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Wiped cam options

11K views 62 replies 23 participants last post by  acslater 
#1 · (Edited)
Discovered my intake cam is wiped. Looks like I'll need rockers as well. I know this is common with the 111R.

Is there any dealership / lotus goodwill repair ?
What is the cost to have it fixed at lotus - or at Toyota?????

I'm pretty sure I can do this repair myself. How much for parts?

Not the way I wanted to start my lotus ownership. This sucks. ?
 

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#4 ·
Sorry to hear about your cams. I'm guessing from your use of 111R that you are not in the U.S. This forum is mainly American owners so if you want an estimate on parts you might want to try posting on SELOC. AFAIK, dealers don't repair this.
 
#6 ·
Telling us what city you're in would actually help alot..
 
#12 ·
i think $600 in parts is too much... i bought the cam and rocker set from a Toyota dealer for a bit over $200 (i haven't changed it yet because i wanted to learn more about how the wear progresses). the set is likely incomplete because it does not have the cup like shim piece that goes on the valve and sets the clearance.

if you weren't on the west side of the State I'd offer to help if you wanted to diy.
 
#13 · (Edited)
#18 ·
I wish somebody offered a cam+decat+muffler+tune. Seems just replacing the cams with aftermarket is a waste because of the stock tune. At least it doesn't seem like there is any real dyno results that show a worthwhile reason to go aftermarket and forget about cam wipe issues.
 
#23 ·
"enlighten us"? That's not an appropriate tone. I see that you're new to the forum. Welcome. Those of us who have been here a while have seen several theories come and go. There are years worth of posts on wiped cams on this site. Our resident experts have seen wiped cams independent of lash setting. I suggest searching turbophil's posts. Here's a good start.

http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/4182177-post228.html
 
#26 ·
Let's all get our hackles back down here and focus on the problem with the cams, not the problem with how easy it is to misinterpret tone via text on a screen.

Are all the Elige's prone to this wear or is it just random engines that were pushed too hard? Does anyone know preventative maintenance for this? Thank you.
 
#27 ·
Everything I'm going to write here is basically regurgitating posts that Phil has made in the past. I believe I've seen it reported on nearly every year of car, although later cars are very rare so of course, it is reported less often. Make sense since the cam cover, cam and follower PNs are the same independent of year. Factory installed cams and replacement cams have all wiped. Most people will tell you to use an oil with high levels of zddp to ensure the follower/cam interface has good lubrication. There's no reported correlation to oil though. As Phil has stated many times, including the post that I linked previously, the only anecdotal correlation that he's been able to make is to oil temperature, however, there is no real study performed to confirm.
 
#29 ·
I have wondered (Phil may have mentioned this) if there were issues with the cam installation lube. Perhaps Lotus' turnaround time was such that it's engines sat around for too long before being used and the lube migrated away. I used gobs of the stuff - about 6 ounces (CompCams cam and lifter installation lube) on my install and I think it is a critical step. And an easy one!

Jim C's write up is awesome. But did I miss the step about unlocking the intake cam gear before torquing it onto the new cam? I understand the pin might bind if you omit that step and then you won't be able to make the jump to the big lobes.

I have two oil coolers and buy into the oil temp thing, so will put in an oil temp gauge to be safer before jumping to the big lobes. Set my lash at 0.013. Just changed my oil to Mobil 1 truck/diesel 5w/40 synthetic AND put in two ounces of ZDDP additive.
 
#30 ·
An additional quote from Turbo Phil ...

"more is better on the cam spec, FWIW. 13 thou- 15 thou... all ok..."

I personally believe the root cause is tight valve clearance, there are other factors than can exacerbate the condition. Wiped cams are not a 2ZZ-GE exclusive. People have been wiping cams on all kinds of motors probably since the beginning of internal combustion. The first comment a seasoned engine builder will make about a wiped cam is "Valves are set too tight" - The 2ZZ may be more susceptible due to poor relative lubrication or high RPM use, or a combination of all the above along with a tight factory tolerance. I guess I would question why the exhaust cam is almost never affected - I don't think it is a coincidence that the valve clearance for the exhaust valves is much higher (.014-.018), and the exhaust cam is almost never affected.

FWIW -

1. I plan to set the intake cam valve clearance around .013.
2. I plan to use Mobil 1 5-40 "Turbo Diesel" oil which has very high levels of ZDDP.
3. I plan to stay off the big cam until the coolant temp shows as least 180 degrees.

I'm not sure what else you can do at this point but I'm open to suggestions.
 
#31 ·
Few things:

1) Just adding to the study here. How many oil coolers do you have?

2) You seem to be correlating 180F water temp to sufficient oil temp.

3) Maybe I'm readying the other replies wrong, but I believe they are pointing you in the direction of an oil temp gauge. I think that's one reasonable option for data... then you can wait and wait and wait a big longer for oil temps to get over 220F before you hit the loud pedal. That's if oil can ever get hot enough with your driving style and oil cooler arrangement...

4) Your beliefs are dating back a few years... Lash has been vetted.

5) The exhaust cam has a different life than the intake. The cam lobe design and the absence of a phaser are considerations.


Cheers,

Phil
 
#32 ·
It was a lot of work (for me) to put in a new cam and rockers, so I did order up an oil temp gauge (and pressure since I will be in there) as an added insurance measure. Pending that install, I always wait at least 20 minutes after the H2O temp is up (mine only goes over 189 if I am stuck in traffic) to let the oil catch up (per the good advice of GLB I believe), but the actual oil temp gauge will be much more scientific (and will look good - I got AEM gauges). If I don't like what I see, I'll cover one or both of the oil coolers (too lazy to remove them outright).

And do use cam installation lube.

BTW, I found measuring the lash to be the most difficult part of the install. A pair of mechanics gloves are useful to lift the rocker while inserting (pretty forcefully, I found) the gauge. An OEM #25349 gauge worked well for me. There was one nut on the coolant tank that was also a major PITA.

Phil, may I ask you a question? I thought I had read somewhere that there is a hole or two somewhere under the cams into which you would not want a small bit of metal (e.g., a top hat shim) falling. I couldn't see any such holes when I was in there but was definitely holding my breath when changing the shims. Just curious. Thanks.
 
#33 ·
To answer your questions:

1. One
2. No. Oil temp may lead or lag coolant temp depending on the application. In my Corvette it leads. In the Lotus, apparently it lags. Since I don't have an oil temp gauge I'm using the data I have.
3. Not sure. I don't have any experience with Lotus oil temps. I know I have seen 320 degrees in my Corvette on the track.
4. OK, that is certainly possible since I have been reading like crazy to educate myself on Cam wiping. So if it has been fully vetted, what is the conclusion ? I haven't read a thread that makes a definitive conclusion regarding valve clearance.
5. You are correct. I am also correct in that the exhaust cams have very little to no issues and the valve clearance is higher.

Regards,

T.
 
#34 ·
1. Good to know... Too bad no oil temp data :/

2/3. On one hand, you're committed to not having this issue again... on the other, you're speaking of using poor data in hand to resolve the problem. There's little reason for the oil temps to build with the coolers and capacity these cars have on the street... On the track, a different thing all together.

4. The lash theory, has issues when you really get down to studying the valvetrain... and I'll take some credit for it years back... it was too easy and just the wrong wrong direction to go. More lash to accommodate higher revs and a more growing valve. Outside, of that, it is what it needs to be.

5. Sure... and people in north dakota wear a coat in the winter and those in Florida do not. There's a reason for it. ;)

Cheers,

-Phil
 
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