LSx swap for $15,000 or so..
Presuming you have all the tools, and do all the work yourself.


Thank you!

I have some questions on your hypothesis of the cost...

What is the paint for?

And I just looked for ls1 for sale and found a few low milage ones for around 2k... wouldn't this significantly bring down the end cost?---I just looked again and it seems I was incorrect about this!

Also, why new wheels and tires? I can understand new brakes, but not new tires and wheels!

Again, thank you for actually giving an answer!

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Old 02-04-2013, 05:18 PM   #9 (permalink)
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ONE MILLION DOLLARS
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Old 02-04-2013, 05:20 PM   #10 (permalink)
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it obviously cost 1.6 million (hennessy venom gt)
putting any V8 motor would require a FORD GT transmission its one of the only mid-engine american cars from this generation, thats trans new is 15k
ive done serious thought about doin this but with the new 5.0 direct injection coyote motor from the new mustang and the ford gt trans with a 3.4 whipple or even turbos.
i have come to the conclusion it will cost close to 45,000 by the end.
considering my current 2zz turbo build cost me in the mid 30k range so far.
its all custom fab work so figure an astronomical amount of time and cost.

just take ronins new 211. its been almost 1 year since that started and its still at like 90%
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Old 02-04-2013, 05:24 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett1021 View Post
Thank you!

I have some questions on your hypothesis of the cost...

What is the paint for?
It's for painting the new fiberglass body bits that you had to fabricate to make room for the larger wheels. You'd probably also want to craft more aggressive aero parts as well.

Quote:
Also, why new wheels and tires? I can understand new brakes, but not new tires and wheels!
Because a car is an engineered system and not a mere a collection of random parts. You would need wider tires in the back to be able to effectively convert the powerful engine into usable motion. And, with wider tires in the back you need wider tires in the front now to prevent understeer.

The point is, the whole car is a system, and changing ONE thing can force you to change almost EVERYTHING. A buddy of mine shoved an LS3 engine into a Miata. Other than the frame and bodywork of the Miata, he didn't keep much else.

Here's his blog. Look at the parts list for an idea of what this man had to do.
http://www.axwaresystems.com/MX5/
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Old 02-04-2013, 05:30 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: 100% hypothetical question here: What would go into swapping an LS1 into an Elise

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It's for painting the new fiberglass body bits that you had to fabricate to make room for the larger wheels. You'd probably also want to craft more aggressive aero parts as well.



Because a car is an engineered system and not a mere a collection of random parts. You would need wider tires in the back to be able to effectively convert the powerful engine into usable motion. And, with wider tires in the back you need wider tires in the front now to prevent understeer.

The point is, the whole car is a system, and changing ONE thing can force you to change almost EVERYTHING. A buddy of mine shoved an LS3 engine into a Miata. Other than the frame and bodywork of the Miata, he didn't keep much else.

Here's his blog. Look at the parts list for an idea of what this man had to do.
http://www.axwaresystems.com/MX5/
Thank you for all the information!

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Old 02-04-2013, 05:31 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: 100% hypothetical question here: What would go into swapping an LS1 into an Elise

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ONE MILLION DOLLARS
Hahahaha


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Old 02-04-2013, 05:34 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: 100% hypothetical question here: What would go into swapping an LS1 into an Elise

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it obviously cost 1.6 million (hennessy venom gt)
putting any V8 motor would require a FORD GT transmission its one of the only mid-engine american cars from this generation, thats trans new is 15k
ive done serious thought about doin this but with the new 5.0 direct injection coyote motor from the new mustang and the ford gt trans with a 3.4 whipple or even turbos.
i have come to the conclusion it will cost close to 45,000 by the end.
considering my current 2zz turbo build cost me in the mid 30k range so far.
its all custom fab work so figure an astronomical amount of time and cost.

just take ronins new 211. its been almost 1 year since that started and its still at like 90%
lotussport.org
Wow 30k for the turbo build? I was looking at superchargers, and one that should net you around 275hp, would be around 6k, and it said it would work with the stock trans. Would I be a fool to think you can get a complete supercharge kit done for under 10k? Netting about 275hp?

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Old 02-04-2013, 05:44 PM   #15 (permalink)
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if your on a budget, stick to a supercharger.
there is a lot of factors when building a car that you dont realize when adding forced induction.
ive owned a lot of cars and ive built most of them, when i stared i was like "7k for a whipple, nice thats it" lol there is fuel, cooling, tunning, tires, clutch, axels, water pumps, ecu to allow you to tune, and plenty more.
the key is doing ALLLLLLLLLL the research you can before you get in to a project. a nice vf supercharger kit for like 4500-5500 is great, comes with a tune and everything you need, just get a walboro255 and some tires probably a new clutch after you shredd up the streets and youll be close to 6500-7k and the only thing you need to worry about is regular maintence car will make like 260whpish on a good day and it will be ALOT of fun and very reliable.

the 2zz is a great motor and its very easy to maintain
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Old 02-05-2013, 05:29 AM   #16 (permalink)
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it obviously cost 1.6 million (hennessy venom gt)
putting any V8 motor would require a FORD GT transmission its one of the only mid-engine american cars from this generation, thats trans new is 15k
I put $2000 down for the Porsche Cayman Transmission. It should handle stock LS1 power with no problem. There'll be some custom bell housing work, but, if you have the tools and the metal, that shouldn't be to hard.

Also, the Porsche G50(?) trans works, too. turn it around and upside down, like the the Factory Five GTM guys do... they are $2000-3000 ish.
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Old 02-05-2013, 06:22 AM   #17 (permalink)
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who wants to give an estimate of time, going on the assumption one has the skills to pull this off. Il start the bidding at 4500 hrs.

I wouldent feel comfortable putting 400+ ft lbs (x gear reduction) through 4 lug hubs and stock suspension pick ups either. Oh yeah you will have to redo the cooling system as well.

It is easier, cheaper, and makes more sence to strip a couple hundred lbs from a corvette, imho.
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Old 02-05-2013, 06:42 AM   #18 (permalink)
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re: LS1 into a Lotus

I agree that the whole car shoud be a complete system.

Lotus built a great aluminum chasis.

I built a wider body to handle more power. See 'Elise Widebody' in racing forum. I did not stretch the wheelbase. It would not ber very hard to do. To make it streetable would be more work.

I upgraded the hubs, brakes, wheels, tires and the engine, as well.

I like LS motors. Great power for great price! When you think about it. I have a turbocharged Honda K20. It is 700hp. With the turbo it is only 150lbs lighter then an LS7. It is not that much cheaper Still 150lbs is 150lbs.... Transaxle is the biggest problem. A transaxle for an LS7 or a strong transverse one for a Honda/Toyota motor is hasrd to find and $$$. Up to
$40k.

I think Subaru drive train is an option. It almost fits!!! and it is longtitudonal. it is supposed to light and there are better trannys available. As always power = $$. How much poer do you want?

Perhaps swtching to a chrome moly tube frame from the aluminum chassis is thenext step? Then we would have a GTM or similar....
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Old 02-05-2013, 06:47 AM   #19 (permalink)
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I put $2000 down for the Porsche Cayman Transmission. It should handle stock LS1 power with no problem. There'll be some custom bell housing work, but, if you have the tools and the metal, that shouldn't be to hard.

Also, the Porsche G50(?) trans works, too. turn it around and upside down, like the the Factory Five GTM guys do... they are $2000-3000 ish.
Yea there are a lot more options for transmissions than just a ford gt. G50 is the most common.

And FWIW there was a lot missing from your estimate. Shifting mechanism, custom dash, axles/rear hubs, oil cooling, fuel system, gas pedal/cable, clutch work, custom trans adapter all jump out at me. I also think you are grossly underestimating the body work associated with the wheelbase extention. The triangular frame pieces, and underbody aero would also need to be dealt with.

Even DIY I would be surprised if anyone actually completed a NICE LS build for under 30k.
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Old 02-05-2013, 07:30 AM   #20 (permalink)
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As barely any of you may remember, im only 16 but ive been on the forum almost a year, I am a heavy lurker, as obviously I do not have a lotus.

My friends and I were talking about crazy engine swaps, and it made me think of this one.

What would go into it? Ive read and its something like 200lb heavier than the 2zz, could you balance out that weight?

Would it require a new clutch (im going with heavy yes on this one)

If you did EVERYTHING yourself, what would the end cost be?

What if you had a shop do it?

Thanks for humoring me everyone!!

I thought this was an intriguing question so I might as well see what you all have to think!


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