Cam Change Over (is it happening?) - LotusTalk

davecarama · 08-20-2008, 07:13 AM

Yesterday, I noticed my cam change over felt almost non existant. It was certainly not due to warm-up of the car, I sat in traffic about an hour before I got onto the highway and was able to hit the gas.

So my questions:
-Is there already a thread on this? I searched, but I suck at searching and litterally came up with nothing
- Is this a known issue (is it even an issue)
- Is there an easy way to check/test to see if everything is working as it should?

I JUST brought my car to the dealer on Friday and would hate to have to bring it back so soon.

Thnaks all!

AlanS · 08-20-2008, 08:09 AM

I experienced this, but after expericneing and resetting the now infamous P1302 code. The broken rocker arm was bleeding the hydraulic pressure it needed for the cam switch. Hope that's not your problem.

jallingt · 08-20-2008, 11:57 AM

Do you have a CEL?
Is your rev limiter and red tel-tale coming on at a certain RPM?

davecarama · 08-20-2008, 01:39 PM

No CEL/MIL

I will check on the Telltale

Frik... I hope it is not a bad motor... that would certainly suck balls...

Shawn C · 08-20-2008, 01:40 PM

Any bolts in a tin can sounds?

davecarama · 08-20-2008, 01:46 PM

Yes, that is why I brought it to the dealer on Friday... I thought it was exhaust or AC compressor...

It is only when I am stopped and just start to get moving in first. Never any other time.

Guess I will be going back tomorrow?

Smoky · 08-20-2008, 02:29 PM

Keep us updated on what the dealer finds.

Smoky · 08-20-2008, 02:35 PM

Does anyone have audio of the changeover? I've often wondered if mine is changing over as well. I have no codes, no symptoms. Redline is normal. But I remember my old Integra had a VERY distinct changeover (intake and exhaust pitch would change quite a bit). The Lotus, not so much. I suspect it is changing, but may just be a lot smoother of a transition than the old Honda VTEC.

def · 08-20-2008, 02:39 PM

Yep it is early and much more subtle (and earlier) on the S's. On the n/a elises it is easily noticed

Smoky · 08-20-2008, 02:42 PM

Ok. That makes sense.

Found a couple track vids of the S... you really can't hear it change. For example:

YouTube - Azmir & Alex Yoong in Lotus Exige S at Sepang F1 Circuit

(though this guy does seem to shift a little early sometimes)

Amarao · 08-20-2008, 03:00 PM

Don't you S guys stay on 2nd cam when you shift? I know my NA only goes back onto the first cam briefly when I'm really pushing it.

Icedog_16 · 08-20-2008, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by def

Yep it is early and much more subtle (and earlier) on the S's. On the n/a elises it is easily noticed

It is unless you have the Lotus Sport ECU or Sector's ecuFlash2. The changeover around 5700 rpm gets rid of the dip in between the two cams, so you don't get that kick in the pants feeling of the regular NA cars. Same thing goes for the S's, except that changeover's even lower, IIRC.

SKYVUE · 08-20-2008, 03:38 PM

6 months ago, the transition to 2nd cam was NOT noticeable at all. Many times, at 6200 RRM and above. there was NO abrupt response! Now, the 2nd cam is very noticeable again, when I purchased the Elise. I can't tell what I did to remedy it.

I did remove the snorkel, though. Could THAT do it?

The next air filter will be the the "Green" air filter. I've heard that could increase the 2nd cam response....

--Hal

Icedog_16 · 08-20-2008, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SKYVUE

6 months ago, the transition to 2nd cam was NOT noticeable at all. Many times, at 6200 RRM and above. there was NO abrupt response! Now, the 2nd cam is very noticeable again, when I purchased the Elise. I can't tell what I did to remedy it.

I did remove the snorkel, though. Could THAT do it?

The next air filter will be the the "Green" air filter. I've heard that could increase the 2nd cam response....

--Hal

It's probably more of an aural (oral?

) thing than anything else.

davecarama · 08-21-2008, 08:11 AM

Hmm...

Just got a call from Criswell. They said the shop foreman says all systems are working as designed.

In my car, I have always been able to FEEL the cam change, now it is smooth as butter from oRPM to redline any changeover is unnoticable. The guy that called said the foreman took the car on a test drive and all systems worked properly.

So, when I go pick up the car, they offored up me going on another drive with the guy.

- Should I take them up on it? or should I say thanks and bolt outta there?
- Are there other tests that can see this is happening and diagnose what it is (hooking up to computers, etc)
- Am I a pansy ass that should just shut up and enjoy my toy?
- I am due for an oil change nowish, would that do it/help?

I figured bringing it in was better safe than sorry. What do you think something like this will cost? 1 hr time? Free (under warrenty)?

Ugggg.

Dave

charliex · 08-21-2008, 09:01 AM

if its a regular NA car with the stock lotus cam change at 6200 you should feel it.

the torque response will feel really flat without the cam change.

it can be a difficult one to feel properly on the cars with smooth changes, but the NA car should feel very lethargic.

on the S its a very smooth change, but since the S has load dependant switching, you can still get the 6200 bump by not getting on the power and just slowly bring up the revs, same goes for the katanas.

you should be able to see a dip in the airflow/air fuel when it switches to cam, so if you have a wideband installed or just use a tech 3 or datalogger, you'll see a pronounced down them up, the fuel will do that even if it doesn't switch since its altered for the switch, but i'll be less pronounced but the airflow will be more linear without it. Take a look at some of the dyno sheets on here to see what to expect.

also if you have an aftermarket exhaust, you ought to hear the change.

best of luck

Cardinal · 08-21-2008, 09:10 AM

You know, I once suspected my 2nd cam wasn't working properly. This came at a time when I was driving the Lotus everyday, and leaving my other car to sit for a month at a time. My 2nd cam seemed to be back to functioning properly after I took my Civic for a drive. By all means get it checked and re-checked, but don't be surprised if it turns out that you just got way too used to it. I hope that's the issue.

davecarama · 08-21-2008, 09:13 AM

Only mod to my car is the K&N filter (and I did that for $ savings rather than performance chnages).

Also, it is a totally NA 05 Elise.

I plan on going back to Criswell at 1 today. I will respond back then.

Thanks again everyone for your replies.

Also, CharlieX, I thought you had to be WOT to have the cam change, is that not true? If not, I am certain mine was not switching.

Icedog_16 · 08-21-2008, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davecarama

Also, CharlieX, I thought you had to be WOT to have the cam change, is that not true? If not, I am certain mine was not switching.

Nope. Don't have to be WOT. Just have to be at 6200 rpm.

davecarama · 08-21-2008, 09:18 AM

OK, Thanks.

And it would be more pronounced at a slower speed or smoother (less noticable)?

08-20-2008, 07:13 AM	#1 (permalink)
davecarama Driving it every day! Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 631	Cam Change Over (is it happening?) Yesterday, I noticed my cam change over felt almost non existant. It was certainly not due to warm-up of the car, I sat in traffic about an hour before I got onto the highway and was able to hit the gas. So my questions: -Is there already a thread on this? I searched, but I suck at searching and litterally came up with nothing - Is this a known issue (is it even an issue) - Is there an easy way to check/test to see if everything is working as it should? I JUST brought my car to the dealer on Friday and would hate to have to bring it back so soon. Thnaks all! __________________ Vision without execution is a hallucination.

08-20-2008, 08:09 AM	#2 (permalink)
AlanS Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Weston, CT and Sheffield, MA Posts: 567	I experienced this, but after expericneing and resetting the now infamous P1302 code. The broken rocker arm was bleeding the hydraulic pressure it needed for the cam switch. Hope that's not your problem. __________________ Alan '05 Elise, Magnetic Blue

08-20-2008, 11:57 AM	#3 (permalink)
jallingt Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 430	Do you have a CEL? Is your rev limiter and red tel-tale coming on at a certain RPM? __________________ 2005 Bordeaux Met #21 (HT, Touring, Quicksilver ext, TRM F1 wheels, Stan Stud, HID lights, BWR S/C,Filled motor mounts, catch can) 2004 Audi S4 Sedan (Tip, GAIC Chip, AWE Cat-back, Team Dyanmics Pro 1.2 wheels) 2002 F-350 (Powerstroke, 4x4, Banks power pack, 6th alternator) Couple nice bicycles, way too many snow skis.

08-20-2008, 01:39 PM	#4 (permalink)
davecarama Driving it every day! Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 631	No CEL/MIL I will check on the Telltale Frik... I hope it is not a bad motor... that would certainly suck balls... __________________ Vision without execution is a hallucination.

08-20-2008, 01:40 PM	#5 (permalink)
Shawn C Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 1,326	Any bolts in a tin can sounds? __________________ 06 Exige Ph Black/Black, 2bular 7", Von Hep Rear Panel delete, Green Filter, Snorkel delete, Xenons, Scroth belts, Carbon Rear view mirror, Binnacle, Console, Cup Roof and Rear Diffuser. Sector Extinguisher, Nitron Singles, Sector Rotors, R4's, BWR front Sway Bar, Weapon R Header and De-Cat, BWR Super Charger PCA, PBOC, Chin DE Instructor.

08-20-2008, 01:46 PM	#6 (permalink)
davecarama Driving it every day! Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 631	Yes, that is why I brought it to the dealer on Friday... I thought it was exhaust or AC compressor... It is only when I am stopped and just start to get moving in first. Never any other time. Guess I will be going back tomorrow? __________________ Vision without execution is a hallucination.

08-20-2008, 02:29 PM	#7 (permalink)
Smoky Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Lafayette, LA Posts: 395	Keep us updated on what the dealer finds. __________________ -Smoky '07 Exige S, Chrome Orange, Track/Touring, LSD, Starshield, 2Bular 8x24, S111 Ultra Discs

08-20-2008, 02:35 PM	#8 (permalink)
Smoky Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Lafayette, LA Posts: 395	Does anyone have audio of the changeover? I've often wondered if mine is changing over as well. I have no codes, no symptoms. Redline is normal. But I remember my old Integra had a VERY distinct changeover (intake and exhaust pitch would change quite a bit). The Lotus, not so much. I suspect it is changing, but may just be a lot smoother of a transition than the old Honda VTEC. __________________ -Smoky '07 Exige S, Chrome Orange, Track/Touring, LSD, Starshield, 2Bular 8x24, S111 Ultra Discs

08-20-2008, 02:39 PM	#9 (permalink)
def ...ault Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 2,108	Yep it is early and much more subtle (and earlier) on the S's. On the n/a elises it is easily noticed __________________ //kevin - 05 Graphite Gray - Red Touring / LSS / Starshield / Stage 2 + more

08-20-2008, 03:00 PM	#11 (permalink)
Amarao Hoon Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Colorado Posts: 882	Don't you S guys stay on 2nd cam when you shift? I know my NA only goes back onto the first cam briefly when I'm really pushing it.

08-20-2008, 03:38 PM	#13 (permalink)
SKYVUE SKYVUE Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Thousand Oaks, CA Posts: 1,741 Images: 1	Sporatic 2nd Cam Response 6 months ago, the transition to 2nd cam was NOT noticeable at all. Many times, at 6200 RRM and above. there was NO abrupt response! Now, the 2nd cam is very noticeable again, when I purchased the Elise. I can't tell what I did to remedy it. I did remove the snorkel, though. Could THAT do it? The next air filter will be the the "Green" air filter. I've heard that could increase the 2nd cam response.... --Hal __________________ --SKYVUE, '05 Elise SY (I love that car too!) Resident Astronomer

08-21-2008, 08:11 AM	#15 (permalink)
davecarama Driving it every day! Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 631	Hmm... Just got a call from Criswell. They said the shop foreman says all systems are working as designed. In my car, I have always been able to FEEL the cam change, now it is smooth as butter from oRPM to redline any changeover is unnoticable. The guy that called said the foreman took the car on a test drive and all systems worked properly. So, when I go pick up the car, they offored up me going on another drive with the guy. - Should I take them up on it? or should I say thanks and bolt outta there? - Are there other tests that can see this is happening and diagnose what it is (hooking up to computers, etc) - Am I a pansy ass that should just shut up and enjoy my toy? - I am due for an oil change nowish, would that do it/help? I figured bringing it in was better safe than sorry. What do you think something like this will cost? 1 hr time? Free (under warrenty)? Ugggg. Dave __________________ Vision without execution is a hallucination.

08-21-2008, 09:01 AM	#16 (permalink)
charliex disproving HD MTBF daily Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Las Vegas , NV Posts: 8,290	if its a regular NA car with the stock lotus cam change at 6200 you should feel it. the torque response will feel really flat without the cam change. it can be a difficult one to feel properly on the cars with smooth changes, but the NA car should feel very lethargic. on the S its a very smooth change, but since the S has load dependant switching, you can still get the 6200 bump by not getting on the power and just slowly bring up the revs, same goes for the katanas. you should be able to see a dip in the airflow/air fuel when it switches to cam, so if you have a wideband installed or just use a tech 3 or datalogger, you'll see a pronounced down them up, the fuel will do that even if it doesn't switch since its altered for the switch, but i'll be less pronounced but the airflow will be more linear without it. Take a look at some of the dyno sheets on here to see what to expect. also if you have an aftermarket exhaust, you ought to hear the change. best of luck __________________ Black Exige S - http://goth.am 265 Mule / Elan M100 ECU Tuning, http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39660 Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling with a pig in mud. After a while, you realise the pig is enjoying it.

08-21-2008, 09:10 AM	#17 (permalink)
Cardinal Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Metro North Boston Posts: 3,000 Images: 5	You know, I once suspected my 2nd cam wasn't working properly. This came at a time when I was driving the Lotus everyday, and leaving my other car to sit for a month at a time. My 2nd cam seemed to be back to functioning properly after I took my Civic for a drive. By all means get it checked and re-checked, but don't be surprised if it turns out that you just got way too used to it. I hope that's the issue. __________________ '05 SY Elise TP, HT, LSS, Arqray singletip, #307

08-21-2008, 09:13 AM	#18 (permalink)
davecarama Driving it every day! Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 631	Only mod to my car is the K&N filter (and I did that for $ savings rather than performance chnages). Also, it is a totally NA 05 Elise. I plan on going back to Criswell at 1 today. I will respond back then. Thanks again everyone for your replies. Also, CharlieX, I thought you had to be WOT to have the cam change, is that not true? If not, I am certain mine was not switching. __________________ Vision without execution is a hallucination.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

08-21-2008, 09:18 AM	#20 (permalink)
davecarama Driving it every day! Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 631	OK, Thanks. And it would be more pronounced at a slower speed or smoother (less noticable)? __________________ Vision without execution is a hallucination.