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Track-only Elise or track-only Miata?

14K views 33 replies 23 participants last post by  RX-78 Gundam 
#1 ·
I'm looking to get a track-only car, and I'm having trouble deciding between concentrating my search on a fully track-prepped Elise vs a fully track-prepped Miata (along the lines of an ND MX-5 Cup car). While the up-front cost would be painful for either car, I'm just not sure how ongoing maintenance/running costs would compare. I'd like this car to have maximum flexibility for years to come. For now it would be used for HPDE track weekends, but down the road ideally i'd be able to race it if I decided to go that route.

I'm a total Lotus geek (would be keeping my '12 Evora S), so would love to keep it in the lotus family, but my main concern with the Elise would be a minor fender bender turning into a massive repair bill. I know I can get "race" clams for cheaper than OEM clams, but how susceptible is the underlying aluminum subframe to being unrepairable in the event of a mishap?

Any thoughts/opinions welcome.
 
#3 ·
Spec Miatas are pretty quick; reliable; easier to fix; cheaper to repair.

Bodywork costs are too high in Elise vs. cheap for Miata. Even race version clams are $$.

Are there more classes and places to race a Miata? IDK.
 
#4 ·
Spec Miata always has huge fields. Inexpensive (relatively speaking) way to get into an SCCA event. Lots of support too. Something breaks at a race? No problem, 30 other Miata drivers willing to lend a hand or lend parts.
If you're in an area where they have Lotus Cup races, then that might be a closer/tougher decision.

Good luck and update the thread.
 
#7 ·
I was hoping you guys would push me towards the Elise, but sounds like the group opinion is leaning heavily Miata (the Elise is so much cooler though, haha).

My main goal is to develop my driving skills as much as possible. Which of the two do you think would handle most similarly to an Evora? Ideally I'd like the handling similarities to be as much as possible so that my driving skills would transfer easiest.

The ND MX-5 Cup car is pretty awesome I agree... just doesn't get the blood flowing like an Elise for me, that's all.
 
#17 ·
My main goal is to develop my driving skills as much as possible.
Based on this statement by itself, I would recommend any momentum car. The Miata is a momentum car. You want a low-powered car so that you are forced to learn the nuances of the corner and the car. In a race, you learn how to look and think far ahead so that you can plan your passes so that no momentum will be lost. In a momentum car, use of the brakes will immediately inspire you to find a way to never touch the brake again because the car is so unresponsive to throttle. Use the brake, lose the race.

Which of the two do you think would handle most similarly to an Evora? Ideally I'd like the handling similarities to be as much as possible so that my driving skills would transfer easiest.
I have found that driving lots of different cars helps me learn techniques worth trying in all the others.
 
#8 · (Edited)
If you would have said your goal is to have a fun track toy and budget wasn't a consideration but not a top priority, then you'd have people saying get the lotus. For everything else the answer is miata

maximum flexibility (hpde and easy to find race series): miata
develop skills as much as possible (aka free yourself from worrying about having an off): miata
most budget friendly: miata
 
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#10 ·
Well obviously a mid engined will be more like a mid engined.

Track days are one thing, where we (hopefully) enter turns with a clear gentleman's agreement as to who is coming out of the turn first. Racing is often quite different.

Since I wanted to (1) drive any Lotus fast and (2) develop my driving skills, it was easy for me to decide to slowly develop the Elise as a track car and only do track days.

Racing? Costs? Miata is ideal.
 
#14 ·
Here in Houston there is an independent mechanic who track preps both Miata's and Elise's. It might be a good idea to give him a call to get a feel for costs of each route. His name is Cliff and his company is Gas Head Motorworks. I don't track my Elise so I can't tell more about him than I already have.
 
#12 ·
I don't know much about the specifics of the types of races you can enter and compete in; but it sounds to me like you want to be able to use the Elise, but know that the Miata is a more reasonable route.

After having owned and driven a highly modified Miata for several years; nothing quite feels like a lightweight mid-engine rwd car to me. That's why I suggest considering an mr2 or mr2 Spyder.
 
#13 ·
If it'll hurt you to buy a track car financially on the front end, just wait until you try to deal with the maintenance on the back end. The track environment is hard on cars, making maintenance/repairs a very important part of the equation. In this area the Miata wins hands down. Go with the Miata...and get in touch with Emilio at 949 Racing.
 
#15 ·
I agree that hands down the Miata is less expensive all the way around.
However, I believe strongly that the Elise translates much closer to the Evora than the Miata does on track. Not only in handling but in closer power to weight ratios. And of course in simple fun factor with the Elise is in my opinion, the clear winner. The Lotus simply handles better and is faster on track.
The Elise chassis and sub frames are quite stout and difficult to damage in track driving excluding a major incident with a concrete wall. I have had major contact with a tire wall with only body (front clam) damage, a front A-arm and steering rack. The chassis was fine and straight. I think you may want to keep in mind when deciding between the two that you need not keep the Elise in car show condition and minor dings and tears to body work can be repaired and not replaced. I have had a 2005 and a 2006 track only Lotus Elise and both are still being tracked and raced quite successfully by their current owners. I have been tracking and racing an Evora for the last 4 years so I have made the transition from the two cars.
This is not meant to slam Miata's, they are great track cars...just not the same as a Lotus!
 
#18 ·
Another point. What sort of cars will you be out with? In HPDEs, Miata are almost always the rolling chicanes on the straights, but can be formidable in the twisties. Eliges are similar from the perspective of the very fast cars, but not to anything like the degree of the Mazda.
 
#29 ·
This also depends on what kind of racing he chooses with a Miata. If he chooses the SpecMiata route, this isn't a factor because it's a level playing field and momentum/skill is the main factor.

If, however, he's choosing to do HPDEs it's true...but only if he chooses this route with a SpecMiata.

Another route to go is the SuperMiata route, which has a classing based system which allows unlimited upgrading of the Miata including forced induction and suspension upgrades which opens up all sorts of possibilities...and also allows removes the SpecMiata upgrade restraints for people who want a higher performance experience. This means his Miata could be upgraded to the point of being competitive in open HPDEs (shedding the "rolling chicane in the straights" issue) as well as still being able to participate in the SuperMiata series http://http://supermiata.com/

SuperMiata prepped cars have been very competitive in open class racing, including the 24 Hours of Thunderhill.
 
#19 ·
Love my Elise to death as a time trial car, but I will NEVER EVER race it.

Clams are way too expensive and not readily available. In racing, you will make body contact at some point. You need big money to race a Lotus and from what I've seen it gets highly penalized for its low weight against the competition. The Miata is a much more viable option if you have your heart set on wheel-to-wheel racing. In addition, more people will be racing against you, which makes things much more fun.

Like others have said, a time trial or track-day toy is very different from a dedicated race car competing in a race series. No one ever said how much fun they're having, missing two or more events, because they're waiting on parts from Lotus and are out thousands of dollars.

Miata is the clear winner for racing! Again, the Lotus is a completely enthralling experience to drive. However, not so enthralling when you need to replace Lotus specific parts :-0
 
#20 ·
Here is an example of what you can expect in racing.



You won't find a grid of Lotus that large in the States. Closest would be LotusCup, which I believe would be a smaller field, but from what I've seen is also more of a gentleman's racing series.

Spec Miata is cut throat, very competitive and usually loaded with cars.

 
#28 ·
That's what i've been doing... I'm just increasingly wary of banging the car up in an off-track "excursion". Even a minor scrape would give me a heart attack if it ever happened.

If I had an older, track-only car, I'd be less freaked out with bumps/bruises to body panels if they were to happen. Not to mention, The Elise has race clams that are cheaper (not cheap, but cheaper) than OEM by a significant margin. OEM Evora clams are still nauseatingly expensive.
 
#30 ·
I tracked a NA elsie for 4 years. Your'e looking at $400 per day in consumables including tires, a miata maybe 250-300.
Having driven both on track i can say a miata may be fun racing against other miata, and thye handle great, but its essentialy a slug and therefore all momentum.

For tracking a bit of power and a nice car is part of the whole thing, and nothing under 80K will compare to an elsie its mid engined and exotic, even something like a cayman is just not the same thing. Plus an elsie is still a momentum car so great to learn in. Yes a crash can be expensive and a miata is 15k so practicaly disposable. But a good elise is really a solid car and wont break, or break the bank, and its performance is infinitely upgradeble. More or less stock an elsie will stay with anything on corners and the Na motor can still overpower the car on some corners.

Start with a NA car and with track pac shocks, or get nitrons from sector 111. Otehr than that you need the baffled sump, toe links and the stock rotors wont last long with track pads.
As an example my stock rotors warped on track within days, and the sector rotors lasted 4 years in front and the rears are still fine, thats runnign a rs14 pad which is really agressive on rotors.

If you decide to go into racing on a budget a miaata is the way to go, but to race you need a tow vehicle etc.

You can prbably find a good spec miata for 20k, and an elsie is going to be around 30 plus maybe $100 more per day to run. But if I offered you the choice of running a ferrari 458 on track, or a subaru BRZ which would you go for, because while both handle, there is a vast performance difference and one is just way cooler than the other.

If you can swing an elsie its a no brainer, if years down the road you want to race, then you can can change to something then.,

Bear in mind also that racing requires a tremendous time comitment and budget, whereas tracking is tremendous fun and on your timescale.
 
#31 ·
Really good points! This is also "know thy self", with the caveat that its ok to change your mind later.

I've done a few track days in my lotus, including one event where the session began just like a rolling start race. For me, the idea of racing is awesome but reality is I would quickly get serious about it along with the requirements of time and money for success. I'm never going to be a racing legend and I just want to show up and go fast with some good folks, the only person I am interested in competing with is myself... so track days fit the bill for me because I think the lotus is sexier than the miata. :UK:
 
#32 ·
We all go in to "compete with myself". That goes out the window as soon as we get near a well matched car/driver. "I can catch this guy!" "He's not getting any closer to me on this lap!"

Great way to make friends in the paddock though. "Was that you in the Lotus?"
 
#33 ·
After pushing a 427 Cobra replica around the track ay HPDE's for a number of years it was time to make a change. I considered all as you are and decided on a track only 2005 Elise. I see Miata's in front of me and behind out there, it depends on the driver more than the car.There has not been one moment where I thought about , did I make the right decision ? Thoroughly happy and please with my little beast. Have upgraded with full roll cage, Bilstein shocks , MR2 transaxle and spoiler. Hoosier's work great also. Good luck with what ever you decide.
 
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