Broken shifter-the next chapter - LotusTalk

Surferjer · 12-26-2004, 05:44 PM

No, it's not broken again. However, I did get a good look at the replacement and I'm none too happy. It looks like a natural break point is manufactured in right above the weld. I have attached pictures:

Surferjer · 12-26-2004, 05:47 PM

I'm painting the spine myself right now, that's why I'm in here.

Surferjer · 12-26-2004, 05:51 PM

See the bend right above the bracket? That's where it broke the first time. There's almost a manufactured "crimp" in the shifter. I'm going to try to get it welded before re-assembling so it's stronger. Rothrock tried to pin it all on me, and I may have contributed to the break, but there's a built in defect/problem as well.

I will be very surprised if we don't have more of these breaks...

Surferjer · 12-26-2004, 05:54 PM

Two more notes-yes, those are Stan's directions printed out on the floor, and yes, I re-swaged the cable lines too after these pictures were taken. I'm surprised Rothrock didn't get them straight to begin with, but maybe they torque off line.

This whole thread will probably be moved to the engine section, but I wanted the non-technical Elisetalk subscribers to be aware of this inherent issue...

offroadr35 · 12-26-2004, 05:58 PM

maybe this is an issue that shinoo can address somehow as he works towards a short shifter kit solution

Surferjer · 12-26-2004, 06:11 PM

I'd be interested for sure, despite the SCCA potential problems. I'd rather do that battle than have another borken shifter

MTPockets · 12-26-2004, 06:27 PM

As a somewhat interesting aside (to me at least) the first time I ever drove a Lotus it was a Europa in 1972. On my first shift from 1st to 2nd the shifter broke off in my hand. I know this is off topic and doesn’t fit in with the good info you’re giving here but I think about it every time I see a thread about your shifter problems.

Barney Jr · 12-26-2004, 06:28 PM

Given the leverage that does indeed look frightfully fragile.

I've never heard about this problem in the UK though, so either the cars as different or the ones breaking in the US are isolated problems rather than a design flaw

Stan · 12-26-2004, 07:01 PM

Looks very easy to reinforce for like 20 bucks by bringing it to a shop and showing them where to weld on some more metal.

ConeFusion · 12-26-2004, 08:34 PM

That does look like a flimsy shifter! Even if you might be shifting with more force than necessary, a shifter shouldn't break in half. I had never heard of that happening on other cars until I saw the reports here.

thegit · 12-27-2004, 04:06 AM

I'd have a shop evaluate the possibility of tack welding on a reinforcement plate.
For a temporary provision, I'd be tempted to add a plate on the engine side of that area and use several small hose clamps to cinch the plate to the shifter. Looks like there is enough room for at least one clamp below the bend point.

m

Surferjer · 12-27-2004, 06:10 AM

Great news for me. Working in a small business has its perks. My company has a full maintenance shop, and the head mechanic told me no problem to welding some more metal on. I'll have a sturdy shifter for no cost, exactly to my specs. Its good to be Controller/C.F.O.

Stan · 12-27-2004, 06:49 AM

>>>Great news for me. Working in a small business has its perks. My company has a full maintenance shop, and the head mechanic told me no problem to welding some more metal on. I'll have a sturdy shifter for no cost, exactly to my specs. Its good to be Controller/C.F.O.<<<

There ya go...just drive the car in without the console and let 'im at it. Then the lever will be bulletproof. Peace of mind!

fitfan · 12-27-2004, 07:01 AM

it would appear that by theory, if you move the linkage points to be higher on the angle of throw.. than the throw would be reduced (the linkage would get the same length of movement with less travel of the shifter) might not be that simple, but ...just a thought !

Genjuro · 12-27-2004, 07:06 AM

surfer.. you know it's all your fault. I saw you on WWF TV bending pipes with your bare hands.. We know you like to bend metal bars on windows just for fun. C'mon, admit it!

Surferjer · 12-27-2004, 07:11 AM

Found out, dammit. Yeah, I just pulled and pulled until the thing broke off. Me He-Man! uhhh!

Now I wonder if I'll need to dis-assemble for the weld or if they can do it right on the car sans the reverse release cable?

Stan · 12-27-2004, 07:11 AM

>>>it would appear that by theory, if you move the linkage points to be higher on the angle of throw.. than the throw would be reduced (the linkage would get the same length of movement with less travel of the shifter) might not be that simple, but ...just a thought !<<<

Yes, true. The upper cable is front to back as in 1-2 shifting. The lower cable moves you sideways across the gate.

If you raise the height of the upper cable pivot this will reduce shift travel proportionate to the change in dimensions. But at some point you'll also run into clearance issues with the console cover.

I often shift my Elise holding onto the shaft under the ball. Grabbing the boot pretty much. The location of the e-brake lever complicates this a bit. This gives a sense of a quick shift action.

peck555 · 12-27-2004, 08:45 AM

I know that this is off topic,but,what does the "E"in e-brake stand for?

Surferjer · 12-27-2004, 08:49 AM

e=emergency. I don't know why.

NMRJock · 12-27-2004, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Surferjer
e=emergency. I don't know why.

Then you haven't/don't drive cars as junky as I have/do...

12-26-2004, 05:44 PM	#1 (permalink)
Surferjer No more cone damage! Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Exton, PA Posts: 8,954	Broken shifter-the next chapter No, it's not broken again. However, I did get a good look at the replacement and I'm none too happy. It looks like a natural break point is manufactured in right above the weld. I have attached pictures: Attached Images __________________ Jer-2005 Elise (retired from autox) 1993 MR2 autox car 2002 Ford Excursion DIESEL 4 X 4 1993 Miata (throwout bearing or clutch failure) 1987 Toyota Corolla FX16 Lemons car (needs new head) 1984 Chevy Citation Lemons car (needs a motor)

12-26-2004, 05:47 PM	#2 (permalink)
Surferjer No more cone damage! Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Exton, PA Posts: 8,954	I'm painting the spine myself right now, that's why I'm in here. Attached Images __________________ Jer-2005 Elise (retired from autox) 1993 MR2 autox car 2002 Ford Excursion DIESEL 4 X 4 1993 Miata (throwout bearing or clutch failure) 1987 Toyota Corolla FX16 Lemons car (needs new head) 1984 Chevy Citation Lemons car (needs a motor)

12-26-2004, 05:51 PM	#3 (permalink)
Surferjer No more cone damage! Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Exton, PA Posts: 8,954	See the bend right above the bracket? That's where it broke the first time. There's almost a manufactured "crimp" in the shifter. I'm going to try to get it welded before re-assembling so it's stronger. Rothrock tried to pin it all on me, and I may have contributed to the break, but there's a built in defect/problem as well. I will be very surprised if we don't have more of these breaks... Attached Images __________________ Jer-2005 Elise (retired from autox) 1993 MR2 autox car 2002 Ford Excursion DIESEL 4 X 4 1993 Miata (throwout bearing or clutch failure) 1987 Toyota Corolla FX16 Lemons car (needs new head) 1984 Chevy Citation Lemons car (needs a motor)

12-26-2004, 05:54 PM	#4 (permalink)
Surferjer No more cone damage! Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Exton, PA Posts: 8,954	Two more notes-yes, those are Stan's directions printed out on the floor, and yes, I re-swaged the cable lines too after these pictures were taken. I'm surprised Rothrock didn't get them straight to begin with, but maybe they torque off line. This whole thread will probably be moved to the engine section, but I wanted the non-technical Elisetalk subscribers to be aware of this inherent issue... __________________ Jer-2005 Elise (retired from autox) 1993 MR2 autox car 2002 Ford Excursion DIESEL 4 X 4 1993 Miata (throwout bearing or clutch failure) 1987 Toyota Corolla FX16 Lemons car (needs new head) 1984 Chevy Citation Lemons car (needs a motor)

12-26-2004, 06:11 PM	#6 (permalink)
Surferjer No more cone damage! Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Exton, PA Posts: 8,954	I'd be interested for sure, despite the SCCA potential problems. I'd rather do that battle than have another borken shifter __________________ Jer-2005 Elise (retired from autox) 1993 MR2 autox car 2002 Ford Excursion DIESEL 4 X 4 1993 Miata (throwout bearing or clutch failure) 1987 Toyota Corolla FX16 Lemons car (needs new head) 1984 Chevy Citation Lemons car (needs a motor)

12-26-2004, 05:58 PM	#5 (permalink)
offroadr35 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Beverly Hills Posts: 1,256	maybe this is an issue that shinoo can address somehow as he works towards a short shifter kit solution

12-26-2004, 06:27 PM	#7 (permalink)
MTPockets Registered User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Florabama Posts: 26	As a somewhat interesting aside (to me at least) the first time I ever drove a Lotus it was a Europa in 1972. On my first shift from 1st to 2nd the shifter broke off in my hand. I know this is off topic and doesn’t fit in with the good info you’re giving here but I think about it every time I see a thread about your shifter problems. __________________ MTPockets

12-26-2004, 06:28 PM	#8 (permalink)
Barney Jr MR2 Mk1a Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Veenendaal, the Netherlands Posts: 304	Given the leverage that does indeed look frightfully fragile. I've never heard about this problem in the UK though, so either the cars as different or the ones breaking in the US are isolated problems rather than a design flaw

12-26-2004, 07:01 PM	#9 (permalink)
Stan - Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 6,947	Looks very easy to reinforce for like 20 bucks by bringing it to a shop and showing them where to weld on some more metal.

12-26-2004, 08:34 PM	#10 (permalink)
ConeFusion Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 1,579	That does look like a flimsy shifter! Even if you might be shifting with more force than necessary, a shifter shouldn't break in half. I had never heard of that happening on other cars until I saw the reports here. __________________ Reto 2005 Lotus Elise (yellow, sport pack), #94 SS 2005 Nissan Xterra (LSV)

12-27-2004, 04:06 AM	#11 (permalink)
thegit Registered User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Iowa. Posts: 1,078	I'd have a shop evaluate the possibility of tack welding on a reinforcement plate. For a temporary provision, I'd be tempted to add a plate on the engine side of that area and use several small hose clamps to cinch the plate to the shifter. Looks like there is enough room for at least one clamp below the bend point. m Last edited by thegit : 12-27-2004 at 04:10 AM.

12-27-2004, 06:10 AM	#12 (permalink)
Surferjer No more cone damage! Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Exton, PA Posts: 8,954	Great news for me. Working in a small business has its perks. My company has a full maintenance shop, and the head mechanic told me no problem to welding some more metal on. I'll have a sturdy shifter for no cost, exactly to my specs. Its good to be Controller/C.F.O. __________________ Jer-2005 Elise (retired from autox) 1993 MR2 autox car 2002 Ford Excursion DIESEL 4 X 4 1993 Miata (throwout bearing or clutch failure) 1987 Toyota Corolla FX16 Lemons car (needs new head) 1984 Chevy Citation Lemons car (needs a motor)

12-27-2004, 06:49 AM	#13 (permalink)
Stan - Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 6,947	>>>Great news for me. Working in a small business has its perks. My company has a full maintenance shop, and the head mechanic told me no problem to welding some more metal on. I'll have a sturdy shifter for no cost, exactly to my specs. Its good to be Controller/C.F.O.<<< There ya go...just drive the car in without the console and let 'im at it. Then the lever will be bulletproof. Peace of mind!

12-27-2004, 07:01 AM	#14 (permalink)
fitfan Regurgitated User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: San Diego! Posts: 4,163	it would appear that by theory, if you move the linkage points to be higher on the angle of throw.. than the throw would be reduced (the linkage would get the same length of movement with less travel of the shifter) might not be that simple, but ...just a thought !

12-27-2004, 07:06 AM	#15 (permalink)
Genjuro On the other side. Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: limbo Posts: 1,352	surfer.. you know it's all your fault. I saw you on WWF TV bending pipes with your bare hands.. We know you like to bend metal bars on windows just for fun. C'mon, admit it! __________________ -- Find me in the fields of Elysium.

12-27-2004, 08:45 AM	#18 (permalink)
peck555 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: White Plains N.Y. Posts: 2,439	I know that this is off topic,but,what does the "E"in e-brake stand for? __________________ Laser blue,biscuit, micro mirror, "Blue knob" ,HID lights,modded rear lights,rear badge,blue starter button, replaced speakers,perma grin, Club111 The Sith lord of the LB's loyal henchman

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12-27-2004, 07:11 AM	#16 (permalink)
Surferjer No more cone damage! Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Exton, PA Posts: 8,954	Found out, dammit. Yeah, I just pulled and pulled until the thing broke off. Me He-Man! uhhh! Now I wonder if I'll need to dis-assemble for the weld or if they can do it right on the car sans the reverse release cable? __________________ Jer-2005 Elise (retired from autox) 1993 MR2 autox car 2002 Ford Excursion DIESEL 4 X 4 1993 Miata (throwout bearing or clutch failure) 1987 Toyota Corolla FX16 Lemons car (needs new head) 1984 Chevy Citation Lemons car (needs a motor)

12-27-2004, 07:11 AM	#17 (permalink)
Stan - Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 6,947	>>>it would appear that by theory, if you move the linkage points to be higher on the angle of throw.. than the throw would be reduced (the linkage would get the same length of movement with less travel of the shifter) might not be that simple, but ...just a thought !<<< Yes, true. The upper cable is front to back as in 1-2 shifting. The lower cable moves you sideways across the gate. If you raise the height of the upper cable pivot this will reduce shift travel proportionate to the change in dimensions. But at some point you'll also run into clearance issues with the console cover. I often shift my Elise holding onto the shaft under the ball. Grabbing the boot pretty much. The location of the e-brake lever complicates this a bit. This gives a sense of a quick shift action.

12-27-2004, 08:49 AM	#19 (permalink)
Surferjer No more cone damage! Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Exton, PA Posts: 8,954	e=emergency. I don't know why. __________________ Jer-2005 Elise (retired from autox) 1993 MR2 autox car 2002 Ford Excursion DIESEL 4 X 4 1993 Miata (throwout bearing or clutch failure) 1987 Toyota Corolla FX16 Lemons car (needs new head) 1984 Chevy Citation Lemons car (needs a motor)