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Old 01-18-2012, 05:03 PM   #1 (permalink)
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BOE REV 400 TVS

Just ordered this system from Turbo Phil, very excited 400hp!!!

I love my Katana2 SC system but power is like crack and sex you can never get enough!! Lol

I'm selling my Katana2 Complete system (in for sale area).

I can't wait to install this system and feel the difference.

I'm also installing PTX wideband 02 and KIWI Wifi data logging to my iPad, I can also send the data to Phil for analysis and re-tune if needed. Pretty slick I hope.

Will keep you posted of the progress.
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Old 01-18-2012, 05:33 PM   #2 (permalink)
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That's freaking insane. How much did the kit cost you?
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Old 01-18-2012, 06:01 PM   #3 (permalink)
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ya.... its not 400hp
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Old 01-18-2012, 06:57 PM   #4 (permalink)
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How does Phil deal with it on stock engines? Bigger blower pulley I assume?
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Old 01-18-2012, 07:17 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I think partially he sets it up with a "milder tune"? for a street car/stock motor. - I'm in the same position in April.. Can't wait. I almost went Katana, REV300, REV400, but decided it's better to start at the end. If that makes any sense. Congrats frostycomer.
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Old 01-18-2012, 07:29 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I think partially he sets it up with a "milder tune"? for a street car/stock motor. - I'm in the same position in April.. Can't wait. I almost went Katana, REV300, REV400, but decided it's better to start at the end. If that makes any sense. Congrats frostycomer.
"Milder tune" likely means a bigger blower pulley for less boost and the corresponding ECU tune for it.

I wonder what it makes on the stock engine?
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Old 01-19-2012, 03:24 AM   #7 (permalink)
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The system is not maxed out in terms of intercooler capacity, supercharger efficiency map/boost, fueling capacity etc. There is margin to dial in your power goals and risk factor. If you install the kit, up the boost from standard issue, with an appropriate tune, on a stock engine you are not likely to have a problem on even a stock engine. Yes, you are at a greater risk than a Katana/BWR/VF1 etc. low boost kit. Any increased output is always an increase in the possibility of something failing, the basic SC setup that Lotus uses increases the risk because you are adding an SC to a NA engine, yet they stick a full warranty on it because the risk although increased is still low. When you play in the bigger boost kits you just need to accept the elevated risk but understand that it isn't what the nay sayers make it out to be.
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Old 01-19-2012, 03:39 AM   #8 (permalink)
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i was wondering the same thing, but apparently is faster than the Rev 300 w/the stock engine....according to someone else's post.I'm hoping for enough power to evade those huge Porsche SUV's driven by rude and dangerous pilots that invade our region every summer. With the factory cat, stock pistons etc, I'm hoping for 265? at the wheels. I really don't know , the number isn't that important to me,I'd just feel silly to go thru all this now, just to start w/ REV300 & want to upgrade to 400 later. So I'm biting the bullet. My n/a car is currently maybe 165hp at the wheels. I'm thinking I'll notice the difference. I think the cam vvt point gets lowered too, but I'm not positive. You gotta get the clutch & some toe links & mounts to do this responsibly. Just wish BOE had an equally cool oil cooler solution...I'm not holding my breath for Lotus to get our acts together despite their promises of recall.. But I'll have a heated shop next winter, and maybe I can bribe some local folks to come over and help me through it. Everything changes when you have a good place to work. I just need the car to make it to next December without blowing the oil cooler lines.....
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Old 01-19-2012, 10:09 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Subarubrat View Post
The system is not maxed out in terms of intercooler capacity, supercharger efficiency map/boost, fueling capacity etc. There is margin to dial in your power goals and risk factor. If you install the kit, up the boost from standard issue, with an appropriate tune, on a stock engine you are not likely to have a problem on even a stock engine. Yes, you are at a greater risk than a Katana/BWR/VF1 etc. low boost kit. Any increased output is always an increase in the possibility of something failing, the basic SC setup that Lotus uses increases the risk because you are adding an SC to a NA engine, yet they stick a full warranty on it because the risk although increased is still low. When you play in the bigger boost kits you just need to accept the elevated risk but understand that it isn't what the nay sayers make it out to be.
So.... that statement reminds me of the Geico commercial:
"You may save up to 20% or more on your car insurance"
It means nothing.

Right on BOEs site it says the Rev400 is designed for cars with a built motor. I can't imagine someone as smart and experienced with the Elise would say that for no reason.

So that brings up my earlier question. How does he handle the 400 kit on a stock motor. I would *assume* it is a lower boost pulley and less aggressive tune... but I guess I am more curious about the boost. You can certainly pull out power with just less aggressive tuning on the ignition timing and fuel, but still the big power reduction is going to come from a boost change.

Paging Phil.... care to answer? I'm sure there are people out there that would love to run a 400 on a stock motor, but would love to know what is done to help ensure as much reliability as possible, and how much power that means the "400" will actually put out.

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Originally Posted by komiko View Post
i was wondering the same thing, but apparently is faster than the Rev 300 w/the stock engine....according to someone else's post.I'm hoping for enough power to evade those huge Porsche SUV's driven by rude and dangerous pilots that invade our region every summer. With the factory cat, stock pistons etc, I'm hoping for 265? at the wheels. I really don't know , the number isn't that important to me,I'd just feel silly to go thru all this now, just to start w/ REV300 & want to upgrade to 400 later. So I'm biting the bullet. My n/a car is currently maybe 165hp at the wheels. I'm thinking I'll notice the difference. I think the cam vvt point gets lowered too, but I'm not positive. You gotta get the clutch & some toe links & mounts to do this responsibly. Just wish BOE had an equally cool oil cooler solution...I'm not holding my breath for Lotus to get our acts together despite their promises of recall.. But I'll have a heated shop next winter, and maybe I can bribe some local folks to come over and help me through it. Everything changes when you have a good place to work. I just need the car to make it to next December without blowing the oil cooler lines.....
BOE does make some oil cooler stuff but not an off-the-shelf kit. If you are willing to do a little DIY work he has a Setrab cooler that fits well in the back of the Elise/Exige. I actually have one for my car.
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Old 01-19-2012, 10:28 AM   #10 (permalink)
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So.... that statement reminds me of the Geico commercial:
"You may save up to 20% or more on your car insurance"
It means nothing.

Right on BOEs site it says the Rev400 is designed for cars with a built motor. I can't imagine someone as smart and experienced with the Elise would say that for no reason.

So that brings up my earlier question. How does he handle the 400 kit on a stock motor. I would *assume* it is a lower boost pulley and less aggressive tune... but I guess I am more curious about the boost. You can certainly pull out power with just less aggressive tuning on the ignition timing and fuel, but still the big power reduction is going to come from a boost change.

Paging Phil.... care to answer? I'm sure there are people out there that would love to run a 400 on a stock motor, but would love to know what is done to help ensure as much reliability as possible, and how much power that means the "400" will actually put out.



BOE does make some oil cooler stuff but not an off-the-shelf kit. If you are willing to do a little DIY work he has a Setrab cooler that fits well in the back of the Elise/Exige. I actually have one for my car.
Phil would do a bigger pulley and a less aggressive tune. I talked to him about this before.


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Old 01-19-2012, 10:35 AM   #11 (permalink)
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I Believe the power increase comes from a mixture of cooler more dense charge with the charge cooler and slightly higher boost with better flow at higher rpm's with the TVS SC, better fueling, better intake flow and free flow exhaust (de-cat). I very excited to get it and play with it. I assume the risk of blowing stuff up, it just means I have to build the engine stronger next time. These kit's are not for everybody. I dont think you will find any tuner guarantee indispensability. Thats the risk we take.

Cant wait to find out.
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Old 01-19-2012, 10:38 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Phil would do a bigger pulley and a less aggressive tune. I talked to him about this before.


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Ok that's a more definitive answer. Did he give you any indication as to the expected power output with that tune on the stock engine?
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Old 01-19-2012, 10:43 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Ok that's a more definitive answer. Did he give you any indication as to the expected power output with that tune on the stock engine?
I think he did but I can't quite remember what it was.. I don't think he would want it putting out too much more power then the rev300 for safety factors and I don't remember if the boost is even lower because of the after cooler..


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Old 01-19-2012, 10:46 AM   #14 (permalink)
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So.... that statement reminds me of the Geico commercial:
"You may save up to 20% or more on your car insurance"
It means nothing.
It is based on my actual experience with the progression through both a Revo300, Revo400, and Revo400+, and many other cars.

Quote:
Right on BOEs site it says the Rev400 is designed for cars with a built motor. I can't imagine someone as smart and experienced with the Elise would say that for no reason.
They boiler plate that because there are people out there who will take the slightest suggestion that a stock engine can be run at double the stock HP and have total reliability as an ironclad promise and promptly blame the tuner if they have a problem.

Quote:
So that brings up my earlier question. How does he handle the 400 kit on a stock motor. I would *assume* it is a lower boost pulley and less aggressive tune... but I guess I am more curious about the boost. You can certainly pull out power with just less aggressive tuning on the ignition timing and fuel, but still the big power reduction is going to come from a boost change.
That is the nature of the internet, where assumption is trumpeted over actual experience. My ACTUAL experience has been over 10k miles on the TVS running more boost than the stock Revo400, and a more aggressive tune. It has performed wonderfully and I accept the greater risk. If the motor lunches I understand that I pushed it, and would not blame the tuner. And I would slap in a built replacement with an ear to ear grin. Corky Bell, a godfather of forced induction said it best; "It is seldom increased output that causes in engine to fail, it is poor engine management." I have no knock/ping, EGTs are solid, and AFR is right where it should be.
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Old 01-19-2012, 11:03 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I gotta think there are no disadvantages to going intercooled with the rev series of kits except weight and price. This provided of course there is a detuned version for stock internals. Id rather have 265 whp intercooled than 265 whp non IC'd provided both had the same TVS compressor.
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Old 01-19-2012, 11:09 AM   #16 (permalink)
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So I originally intended the 400 kit for the built motor crowd with standalones, etc. Subiebrat hit the nail on the head with his post. I'll add to it, but really his post is perfect... He posted after I typed all this up, so I'll post it anyway!

In the case of car like my race car, Fred's XP car, Clayton's track toy, etc we have well over 400bhp. We have cams, custom tuning, good exhaust, etc. At some point, the power exceeds what you'll get in the box. However, what comes out the box isn't bad. Look at Fred's street car. In full street trim, stock compression, a good exhaust, and a nice stereo with sub, he did an 11.9 @120mph in the quarter. There's no dyno trickery in that! That ain't bad right out of the box!

A more modified car like, Darksol did low 11s at 124mph (not a stock motor)...

As it turns out, I don't know the market well and MOST of the 400s have been going on stock motors and/or stock compression like Subiebrat above, among many others actually.

So for stock, rather than running a 70mm pulley, *or so*, we the drop the boost back down, adjust the tune etc. For an example, there is a dyno on my website of a stock motor with stock headers, decat, and straight through muffler on the off-the-shelf Kold-fire flash tune we did that was making 307whp on 91 octane summer gas (our gas turns to crrap in the winter). Correct for a 15% power loss, that's 361bhp.

The setup obviously has the headroom for much greater numbers, as I have dyno pulls of 350whp with headers and lower compression with smaller pulley and 395whp with the addition of cams, more cooling, etc. That's about 410bhp and 460bhp respectively... Rev400 is just about right in the middle of the bhp range of what it has made.

MOST of our Rev400 clients and friends are track junkies. Some live on the track and some go just a half a dozen times a year. Certainly, the majority of kits, 400 included, are going on stock motors...

As for longevity of the motor, anyone should know it's a crap shoot when you're on the track. I can honestly say that we've had VERY good success with stock motors holding up, which is surprising! I know of a local car (a 310 kit car) that was npthing short of the "little engine that could". He had a stock oil pan, no fuel starve solution, money shifted from time to time, ran slicks, tracked on pump gas and that motor just went on and on. He never missed a track day with it. That motor sohuld have died. It never did! On the other hand, I built a motor this winter for a NA car, that replaced his stock blown motor. He had a baffled oil pan and the fuel starve fix, but a ring land broke. I've rebuilt several motors where valve stems broke for no good reason. Some of these motors do wonderfully and others don't. You tend to hear more about the latter. The same is true about transmissions!

The inconvenient truth is that these are econobox CELICA motors that were designed to make 175bhp and cruise down the highway at 4,000RPM. Nobody should be surprised if their stock 190bhp Lotus engine pops while averaging over 7500RPM around a track for an extended period of time--- let alone one that makes double the intended horsepower... The good news is that the short comings of the motor are pretty cheaply and easily remedied thanks to the econobox production numbers. Econobox is bittersweet to be sure!

Hope that helps!

Phil
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Old 01-19-2012, 11:22 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Fantastic post Phil! The takeaway I'm getting is, "it depends, and we can handle it". Basically, the Rev kits have pre-set power intentions [i.e. Rev400 w/stock engine & Rev400 w/forged lower compression pistons], however they're flexible based on individual requirements.

I look forward to reading more about frostycomer's build story and new-found power.
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Old 01-19-2012, 11:38 AM   #18 (permalink)
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...Just wish BOE had an equally cool oil cooler solution......

I don't remember you asking... I'm still not sure when we will "kit" the oil cooler relo we've been running, as we're just jammed on kitting up some new goodies we tested on the car last season. Hope ya'll like them! As for the oil cooler relo, we've installed several of them and can certainly hook you up at the shop on a one-off basis if we still haven't kitted the whole thing for internet sale...

Cheers,

Phil
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Old 01-19-2012, 11:39 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Basically, the Rev kits have pre-set power intentions [i.e. Rev400 w/stock engine & Rev400 w/forged lower compression pistons], however they're flexible based on individual requirements...
Exactly! We literally build every kit to suit to the specific need/build. We have 4 of them on the assembly bench right now to go out next week... All 4 are different in one way or another...
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Old 01-19-2012, 12:23 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I don't remember you asking... I'm still not sure when we will "kit" the oil cooler relo we've been running, as we're just jammed on kitting up some new goodies we tested on the car last season. Hope ya'll like them! As for the oil cooler relo, we've installed several of them and can certainly hook you up at the shop on a one-off basis if we still haven't kitted the whole thing for internet sale...

Cheers,

Phil
sign me up please for the oil cooler relocation if our time window allows for it.. (I'll give you a phone call, but I'll wait till we're a little closer to bother you with it.) You can even leave the old twin coolers/lines in if we're tight on time and I can strip them out this next winter, when my heated shop comes online.. What i really need is the peace of mind knowing that my oil lines are not going to fall off the damn fittings...the day after the REV400 goes in. I'm fine w/the risk i'm taking w/the REV install, but I can't see risking it ALL on the Lotus crimp technique for the oil loop. If there is a way to just replace the fittings & connectors on the existing loop - that works too I guess. Whatever gets us there.
"You pay your money,and you take your chances". I'm really fine with that. Sort of the way the world works anyway.
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Build thread :
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